Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by spiny norman, Apr 21, 2021.
What about Keith Tkachuk?
Dual nationality and played internationally for the US, so I would guess he counts for “American” players in the record books. Not “American born” I suppose, since he was born in Ontario.
These are always interesting tidbits. They do favor the younger guys though, as just about everyone's play declines in the latter half of their career. Just like McDavid and his points per game will likely decline a little bit at some point just like Crosby.
This is true but think of the era those guys played in, Matthews career goals per game will eventually go down but then adjust for era and I won't be surprised to see him stay around that 3rd spot.
Yup, although Lemieux was just a beast almost his whole career. Came back at 35 years old after a 3-year retirement and put up 35 goals in 43 games? Jeez.
1. Lemieux: .754
2. Gretzky: .610
3. Matthews: .597
4. Esposito: .559
5. Dionne: .542
6. LaFontaine: .541
7. Stamkos: .522
8. Stewart: .498
9. Morentz: .493
10: Lindros: .489
Only 7 centers above .5 a game. Let's see if Stammer can keep above it. (although is he more a winger now?)
Matthews is more like a Lemieux type, too. He's a very efficient player... a lot of the times he's scoring he's moving slow or standing still. Even when on a rush he's usually not scoring because of his speed... largely because he isn't very fast though he can take people by surprise with some of his bursts.
It bodes very well for his future scoring ability.
Yeah, that's true. He only has 10 hat tricks in his career compared to Matthews who has 3 in his career..
Matthews has this won though
That's the funny thing with McDavid. He was on pace this year for 50sh. He is more of a playmaker, but has a lethal shot. He just makes plays more. That's how he will always be. A 40 goal year is easy for McDavid to hit, but he will always have a ton of assists on top of that. He might win a rocket or two when things go more his way or he starts passing less, but that isn't his game.
He is very very good at getting into lanes and he doesn't need a lot of time either with his lethal shot. I don't see him ever losing that for a loooong time, unless he injures his wrist a lot.
Yeah, McDavid can score, I don't deny that at all, but if you read the post I responded to, it's not like he can just rip off a few hattricks just because he wants to. Nobody can do that. It doesn't matter what he's chasing, he can't just suddenly decide to score 3 goals per game several games in a row
and even then i don't think he relies on stick whip like some other players do. there is some but it's not like insane like kessel. most of the terror comes from him shifting the position on the ice before his release that it completely changes the angle of the shot or how he just sneaks around the zone like a ninja. and the way he holds the stick... he basically never moves his hands unless he's stickhandling in front of himself... so he's always in resting position. so even with messed up wrists he'd still be dangerous even though he'd have more difficulty aiming or getting peak velocity, he'd still likely be a 30G scorer the way he plays.
I see McDavid went scoreless last night. Pathetic.
Honestly after years of hating the Oilers and being mad they got a million draft picks, including McDavid and Drai I think I'm rdy to just enjoy them all. It's a waste to look at them as rivals. All 3 of those guys are top 5 players imo. I don't care about advanced stats. McDavid, Mack, Drai, Matthews are all top 5 for me. Must watch hockey. The 5th guy is up for debate.
In the same way Brady and Matthew Tkachuk are half Canadian, or what about Jakob Cychrun, who is a born and raised Floridian (and proud of it) with two Canadian parents - who has said he feels like a Canadian and decided to represent them internationally.. Explain that one.
Either way, it’s an apples to oranges comparison to Brett Hull, who literally spent something like 20 of his first 22 years of life in Canada and switched sides only when he was snubbed by Hockey Canada. Which is why people tend to state “American born” to differentiate from somebody like Hull.
There was no award when he led the league in goals.
You missed the point. He's not "Pure 'Merican", hes half mexican and very proud of it.
He is american born, yes but you cant just throw away his Mexican culture and heritage for an argument. Thats insulting.
No arguments there. It's just that this quote stemmed directly from a discussion of whether or not Hull's citizenship counted and Matthews by contrast being raised and trained there. If we want to discount all goals leaders pre-Rocket that's fine, but then Hull's status is irrelevant regardless.
I’ll admit I first cheered against Matthews then I realized it’s ridiculous. Praising him takes nothing away from McDavid. The guy is a scoring machine and I’m more impressed that it’s just a goal every single night
Who is throwing away his Mexican culture and heritage? Does having a Mother born in Mexico and him being half Latino makes him less American to you? Before you start talking about insulting you should think about what you’re actually saying and the assumptions you’re making.
The actual point was to differentiate from Brett Hull - and the comment was meant as in he is “pure” as in US born, raised and trained - again, to contrast Hull.
My original post was “If Matthews wins the Rocket Richard he will be the first American to have done so.
I didn’t bring up Hull or Tkachuk.
In a sports context, if someone has dual citizenship, I think all that matters is where they were raised and most importantly, where they were developed as an athlete. If Hull was developed in the 'States, then I say he's an American from a sports point of view.
Edit: Another poster just said he was trained and developed in Canada so that would change mind mind if true. Dunno myself.
These discussions always make me think of Steve Nash. Born in South Africa, raised and developed (mostly) as an athlete in Canada but clearly honed as an athlete in the NCAA system. Who gets to claim him?
I just like hockey. Love 'em all.
Right, and I should specify I don't take issue with the original point. It's just the conversation ended up shifting into discussion about Hull and whether or not his status counts, and I guess I'm saying it doesn't really matter if he does because if we're opening the door to leaders prior to '99, another inarguable American fits the bill anyway.
I guess then we can agree that Matthews should he win would be the first US-born player to win the award, given it didn't exist prior to a certain year, and at the same time he wouldn't be the first with the achievement regardless of how one deals with Hull.
Even with the 8 goal cushion I'm still feeling uneasy about calling it a lock for Matthews.
Too many Oilers-Canucks games still left.
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