OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Down The Drain

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DanielPlainview

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Apr 28, 2009
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The mindset now seems to be to hold onto prospects. No one is sending hauls out for anyone, closers or otherwise. The Pirates may have been the only team in the league who still thought that way, then they got burned in the Archer trade. For now, those times seem over. Best be prepared for one elite prospect and a couple high risk/high reward types for Vazquez . The only thing I could see changing that is the Dodgers losing the WS because of a weak bullpen.
 
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Winger for Hire

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The mindset now seems to be to hold onto prospects. No one is sending hauls out for anyone, closers or otherwise. The Pirates may have been the only team in the league who still thought that way, then they got burned in the Archer trade. For now, those times seem over. Best be prepared for one elite prospect and a couple high risk/high reward types for Vazquez .

Grienke brought back a haul... Realmuto brought back a haul... Bauer (despite not being near elite) brought back a haul... Marcus Stroman brought back a small haul... Goldschmidt brought back a deceptively big haul, despite media shitting on it at the time... Paxton brought a haul that some wanted for Cole.

And it slipped my mind earlier, but Edwin Diaz brought back a haul that would rival Lux+... Kelenic and Dunn.

That's within a calendar year and three of those happening last month.
 

Empoleon8771

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You'd 100% get a haul of prospects in exchange for Vasquez, but it may just be Ruiz and some lesser prospects (guys like Gonsolin, Downs or White) and not Ruiz and May or Lux. If push came to shove, I'd ultimately take the first package assuming I'm still getting good value. If I can get at least Ruiz, Gonsolin and Downs from LA, I'd probably move him. I'd still ask for more, but I'd ultimately settle on that kind of package.
 

DanielPlainview

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Grienke brought back a haul... Realmuto brought back a haul... Bauer (despite not being near elite) brought back a haul... Marcus Stroman brought back a small haul... Goldschmidt brought back a deceptively big haul, despite media ****ting on it at the time... Paxton brought a haul that some wanted for Cole.

And it slipped my mind earlier, but Edwin Diaz brought back a haul that would rival Lux+... Kelenic and Dunn.

That's within a calendar year and three of those happening last month.

I guess our definitions of a haul are different
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Alot can depend on how the playoffs go. Lets leave the Dodgers out of it for now and say a team like the Twins surprise in the playoffs yet lack that type of dominant closer that would make a difference which goes for As, Indians, Nats( already had him but that shouldnt prevent...should do oppo imo, they have some great young players and kinda like our 3 years straight of getting nothing out of it...and also have a horrible pen), and possibly even the Yanks, Rays, and Braves.

Some of these teams have "closers" but nobody on the level of Vaz and if they come up short, when asking themselves what kind of move would it take to increase odds for next season....adding Vazquez(and moving current closer to set up man) is a viable solution for all of them.

Think it just depends on how close a team thinks they are to winning it all. We'll see with Atlanta and how Kimbrel/Melancon do. Since they have great young starters. If no bueno with their pen in playoffs maybe they decide to step up and go for Vaz not only preventing the Dodgers from adding but making themselves that much better.

I would require RHP Ian Anderson and the teams choice of either one of CF Drew Waters/Christian Pache tho. However if this past drafts 9th overall pick Catcher Shea Langeliers starts developing his bat id substitute him over one of the CFs, making it easier on them. Since I know they are dying for an OF of basically 3 CFs all out there at once. They are gonna be stacked on offense. Someone like Vaz is exactly what they need.

Do they wanna be like the 90s Braves and aleays be there but never win or the Yanks who had Mariano Rivera( Felipe was known as Rivero not too long ago).

Jokes aside, the fact that the trade to Dodgers didnt go thru has actually increased Vazquez' value....dude is becoming a legend now. So many tuning in to eatch him pitch . We are used to seeing him dominate guys like Harper on that K last night but those who havent seen much of Pirates are really hyping him up now. Media outlets as well.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Keller responded well after that leadoff triple with a 7 pitch K to Segura. But now falls into his usual problem he's had up here, letting up too many singles in a row.

There's something there a good pitching coach would fix.

Btw Lyles with another win and 1ER to go with 9Ks lol

So far not bad at all for Mitch. 3 IP 6H 3ER 6K

Go 2 scoreless now . He def has no problem getting Ks....using both the curve and Slider.
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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keller helping searage bolster his case

What case?

And I dont think NH is out of touch with the game.....he has to be well aware of the pitchers who have left here and became much better. Him being the GM, that's who it falls on. How many more examples does he need?

Keller needs to locate his fastball better but hes shown flashes he has what it takes. And rarely agree with Hurdle but he was right about the new ball. This is the worst year for rookie pitchers to come up. Yeah same ball in AAA but not nearly the same talent.

Its going to ruin so many pitchers confidence and development going forward. Every Rookie pitcher I've seen called up this year thats in the top 100 got abused. Braves sent their guys back down(Bryse Wilson, Kyle Wright I believe). Dustin May blew up in one inning letting up 2 HRs and 5 runs. Sheffield just got called up tonight and let up 6 runs.


The list goes on and on. They just have to be patient. If anything, tell them to look at Giolito. Went from looking like he would never pan out to one of the best pitchers in the league this year. Would have been nice if NH got him as our" reclamation project" that I believe DJ kept bringing up
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Kelly Jansen another blown save. Lead off double. Runner advanced on flyout.

Throws the ball in Ricky Vaughn fashion going 10 feet over Russell Marrin, tying the game. Another blown save.

Maybe Lux can close
 

NewAgeOutlaw

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There are only 2 players in the Rockies' regular lineup that would have a chance of cracking a starting lineup playing in any other major league city.

They have a few guys, like Murphy, who could be bench players outside of Colorado.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Pirates will sweep Rockies. Col tanking(now that they are out of it). Sent 4 of 5 starters to IL.

We are 7th overall(draft) and they are only 2 games back now. Will pass us aftee this series.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Pirates minor league system almost done. High A was canceled to end season. Alot of players had great season's..

Greensboro about to win again(11-1) putting them 22 games above .500. Lost players all year to high A and replaced with ease. Allowing Jonah Davis(19th HR tonight), Jack Herman(15 HRS), Bae(all around fantastic season and could be voted mvp of the year), to go with the great pitching. Grant Koch( a catcher drafted last year) with 3 HRs tonight is a surprise...like every other C we drafted hes been a disappointment so far. We'll see if that gets him going.

DSL 2 Pirates lost their first playoff game. They had 5 players named all stars. Umana one of them who had bis worst start of year...

DSL D-backs2 vs. DSL Pirates2 Box Score | 08/30/19

Hopefully bounce back and take thw series. I want them to win title(after going 56-16) and create some hype over there possibly getting some of the higher end kids to sign with us

5 Bucs prospects named Dominican All-Stars

Randy Romero voted player of the year. Alexander Mojica has been talked about already and comps to Miggy Cabrera.


Bristol comes back and scores 3 in the 8th to win their first playoff game 5-4. Team has some good prospects too.


Just an overall encouraging season from the whole system.
 

NewAgeOutlaw

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To be fair, those 3 are all <.800 ops players playing outside of Coors.

This video breaks down the flaws with Major League Baseball pretty well. The channel is run by a Pittsburgh sports fan.

 

Jaded-Fan

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Milwaukee apparently saved the Pirates from being the Pirates by mixing a deal for a player the Pirates now can get for free if they choose.

 

Beauner

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this could set up a nice Onion-esque headline.

"Pirates franchise fired in Pittsburgh. Interesting thread here from owner Bob Nutting. Sounds like city didn't like the culture he created."

"I don't know what to say right now. I'm just sort of confused", said Nutting. "I wasn't even aware the city could fire us"
 

Empoleon8771

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Considering how **** the Pirates player development has been in recent years, it's hard to fault them for firing any individual manager in their minor league system. I think Newman and Reynolds are the only significant players today that were on Ryan's Altoona teams. Getting only 1 good young player a year from your minor league system is insanely bad for a team that's supposedly rebuilding/retooling.
 

Winger for Hire

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Firing just the AA manager seems weird though. At the very least you'd think you'd fire from that level on up (Altoona and Indy's managers). I guess maybe they've traced back player failures to Altoona? Which would be slightly weird since it's been a fairly successful affiliate and he's only been there three seasons with 70+ wins all three seasons. I dunno.

I also find it hard to single out a sole manager in the system that's near the end of player development. He can only work with players that are being given to him. I'd feel better if it was a cleansing system wide fire, not just a single manager, especially one who has been successfully promoted up the organization (from A in 2013 to A+ in 2015 to AA in 2017). He helped develop Bell and Glasnow, Meadows, Jacoby Jones in WV, followed a couple up to Bradenton and also helped Tucker, Kramer, Luplow, Reyes, Brault, Santana.
 

Big McLargehuge

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Yes, the AA manager was the one making the toxic environment and not the executives and ownership who don't care about putting a winning product on the field. Brilliant logic as usual from the ship of fools.
 
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