Racism In Hockey

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Ward Cornell

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Dec 22, 2007
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For those who might be interested, there's a current movie that touches on the subject of racism in hockey. The executive producer of the movie is none other than Clint Eastwood, and the movie is "Indian Horse". It chronicals the struggles of a talented young First Nation person to make a Major Jr. A team back in the '60's and the effect of coming from a residential school background has on this individual's performance. The movie is based on a book written by Richard Wagamese whose
heritage is Ojibway.
Thanks for the heads-up on that movie. I saw it advertised but that's about it!
Another Clint movie that we really enjoyed that is also about racism is Gran Torino!...a must see!
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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It's unfortunate that you took all of the time to respond to something that you didn't read. You simply twisted my words to fit what you wanted to say.

Bottom line is that I'm happy that a positive discussion is taking place.

Seb went out of his way to "choose" a number of racists that he wanted to accuse. That's a serious accusation. Was he even at the game in the vicinity of the bench?

Have this discussion without throwing labels on people and intentionally making it antagonistic.

Let's discuss why these things happen in sports. Let's discuss real things that have happened to people instead of speculating. That's a better way to go about it in my opinion.
I mean, ignoring the fact that you just repeated the same points to me that I made to you, I'm not going to continue this line of the discussion because it's taking away from the broader discussion that needs to be had--the discussion about racism in hockey and in society--and I feel that would be disrespectful to Seb. My intention was to interject briefly to lend support to Seb, and do my part to get this thread back on track.

I fully agree with the sentence in your post that I bolded. It sounds like we're in agreement that we should move forward and discuss things as Seb intended, about why racism manifests in sports and what can be done about it. I love hockey and I want it to be fully inclusive. If anyone is feeling excluded from enjoying the best sport to ever grace this earth, that's a tragedy in my opinion, and the hockey community should put all of our differences aside and come together to fix the cracks that have allowed that hate to seep in. Hockey has always been a refuge from the harsh realities of the real world, and whenever it fails in that respect, it's all of our responsibility to make sure we're prepared to act if the opportunity arises.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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For those who might be interested, there's a current movie that touches on the subject of racism in hockey. The executive producer of the movie is none other than Clint Eastwood, and the movie is "Indian Horse". It chronicals the struggles of a talented young First Nation person to make a Major Jr. A team back in the '60's and the effect of coming from a residential school background has on this individual's performance. The movie is based on a book written by Richard Wagamese whose
heritage is Ojibway.
That is true that our First Nations brothers and sisters have also traditionally experienced racism in hockey. Chris Simon has talked about it, for one.
 

RoyalCitySlicker

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Sep 6, 2013
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It's unfortunate that you took all of the time to respond to something that you didn't read. You simply twisted my words to fit what you wanted to say.

Bottom line is that I'm happy that a positive discussion is taking place.

Seb went out of his way to "choose" a number of racists that he wanted to accuse. That's a serious accusation. Was he even at the game in the vicinity of the bench?

Have this discussion without throwing labels on people and intentionally making it antagonistic.

Let's discuss why these things happen in sports. Let's discuss real things that have happened to people instead of speculating. That's a better way to go about it in my opinion.

I don't think you understand the meaning of "serious accusation". You can't believe that applies to Seb calling out less than 1% of the fans at the Essar Centre anonymously, can you? Are there people that, who as a result of what Seb said, will see serious repercussions in their everyday lives?

You want to talk about what's real? Let's talk about what's real.

Having attended 30+ games a year for the past few years, there are plenty of morons at every hockey game. They're not even limited to racists....you also get sexists, homophobes, and a whole bunch of over-served idiots who all can't wait for you to hear their next "zinger". It's OK that they exist in the Soo. They are in Guelph, too. I've seen them. It's Ok. No need to feel offended over it, or to come to your city's defense.

A city isn't defined by the idiots within it, but by the people who try to change it and affect it for the better. The best thing you can do, is to take Seb at his word - I mean why would he lie - and maybe apologize for talking to him and others the way you have.

And if all that doesn't work out, you can always revisit your crusade to get Scott Ferguson thrown in jail for how he, in your opinion, officiated a hockey game poorly.

After all, "Scott Ferguson is a criminal that should be in jail right now. "
 

staubitz

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Apr 30, 2015
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The article got picked up with the Toronto Star and on MSN home page.
Kitchener Rangers forward was the target of racial slurs before, after on-ice outburst

Too bad Josh Brown's accusation against the Hounds' coaching staff and players is still in this article. I'm sure Jay McKee and David Branch would have been the first people to have been made aware if any racial comments were being made by anyone connected with the team.

If any racial slurs or threats occurred online, I feel very badly for Smith and hope those people can be located and dealt with by the authorities.
 
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BenchedGuy

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Nov 26, 2009
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Too bad Josh Brown's accusation against the Hounds' coaching staff and players is still in this article. I'm sure Jay McKee and David Branch would have been the first people to have been made aware if any racial comments were being made by anyone connected with the team.

If any racial slurs or threats occurred online, I feel very badly for Smith and hope those people can be located and dealt with by the authorities.

If some facts are not accurate, I would feel bad for the accused. Hopefully Josh Brown reveals other sources for that part of the article or does a partial retraction for said part.

With that being said, I hope that others are not losing the big message, that should be the main point, of racism being an issue in hockey. This topic needs attention and needs support from all.
 
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OHLFan90

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Dec 24, 2013
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A serious question for Seb. What legal measures have you taken to ensure that the perpetrators of these crimes are brought to justice? The Ontario Human Rights Code is explicit, and I believe favorable, on this matter. You should be able to reach justice through due process in the situations you describe.

The Stratford Cullitons (Now Warriors) Helped me when it came to dealing with the comments that where left on the article I wrote. They and the Stratford police where able to track it down using the IP address.

The fans where season ticket holders and where banned for a bit.

They issued a statement on their facebook page about it but this was a few years back.

Overall I think we can all play a significant part. As much as some of us would want to beat up someone who could say such things, I'd rather leave it to the law to decide their fate. If it happens. Call over security and also file a complaint with the police.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Nov 16, 2007
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Too bad Josh Brown's accusation against the Hounds' coaching staff and players is still in this article. I'm sure Jay McKee and David Branch would have been the first people to have been made aware if any racial comments were being made by anyone connected with the team.

If any racial slurs or threats occurred online, I feel very badly for Smith and hope those people can be located and dealt with by the authorities.

I have a real problem with the accusation. It's horrible that Smith had to face this but to pin it on the Hounds coaching staff and players is worse than anything else imo. Racism is wrong and Smith shouldn't have to face it but Willy O'Ree faced it, Joel Ward has faced it. Donald Brashear/Peter Worrell/Wayne Simmonds and the list will continue to grow. It's unfortunate and by no means acceptable but if we can go through decades about players facing racism it isn't likely to stop any time soon.
 

BenchedGuy

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Nov 26, 2009
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I have a real problem with the accusation. It's horrible that Smith had to face this but to pin it on the Hounds coaching staff and players is worse than anything else imo. Racism is wrong and Smith shouldn't have to face it but Willy O'Ree faced it, Joel Ward has faced it. Donald Brashear/Peter Worrell/Wayne Simmonds and the list will continue to grow. It's unfortunate and by no means acceptable but if we can go through decades about players facing racism it isn't likely to stop any time soon.

Just because previous athletes have faced it doesn't mean it should be status quo. Saying its nothing new and likely not going to stop is what is wrong. People have to say its unacceptable without a "but".
 

youngblood10

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Jan 26, 2010
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Unfortunately in society racism exists. Regardless of race, when you are the minority you will deal with racism. I'm not saying that it's right or acceptable but that's how the world is. As much as we would like to have hockey in it's own little bubble that just isn't the reality. I actually think however the hockey community has come a long, long way in the last 15 -20 years. In all aspects, including in the stands. Thankfully these occurrences are becoming less frequent and hopefully that's a trend that continues. If we lived in a perfect world, this would never happen but unfortunately we don't.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Just because previous athletes have faced it doesn't mean it should be status quo. Saying its nothing new and likely not going to stop is what is wrong. People have to say its unacceptable without a "but".

I never said it should be status quo but there shouldn't be outrage anymore because this is the society we live in. Your last comment rings hallow because nobody thinks it's acceptable because most likely these views by people have been ingrained with these people over time and from the environment they grew up in. You're not going to change people who have these thoughts ingrained over decades of time.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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Why can't people change? There have been many instances of people changing racist views through education. I'm sure we all know personal examples in our own lives. But those minds don't have to be changed, they just have to be shown that that behaviour is unacceptable, period, and the consequences will be dire. Then we can minimize the amount of occurrences. And if even one less athlete has to go through what Givani Smith went through then it's a win. It's like saying "well, you'll never stop people from murdering each other so we might as well just accept that it'll happen and not do anything to improve things further. It's ingrained in certain people that they're going to murder and we can't stop it." If we'd taken that mindset, the crime rate would be a lot higher now than it is. It's a defeatist attitude.
 
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youngblood10

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Why can't people change? There have been many instances of people changing racist views through education. I'm sure we all know personal examples in our own lives. But those minds don't have to be changed, they just have to be shown that that behaviour is unacceptable, period, and the consequences will be dire. Then we can minimize the amount of occurrences. And if even one less athlete has to go through what Givani Smith went through then it's a win. It's like saying "well, you'll never stop people from murdering each other so we might as well just accept that it'll happen and not do anything to improve things further. It's ingrained in certain people that they're going to murder and we can't stop it." If we'd taken that mindset, the crime rate would be a lot higher now than it is. It's a defeatist attitude.

I agree some people can be educated. If whatever was said, was out of anger as what's the most hurtful thing they can say. Which in this case was an ignorant racists comment, then yes. They may change or at least figure out that it's offensive to everyone.
But if they have hatred ingrained in them & around them they will never change. Just how it is.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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I agree some people can be educated. If whatever was said, was out of anger as what's the most hurtful thing they can say. Which in this case was an ignorant racists comment, then yes. They may change or at least figure out that it's offensive to everyone.
But if they have hatred ingrained in them & around them they will never change. Just how it is.

What is this based on? Because there are many historical examples that suggest the opposite. For example, going back to the height of South African apartheid, one of the most well-known politicians, Terreblanche. He was born into a white Afrikaans and racially-prejudiced family and community, so he had hatred ingrained into and around him. He was very outspoken into his adult life about his racist beliefs and support of apartheid. Then he completely turned his beliefs around. And again, all minds don't have to be changed. We just have to have as many people as possible showing these people that the behaviour won't be tolerated, so the most stubborn people with racist beliefs will keep them to themselves and away from the public.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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I agree some people can be educated. If whatever was said, was out of anger as what's the most hurtful thing they can say. Which in this case was an ignorant racists comment, then yes. They may change or at least figure out that it's offensive to everyone.
But if they have hatred ingrained in them & around them they will never change. Just how it is.

Agreed and even if you can bring yourself to shout something racist out of anger it still goes back to even having those thoughts to yell it out speaks volumes about the belief existing in the first place. You see it in different walks of life for example in politics people have ingrained views good luck getting them to change that etc..
 

bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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I have a real problem with the accusation. It's horrible that Smith had to face this but to pin it on the Hounds coaching staff and players is worse than anything else imo. Racism is wrong and Smith shouldn't have to face it but Willy O'Ree faced it, Joel Ward has faced it. Donald Brashear/Peter Worrell/Wayne Simmonds and the list will continue to grow. It's unfortunate and by no means acceptable but if we can go through decades about players facing racism it isn't likely to stop any time soon.
Rayzor I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I just want to point out that in Brown's article he said the Rangers heard things said from the Soo bench that were derogatory. Who do you believe in this instance? I totally agree that this sort of racism in hockey will not stop. Looking at the recent history these hockey incidents happened not that long ago and are still happening today. I was born many moons ago and it wasn't really that long ago integration was excepted in the USA. Watching many recent rallies you can see racism is alive and well and all it takes is a little prodding by someone with an agenda to bring these types of people out of the wood work. To me it's actually frightening to know that these people actually have a platform to display their ignorance.
 

rangersblues

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Mar 21, 2010
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I never said it should be status quo but there shouldn't be outrage anymore because this is the society we live in. Your last comment rings hallow because nobody thinks it's acceptable because most likely these views by people have been ingrained with these people over time and from the environment they grew up in. You're not going to change people who have these thoughts ingrained over decades of time.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? There have been a lot of statements made on this topic that I disagree with, but this has to top the list. That's like saying mass shootings in the United States shouldn't outrage anyone because that's the society we live in. Things like that are wrong and people need to respond. There has to be outrage, not complacency. C'mon man.

That might be okay in the world you'd like to live in. In the world I want - If it's broke, fix it!
 

Marj44

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Jun 17, 2015
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I just want to point out that in Brown's article he said the Rangers heard things said from the Soo bench that were derogatory.

Allow me to chime in for a moment. I believe this is where there’s some miscommunication and where some Hounds fans may believe the Rangers fans are accusing the team.
Josh Brown DID NOT say they heard things said from the Soo bench. He states they heard things from BEHIND the Soo bench.
In all likelihood this is a fan that would have shouted something near the benches. When you say things like the derogatory terms came from the bench you’re accusing the staff or players of saying the derogatory comments as they are the ones on the bench.

That slight miscommunication is making things sound like the Greyhounds players/Staff are being accused of something very serious that has no evidence. That’s unacceptable. We cannot ruin the career of any coach or player by suggesting or projecting something like that on to them.

We could just as easily say that a member of the Rangers team make a fake account and sent a racist message to Givani for his removal of game 7 (hurting the team). So someone on the Rangers did that and that’s the type of player you get in Kitchener.
Cmon now, we can’t say that. We can’t suggest things or assume things especially when it comes to something serious like this.

I believe IN THIS CASE tha every player and coach in the OHL is innocent and that a fan did something very disturbing. I will not bash a coach or player or project this on anyone until someone shows concrete proof otherwise.

(Just to clarify, I’m not blaming anyone on these boards, it seems to be a miscommunication that many posters are taking their own way and bending this slightly, whether by mistake or on purpose).
 
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RayzorIsDull

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ARE YOU KIDDING ME? There have been a lot of statements made on this topic that I disagree with, but this has to top the list. That's like saying mass shootings in the United States shouldn't outrage anyone because that's the society we live in. Things like that are wrong and people need to respond. There has to be outrage, not complacency. C'mon man.

That might be okay in the world you'd like to live in. In the world I want - If it's broke, fix it!

Well there's certainly some hyperbole you disagree with other posts but choose mine to respond to and that's fine. Once again people have opinions and can feel outraged. You're comparing apples and oranges mass shootings are awful but to be a harbinger of change you need to talk to the NRA, go through senate, congress etc.. In regards to racism this has been ingrained in the beliefs of people and the culture we live in now. Racism in sports happens every day, racism happens every day in the form of job interviews. Nobody is saying it's acceptable just that it's not going away.

Can you tell me if when there's another school shooting you won't be shocked? Like I said doesn't make it acceptable none of it is but the shock and outrage doesn't do anything.
 
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rangersblues

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Mar 21, 2010
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Well there's certainly some hyperbole you disagree with other posts but choose mine to respond to and that's fine. Once again people have opinions and can feel outraged. You're comparing apples and oranges mass shootings are awful but to be a harbinger of change you need to talk to the NRA, go through senate, congress etc.. In regards to racism this has been ingrained in the beliefs of people and the culture we live in now. Racism in sports happens every day, racism happens every day in the form of job interviews. Nobody is saying it's acceptable just that it's not going away.

Can you tell me if when there's another school shooting you won't be shocked? Like I said doesn't make it acceptable none of it is but the shock and outrage doesn't do anything.

It's time to drive racists back under the rocks. If you can't change them because it's ingrained as you say, maybe the shock and outrage will show them it is unacceptable and do just that. At any rate I hope we can agree racism is definitely not something we can ignore. Doing nothing is not the answer.
 

bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Kitchener Ontario
Allow me to chime in for a moment. I believe this is where there’s some miscommunication and where some Hounds fans may believe the Rangers fans are accusing the team.
Josh Brown DID NOT say they heard things said from the Soo bench. He states they heard things from BEHIND the Soo bench.
In all likelihood this is a fan that would have shouted something near the benches. When you say things like the derogatory terms came from the bench you’re accusing the staff or players of saying the derogatory comments as they are the ones on the bench.

That slight miscommunication is making things sound like the Greyhounds players/Staff are being accused of something very serious that has no evidence. That’s unacceptable. We cannot ruin the career of any coach or player by suggesting or projecting something like that on to them.

We could just as easily say that a member of the Rangers team make a fake account and sent a racist message to Givani for his removal of game 7 (hurting the team). So someone on the Rangers did that and that’s the type of player you get in Kitchener.
Cmon now, we can’t say that. We can’t suggest things or assume things especially when it comes to something serious like this.

I believe IN THIS CASE tha every player and coach in the OHL is innocent and that a fan did something very disturbing. I will not bash a coach or player or project this on anyone until someone shows concrete proof otherwise.

(Just to clarify, I’m not blaming anyone on these boards, it seems to be a miscommunication that many posters are taking their own way and bending this slightly, whether by mistake or on purpose).
Normally I would not respond to a Soo fan. Your correct I mistakenly left out "behind" the bench. Other than that Brown should win an award for bringing all this to the forefront.
 
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aresknights

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Dec 27, 2009
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It's unfortunate that you took all of the time to respond to something that you didn't read. You simply twisted my words to fit what you wanted to say.

Bottom line is that I'm happy that a positive discussion is taking place.

Seb went out of his way to "choose" a number of racists that he wanted to accuse. That's a serious accusation. Was he even at the game in the vicinity of the bench?

Have this discussion without throwing labels on people and intentionally making it antagonistic.

Let's discuss why these things happen in sports. Let's discuss real things that have happened to people instead of speculating. That's a better way to go about it in my opinion.

Delete. Others have responded in a much clearer way than I could have
 
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youngblood10

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Jan 26, 2010
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What is this based on? Because there are many historical examples that suggest the opposite. For example, going back to the height of South African apartheid, one of the most well-known politicians, Terreblanche. He was born into a white Afrikaans and racially-prejudiced family and community, so he had hatred ingrained into and around him. He was very outspoken into his adult life about his racist beliefs and support of apartheid. Then he completely turned his beliefs around. And again, all minds don't have to be changed. We just have to have as many people as possible showing these people that the behaviour won't be tolerated, so the most stubborn people with racist beliefs will keep them to themselves and away from the public.

It's based on a life time of experiences & many travels to all corners of the world. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think your view of what the world could be is great, just not realistic.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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It's based on a life time of experiences & many travels to all corners of the world. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think your view of what the world could be is great, just not realistic.
I just gave you one very famous example of how someone with very ingrained views changed them, and there are many more. So that's just absolutely false. One thing's for sure, the world's not going to change if we're all too lazy to do anything about it.
 
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