Race for the Rocket Richard 2021 - Part II

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by spiny norman, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Raym11 Phaneuf sucks

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    Mcdavid might close this gap with a couple hat tricks and then some to finish off the season going for 100.


    It scares me i can type that without sarcasm
     
  2. shaner82 Registered User

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    You're right, but what reason is there to think that Matthews won't continue playing this way for 10+ more years? It's not like truly elite players just fall off a cliff.

    People love to acknowledge AM's current stats but also try to minimize it but saying he hasn't done it long enough. Yet McDavid is often considered to be a top 5 all time player, despite the fact he also doesn't have any longevity yet. Why is it presumed that McDavid will continue his elite play but Matthews possibly won't?

    I love Mats Sundin, Gimour, Clark, etc. They were great Leafs. Matthews is showing that he is better than them. Of course he needs to keep it up, but why wouldn't he? Even if most years he scores 45-50 instead of 55-60, that still puts him #1 in Leafs history, IMO.

    As for Leafs greats back in the 6 team league, I have a hard time comparing current players to any back then. It was just a different league with such little competition.
     
  3. shaner82 Registered User

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    McDavid is ridiculous, but he's not a good enough goal scorer that he can just rip off hat tricks whenever he wants. Could he? Of course, any of the top players could end up finishing the season with a couple hat tricks, but it's not like he can pull it off just because he's determined to do it. Prime Ovechkin was perhaps the best at being truly unstoppable when he was determined, but he also had the luxury of cherry picking. McDavid plays far deeper in his own end than Ovi did/does.
     
  4. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    McDavid ain't "one of the greatest of all time" YET..........and neither is Matthews.

    They are both simply well on their way. I have no doubt that they will both get there, but proclamations like that at THIS point, are a bit silly.
     
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  5. Cotton Registered User

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    This is why I’ve been reluctant about declaring the race over, McDavid has a flare for beating of soft opponents, and with 4 more against the Canucks I wouldn’t be surprised to see him close the gap.
     
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  6. Zybalto Registered User

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    Current all time goals/game standings for centers:

    1. Lemieux: .754
    2. Gretzky: .610
    3. Matthews: .597
    4. Esposito: .559
    5. Dionne: .542

    Because he was such a beast right off the hop, he's really high up on the goals scoring list. Injuries and covid shutdowns hurting his overall totals more than anything long term.

    The question is whether or not he can maintain his prime as a goal scorer a la Ovi and stay healthy but he certainly seems to have the tools and goal scoring IQ to keep this up for a very long time. Not a guy that relies on insane speed/agility. He's always gonna have that shot.
     
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  7. MoreMogilny Cap'n

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    I think McDavid is going to make it a close race.

    Matthews isn’t slowing down but McDavid seems to be scoring multiple times a game lately. 6 games left leaves him within striking distance of Matthews.

    Of course that would require Matthews himself to stop scoring. But if you look at the games left the path for McDavid is a lot easier. He plays 5 games against non playoff teams still. The Leafs only play 2.

    It should be interesting!
     
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  8. Confucius We Can and We Will

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    Not to mention Vancouver keeps pulling their goalie to keep their dream of winning out alive. Could be close.
     
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  9. onetweasy Registered User

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    Doesn't 97 have the same amount of hat tricks this season as Mathews does in his career....
     
  10. authentic Registered User

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    No one you mentioned was better than Matthews has been at scoring goals, soo...?
     
  11. authentic Registered User

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    Matthews is first in goals per game since he's been in the NHL and has as many goals in his last 80 games as Yzerman had in his best season in 1989 when the league was over 2 goals per game higher than it is now and Yzerman played drastically more time on ice. It's literally not close in terms of just goal scoring ability.
     
  12. authentic Registered User

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    McDavid is a flat out better overall player than Ovechkin ever was, but Ovechkin was easily the better goal scorer. If McDavid wanted to he could score more goals (than he does currently, not more than Ovechkin), but his overall assist and point totals would go down. The way he plays utilizes his skillset perfectly, which goes without saying considering he's not only the most skilled but also the smartest player in the world.
     
  13. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    What are you talking about? You're looking at Matthews's 3/4 season against only 6 teams under a microscope and proclaiming him "best". Jesus.

    Esposito scored 717 goals in his career, with 76, 69, 66, 61 and 55 goal seasons. A few 40+ goal seasons on top of that. He's WAY greater a goal scorer than Matthews is at this point. Matthews might become that if he's super lucky, but you're talking silly, saying he's already there.

    Yzerman scored over 60 goals twice, and added another three 50+ goal seasons. Matthews hasn't come close to that yet.

    Sakic scored over 50 goals twice and added another three 40+ goal seasons.

    Matthews' "pace" is great & all, but it only tells half a story. Until he does what these other guys actually did already, he's not in their league YET.

    I know you're a Leaf fan, and so am I and we both have tons of reasons to be excited. But Dude.........
     
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  14. authentic Registered User

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    I'm talking about his entire career... You also realize the scoring differences between then and now? Matthews has a higher goals per game than all of those players at the same ages (despite being utilized like a 2nd line player for 3 1/4 seasons), and for his entire career, and yes his career average will go down eventually, but not so much that he won't remain comfortably ahead when considering the drastic difference in eras. I know you're trying to sound objective, but objectively Matthews is a better goal scorer than all those players.
     
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  15. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    Hey, knock yourself out, I guess. Looking at only half the picture seems to do it for you. Not me, but whatever.

    :)
     
  16. NoName Bringer of Playoffs!

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    Technically, yes but to be fair Brett Hull did lead the league in goalscoring three straight years before the trophy was established, so it isn’t like this is unbroken ground for Americans.

    And to be honest at this point I think we can say “when he wins”. This race is done. McDavid would have to get nine goals in six games while Matthews is held to no goals in four games. Both possibilities are remote on their own and them both happening is practically impossible.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  17. shaner82 Registered User

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    Not sure but since you brought this up I'll assume he does.

    Not sure how that's relevant. Matthews scores regularly but rarely gets hat tricks. McDaid has more, but still doesn't mean he can just go out and score 3 goals just because he's determined to hit a certain number.
     
  18. authentic Registered User

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    Wasn't Brett Hull born in Canada? And his father is Bobby Hull. He played for team America later in his career and went to college hockey in the states, but I'm not sure if he's really considered more American than Canadian?
     
  19. authentic Registered User

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    Lol well if you're listing career totals and higher raw season totals when scoring was way higher than today of course they'll be considered ahead, but in terms of goal scoring ability and any reasonable projection they are not.
     
  20. TheGreatOne11 Registered User

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    McDavid wins hart and art ross.

    Matthews wins the rocket.

    McDavid is the better player, Matthews is the better goal scorer.

    This is the rocket thread so I'll say this, yes McDavid could catch up to where Matthews is at now with some insane performances, but that is on the basis Matthews stops scoring, which he won't.
     
  21. harvestglen Registered User

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    I think that's fair enough, but there is also Tkachuk who had the most goals in 1996-97.
     
  22. WaitingForUser Registered User

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    He is a US citizen and when he was cut from Canada’s World JR team he only ever played for the states on the world stage. Born in Canada but raised in the States. He is considered to be an American by most people.
     
  23. authentic Registered User

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    Yeah technically he is considered both, but it's a little iffy to just consider him American since he was born in Canada and came back to Canada in 1972, then went back to the states in 1979. So he spent the ages of 8-15 in Canada.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  24. Cotton Registered User

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    Brett Hull declared for the US only when he felt snubbed by hockey Canada, outside of a few years when he was really young he spent his entire life in Canada all the way into his 20’s. Matthews was born and raised in the states, American trained. He’s the real first American to win it, if he does, IMO.
     
  25. Namikaze Minato Registered User

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    Except that hes half Mexican.
     

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