OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Apollo, you wanna to ring the Bell?

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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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I don't really think the losing streak has much to do with Hurdle or something even more abstract like players not buying in. I think it has to do with depth-destroying injuries, an offense that was already not very good to begin with, and bad defense. Thin margin for error already diminished, some bad bounces, and then the best team in the NL.

Hurdle shouldn't really have a job, but this team is built for this kind of thing to happen to it, and it's made worse by being decimated by injuries.

The next stretch will be very crucial.
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
16,755
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The Low Country, SC
So I went back and read through the forum the day of the Archer trade last year and I hate to have to bring this up, but some of you need to apologize. Not because you were wrong, we all are at times, but it's how demeaning you all were with people who called the trade terrible.

Thank you
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,860
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Oblivion Express
So I went back and read through the forum the day of the Archer trade last year and I hate to have to bring this up, but some of you need to apologize. Not because you were wrong, we all are at times, but it's how demeaning you all were with people who called the trade terrible.

Thank you

Welcome to the internet age.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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What a difference a ten game stretch can make. I can't imagine anyone is much more interested in reading about this than I am writing about it, but for the sake of sticking to some kind of consistency, here's the tldr version of the spiel I did before this stretch:

So, tldr; :

A follow-up 7-3 stretch seems like the absolute best case scenario, and is possible as long as we can forge through this Giants series, and, I think especially Game 1, since it could set a tone for the rest of the homestand. If we win the Giants series, then I think we're in ok shape to at least do a 4-6 tread water without losing serious ground (split the DBacks, lose to the Dodgers). If we lose the Giants series, then 3-1 in the DBacks series will be crucial for keeping that 4-6 stretch as a worst case scenario.

Even though there will be caveats, I think these next 10 games will tell us a lot. Homestand needs to go 4-3 at least, and hopefully 5-2, which sets us up for a pretty solid shot at 6-4, which is the record that I'll be very happy with if we can manage it over this stretch. That would put us at 16-10 overall, which would be a really nice figure for the first sorta month of the year.

We were in very good shape, with a chance to hopefully do a little bit more damage in anticipation of getting some of our regulars back for good. Instead, we got our asses handed to us and are in a free fall right now with no real end in sight. Polanco has returned and looks alright at the plate, but his defense seems like he will give back any value he manages to give. Marte has been hurt, although it appears he will return Tuesday or soon after. Dickerson has suffered a setback, Reynolds has been called up but tweaked his quad. Basically anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

And that's not even mentioning the biggest gutshot of them all, which was Burdi going down.

On the positive end of things, we have more and more evidence that Bell has taken his game to another level. Reynolds looks like he can be an everyday contributor at the MLB level right now, as does Tucker. Kela and RichRod seem to be mostly fixed, in what amounts to kind of a cruel joke: before this week, we were cruising, and all we really had to worry about was whether these kinds would give up a HR in a low scoring game that we're winning.

On the negative side of things, there's a laundry list right now, and I won't spend too much time going through it, in part because I think all the injuries have made it difficult to do too much in evaluating the team, and in part because individuals don't make the team. But the 3B spot has gone downhill, Frazier has begun to underperform (although his defense has become consistent), and neither Archer nor Taillon seem to get the whiffs they need (although in Archer's case, it appears as though it was due to injury).

Things aren't good, and we've given back any good feeling from the start and then some. Right now, we just need a win of any kind to stop the bleeding, and then hopefully we can work towards a better 10-game stretch. It is maybe worth mentioning that the Brewers have been just about as bad as we have lately, and that the true key is not to allow this 2-8 stretch to turn into a 4-16 stretch, because that's going to be impossible to really come back from.

So looking ahead, we really need to at least save some face and keep our record right around .500, find our footing, and see what this team might be capable of if/when people get healthy and we're firing on all cylinders. There's not an even way to break things up, but I think we can treat the next 11 games as a pretty massive stretch. We finish this road trip vs. Texas (2), then back home for Oakland (3), Texas again (2), and finally the start of a very tough road trip with St. Louis (4).

There's no way around it: we need some offense to show up at a decent clip. Texas especially doesn't have very good starting pitching, and it just feels like we need some quick wins to just have a moment to breathe. I don't think it's being overdramatic to say that this stretch will be crucial if we don't want to end up in a 8 game or worse hole that will take us three months to dig out of.

Already too many words within this disaster, spinning around points we all basically know. I think best case scenario, we can use this off day to catch a breath, and then effectively win both series vs the Rangers and Athletics (split one of the Rangers ones, and win the other two). That would be a 5-2 run, to climb back over .500 in preparation for a massive road series in St. Louis. If we can split that series, then a 7-4 stretch would go a long way towards completely restoring some hope. A bad scenario that isn't just lose every game would probably be the opposite of that, losing all series, and winding up 4-7 or 3-8 if the Cardinals sweep us, which at that point would secure a semi-permanent place in the NL Central basement.

One game at a time, but if you have any hope left, it has to be that we find a win in Texas, and then some things just start going well for us, and we go into that Cards series hot. I would be happy to see us just tread water a bit and win the As series at home, and then get the split with the Cards. That would be 6-5, meaning we'd still be under .500 and probably about 4-5 games behind in the division. Texas isn't great, and so I think we need to find more than that, maybe even the full-on turn on a dime, 6-1 stretch heading into St. Louis.

So, tldr;

Our records so far: 3-3, 7-3, 2-8, for a middling 12-14 and no chance at .500 heading out of April.

We need wins, for starters a single, solitary win, and then hopefully in quick succession a series win and a win in one half of the split four game series with Texas. I'm not trying to make these writeups to do predictions, and I'd be happy with 6-5 if only because it would be another sample on the register that we're the solid, peripheral WC race team that we are, even if I don't really think any set of games will give us much to draw conclusions from, given all the injuries and weirdness. In fact, best case scenario is that we're clawing out whatever wins we can, and when we are looking at this long road trip, we're looking at a team that is basically finally at full capacity, and wondering what we can do.

I don't think our talent level is such that we can make up a huge deficit, but we'll be good enough to work back into the mix when people get healthy, if we don't work ourselves into too big of a hole. That means staying around 4-5 games out in the division, and so as unsatisfying as a 6-5 hold ground would be, that would certainly do the trick. I'm hoping for something a little more maddening and Jekyll and Hyde-ish, with 8-3: take these games vs the Rangers, win a series vs a good team in Oakland, and show up in some big games vs the Cards and at least find a way to split the series. That would set us up for the return of some optimism, just in time to give it all back in road series vs Arizona and San Diego immediately following the Cards series.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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Baseball is a long season.

The team looks brutal right now, but a baseball season is filled with a bunch of ups and downs.

I expected the Pirates to be about a 80 win team before the season, being 12-14 seems about right where they should be when you consider the injuries they have had.

With Marte likely coming back tomorrow it will be interesting to see what they do with Reynolds.

Reynolds needs to be playing every day til his bat cools off, you can't afford to take his bat out of the lineup right now.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Sorry, I'm gonna call sample size and the fact that there is practically no real deviation from ".500" among teams, besides the Marlins and perhaps the Cardinals/Dodgers. The underlying thought still stands, but I think the thing that is more important than anything else is that we don't really have an accurate view of what this team can do in full health.

If you are a skeptic about the starting pitching, then there's reason to panic even more, and it's certainly a reasonable argument that swapping in Marte and Dickerson won't really move the needle on the most glaring problem with the team. I think the additional problem on top of the injuries has been the lack of production from 2B, C, and 3B.

But I guess my point is that at some point, it's pretty likely that all or most of that is going to turn on a dime, and the hype machine will be kickstarted again. I think CD's point above that this is an 80 win team is worth keeping in mind. I won't be in complete panic mode until the injury/slump-ridden team puts us so far down that an 80 win team can't really make up the difference, but there's still a lot of season left. We're at a critical juncture, and if we can't get some offense in these next 7 games, it's going to get uglier.
 
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Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
Dec 9, 2013
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I'm not in panic mode. They're performing exactly as I expected out of spring training. Good enough to beat struggling/bad teams, not good enough to hold their weight vs good/surging teams.

Sure, the injuries are taking a toll, but Marte and Chisenhall going down aren't surprises. Burdi going down sucks, but he's a guy who has pitched 63, 3, 17, 11 innings the past 4 years. Polanco not being 100% after a shoulder injury should have been expected. The only injury that really is bad luck is Dickerson.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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It kind of is as simple as this...



Because their have been so few games played i don't think this is a great stat to look at.

For instance we beat the Reds 5 out of 6 games, its going to be hard for the Reds to be over 500 when you have only played 28 games.

Arizona beat us 4 out 4, its the only reason they are above 500, i don't expect Arizona to be a above 500 team this year.

Basically what i'm saying is because their have been so few games played one or two series has a big impact on your record right now, so the teams we beat are more likely to be under 500, while the teams that beat us are more likely to be over 500.
 
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