Confirmed with Link: Raffl 2 year contract extension, 1.6AAV

[Hakroach]

Raffl at 1.6 AAV is fine. Especially when comparing what players of similar talent and role got last summer:

Jay Beagle

32

C

4

$12,000,000

$3,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Antoine Roussel	28	LW	4	$12,000,000	$3,000,000
Tim Schaller	27	C, LW	2	$3,800,000	$1,900,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Tripod]

You have 23 roster spots, usually 14 forwards, 7 D-men, 2 goalie.
You don't use prospects for #13/#14, #7 D-man because they're better off playing in the AHL than sitting in Philly.

Raffl starts on the 4th line, if those prospects are better than him, he ends in the press box as insurance against injury, if the prospects aren't ready, then you have a NHL caliber player on the 4th line.

The reason we've see so many marginal players on the 4th line the last few years is the prospects weren't good enough to push them to the press box, and players like Cousins, Weal, Leier, Luby, etc. have new addresses. People want to blame the HC for playing VdV, the real blame was Holmgren for stripping the pipeline and leaving no cash in the bank (cap room) to find someone better.

At least if Raffl isn't pushed down, he's a real NHL player.

But that is exactly what WILL be happening for NAK. He is likely the #13th forward next year as long as Frost makes the team, and we add 1 more F thru trade or FA.....something Fletch has said he wants to do.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Just had a thought, going back to the "blocking the youth" thing.

The Flyers were in the top half of the league for youngest rosters by most pre-season counts, and those included Lehtera, MacDonald, Weise, Simmonds, and both of Neuvirth and Elliott.

I just took the roster they've rolled out in their last few games, even including Elliott as the backup (oldest player on the roster at nearly 34) and calculated it. Included Bailey and Knight on the fourth line, though Knight and Varrone are essentially the same age.

The average age of that lineup is between 25.5 and 25.6, which would make it second-youngest in the league at the start of the season (I'm assuming Ottawa's right now like, below 25 though). Half of the current 20-man lineup is under 25, eight of those guys still will be at the start of next season, and I'd assume at least one more rookie makes it, particularly at the expense of 28-year-olds Knight and Varrone.

The Flyers are a remarkably young team, one of the youngest in the league by far. Outside of a backup goalie, Giroux is the oldest guy on the Flyers at ~31.2, and only four other regulars (Raffl, Voracek, van Riemsdyk, Gudas) are within three years of him. Yes, they need to strengthen the bottom 6, but they don't really need to get any younger to do that--they just need better players. I'm not sure they have any of those in-house at the moment.

 

[Curufinwe]

Flyer fans are like Meryn Trant .

 

[deadhead]

But that is exactly what WILL be happening for NAK. He is likely the #13th forward next year as long as Frost makes the team, and we add 1 more F thru trade or FA.....something Fletch has said he wants to do.

If he can't win a top 12 spot after 3 years in the AHL, NAK is no longer a prospect, he's just a body.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I was mad that they didn't move Raffl at the deadline, but with this extension, it makes sense. There's nothing wrong with the term or cap hit. As long as he is mostly on the 4th line (with PK duties), this is a good move.

 

[Tripod]

If he can't win a top 12 spot after 3 years in the AHL, NAK is no longer a prospect, he's just a body.

So you think he will get an honest, fair shot over a NHL they just signed to a 2 year deal?

That's all I am saying. It's easy to say "if he is better, he will play". But as we have seen, that is not always the case. And you know that.

 

[deadhead]

So you think he will get an honest, fair shot over a NHL they just signed to a 2 year deal?

That's all I am saying. It's easy to say "if he is better, he will play". But as we have seen, that is not always the case. And you know that.

Where's Weise, Lehtera and Weal these days?

If NAK plays like a guy with 3 AHL seasons under his belt (i.e. as if he knows what he's doing out there) and is as good as some suggest, he'll win a job in the starting lineup. But yes, he has to be better than Raffl, because otherwise Raffl gives you a better chance to win games.

Weal got 3 good shots at winning a job and came up short, if you're a marginal player, you're going to get a few games, not a few seasons, to show you belong, because there's another marginal player they can plug in your place.

During the season, if a prospect doesn't step up, the veteran will play over him because the object is to win games and veterans make fewer mistakes.
The prospect doesn't have to dominate, he just has to show he belongs and that he's learning from his mistakes.

 

[Tripod]

Where's Weise, Lehtera and Weal these days?

If NAK plays like a guy with 3 AHL seasons under his belt (i.e. as if he knows what he's doing out there) and is as good as some suggest, he'll win a job in the starting lineup. But yes, he has to be better than Raffl, because otherwise Raffl gives you a better chance to win games.

Weal got 3 good shots at winning a job and came up short, if you're a marginal player, you're going to get a few games, not a few seasons, to show you belong, because there's another marginal player they can plug in your place.

During the season, if a prospect doesn't step up, the veteran will play over him because the object is to win games and veterans make fewer mistake.
The prospect doesn't have to dominate, he just has to show he belongs and that he's learning from his mistakes.

None of those 3 were replaced with prospects. And if only that bolded was true.

 

[dragonoffrost]

None of those 3 were replaced with prospects. And if only that bolded was true.

Nope they were replaced by Journeymen AHL level talent that earned a cup here and all failed miserably too

 

[Rich Nixon]

None of those 3 were replaced with prospects. And if only that bolded was true.

This is true, though that trio of Weise, Lehtera, and Weal were basically never in the roster at the same time except for when both JVR and Raffl were injured.

But that's more to do with a lack of prospects rather than a lack of will to replace with them. Besides NAK and Vorobyov (who did get a shot at the expense of those slugs and was quite underwhelming), name me three NHL-caliber forward prospects currently on the Phantoms. I'll wait.

 

[Curufinwe]

Now that Bailey must have been officially recalled, they only have one more recall left.

 

[Hockeypete49]

If he can't win a top 12 spot after 3 years in the AHL, NAK is no longer a prospect, he's just a body.

Hate to say it but you may be right. Shame I liked him in junior.

 

[Rebels57]

But that is exactly what WILL be happening for NAK. He is likely the #13th forward next year as long as Frost makes the team, and we add 1 more F thru trade or FA.....something Fletch has said he wants to do.

Good problem to have then, no?

 

[The Madrigal]

I was mad that they didn't move Raffl at the deadline, but with this extension, it makes sense. There's nothing wrong with the term or cap hit. As long as he is mostly on the 4th line (with PK duties), this is a good move.

If I was confident that we would primarily see a fourth line of Raffl - Laughton - Hartman next year I would be fine with the move. We all know that's not going to happen though.

 

[Tripod]

If I was confident that we would primarily see a fourth line of Raffl - Laughton - Hartman next year I would be fine with the move. We all know that's not going to happen though.

That's my issue too.

I have no issue with Raffl the player as a 4th line guy....especially if it was for only 1 year.

But deep down, I expect to be pissed off when he is on the 3rd line and posting 20 points.

 

[Adtar02]

Raffl has played wing 99% of the time in the NHL. He’s not a center.

That’s not what I said.

 

[Johnk0728]

Fricking waste....why 2 years? He is a nothing player. Makes no sense....he will again be a third line winger with 20 points.

 

[Curufinwe]

He's not a shut down center, nor is a he a regular faceoff taker, or an above average faceoff winner.

Michael Raffl stats - Philadelphia Flyers - Puckbase

 

[The Madrigal]

That's my issue too.

I have no issue with Raffl the player as a 4th line guy....especially if it was for only 1 year.

But deep down, I expect to be pissed off when he is on the 3rd line and posting 20 points.

The only saving grace is that there might not be a stop for him in the top 9 with the way things are shaping up.

Giroux
Couturier
Voracek
JVR
Konecny
Patrick
Lindblom
Frost
FA or player they trade for

In theory, if everyone is healthy Raffl should be on the fourth line and makes a nice trio there with Laughton and Hartman. I've seen this movie so many times before and Raffl never seems to end up on the fourth line where he belongs though.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Just had a thought, going back to the "blocking the youth" thing.

The Flyers were in the top half of the league for youngest rosters by most pre-season counts, and those included Lehtera, MacDonald, Weise, Simmonds, and both of Neuvirth and Elliott.

I just took the roster they've rolled out in their last few games, even including Elliott as the backup (oldest player on the roster at nearly 34) and calculated it. Included Bailey and Knight on the fourth line, though Knight and Varrone are essentially the same age.

The average age of that lineup is between 25.5 and 25.6, which would make it second-youngest in the league at the start of the season (I'm assuming Ottawa's right now like, below 25 though). Half of the current 20-man lineup is under 25, eight of those guys still will be at the start of next season, and I'd assume at least one more rookie makes it, particularly at the expense of 28-year-olds Knight and Varrone.

The Flyers are a remarkably young team, one of the youngest in the league by far. Outside of a backup goalie, Giroux is the oldest guy on the Flyers at ~31.2, and only four other regulars (Raffl, Voracek, van Riemsdyk, Gudas) are within three years of him. Yes, they need to strengthen the bottom 6, but they don't really need to get any younger to do that--they just need better players. I'm not sure they have any of those in-house at the moment.

Yeah I never understood the narrative that the kids are being blocked. There's kids everywhere in the lineup.

Flyers fans have lost their marbles lately as far as their gauge of veterans in-general as an overreaction to people like McDonald being overused.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah I never understood the narrative that the kids are being blocked. There's kids everywhere in the lineup.

Flyers fans have lost their marbles lately as far as their gauge of veterans in-general as an overreaction to people like McDonald being overused.

Look at how long it took for Myers and Morin to get into the lineup.

Or how NAK and Vorobyev are still in the AHL.

The problem is that being the superior player isn't enough to get a spot. If it was, MacDonald and Hagg aren't even playing.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Look at how long it took for Myers and Morin to get into the lineup.

Or how NAK and Vorobyev are still in the AHL.

The problem is that being the superior player isn't enough to get a spot. If it was, MacDonald and Hagg aren't even playing.

The problem is that there's a million other kids that have been in the lineup, just not the ones fans think are deserving.

My point is that young kids are everywhere, but if you ask(ed) Flyers fans recently, they'd say we don't play the kids. Just not the right kids.

Mind you: I don't disagree that some of those guys should've been up sooner/up now/playing more, but it's just the general groupthink that had me puzzled for the past year or so.

 

[Striiker]

The problem is that there's a million other kids that have been in the lineup, just not the ones fans think are deserving.

My point is that young kids are everywhere, but if you ask(ed) Flyers fans recently, they'd say we don't play the kids. Just not the right kids.

Mind you: I don't disagree that some of those guys should've been up sooner/up now/playing more, but it's just the general groupthink that had me puzzled for the past year or so.

Leaving trash like MacDonald in the lineup to block Myers has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there’s other kids in the lineup.

They don’t get points for the amount of kids on the team, they get points for winning and playing the best players is how you do that. The fact that the best possible team isn’t being iced, simply because they refuse to make room for superior players, has been a huge problem.

Sanheim, Myers, Lindblom, and Konecny are all kids who have been blocked by inferior players in the last year or two.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Raffl at 1.6 AAV is fine. Especially when comparing what players of similar talent and role got last summer:

Jay Beagle

32

C

4

$12,000,000

$3,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Antoine Roussel	28	LW	4	$12,000,000	$3,000,000
Tim Schaller	27	C, LW	2	$3,800,000	$1,900,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That is just one team spending money because they had to. Not a good comparable, really.