Race for the Calder - Part II

[Unspecified]

what this says is Dallas doesn't get scoring from it's depth players.

Depth players? Outside of 4 forwards the team is pure shit. It's not surprising this is bloated to include 1 line. That is all we can ice this season.

 

[Unspecified]

Again, why do Dallas fans continue to diminish Kaprizov's accomplishments with things like "he's old" and "even strength points hurr durr" and then come around and whine about it when people discuss Robertson's quality of linemantes?

What about the fact that Robertson has previous NHL experience? Or the fact he grew up playing on an NHL sized rink? Kaprizov literally never played in NA before, so isn't it an accomplishment that he's been able to transition so seamlessly to NHL ice?

Also, Robertson is only 2 years younger than Kaprizov, why the f*** are we acting like it's a Panarin vs McDavid situation lmao...

Again why do fans forget Kaprizov has Played 5 seasons in the KHL which happens to be a pro league? Bueller? Funny how this year age is not a factor when in previous years and years it has been a huge factor. Whatever fits your narrative I guess.

 

[space321]

Again why do fans forget Kaprizov has Played 5 seasons in the KHL which happens to be a pro league? Bueller? Funny how this year age is not a factor when in previous years and years it has been a huge factor. Whatever fits your narrative I guess.

On the second page of this thread, you were complaining about media coverage, and now you're still using Kaprizov's KHL experience to discredit him. And then you cry when the same is done to Robertson with regards to his linemates. I don't have a narrative, just observations, and I just find your entire stance hypocritical.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

Again why do fans forget Kaprizov has Played 5 seasons in the KHL which happens to be a pro league? Bueller? Funny how this year age is not a factor when in previous years and years it has been a huge factor. Whatever fits your narrative I guess.

The KHL is not the NHL. The NHL decided that based on eligibility rules, Kaprizov is a rookie. The KHL storyline doesn’t matter other than for two reasons. One, there is probably a discussion to be had about whether players like Kaprizov SHOULD be eligible or not. That’s an entirely separate topic from the current reality. The reality is that based on the current rules Kaprizov is eligible for the Calder. If Kaprizov is eligible, than his years in the KHL don’t matter when discussing who should win the Calder based on the performance of eligible players.

You or I or voters don’t get to make our own rules, we vote within the set of rules given to us.

The KHL conversation does impact conversations about the player that Kaprizov will become. If he’s already in his prime, than he may not trend upwards as much as he would if he was 18 and producing at this level. Again, this has nothing to do with whether Kaprizov is having the best season among players eligible for the Calder.

The KHL storyline and factor is fine to touch on, but all you’re really doing is whining about the current eligibility rules... that has nothing to do with Kaprizov nor does it strengthen any of Robertson’s argument. It’s actually pretty desperate to try to push an argument for Robertson’s case based on disagreeing with the NHL eligibility rules rather than the merit of the two players play itself.

So it’s fair to bring up, but it’s a boring topic outside of the discussion around whether eligibility rules should be changed going forward. That’s something I might even agree with you on, but it’s a discussion about the NHL...not Kaprizov or the Calder race.

 

[Unspecified]

The KHL is not the NHL. The NHL decided that based on eligibility rules, Kaprizov is a rookie. The KHL storyline doesn’t matter other than for two reasons. One, there is probably a discussion to be had about whether players like Kaprizov SHOULD be eligible or not. That’s an entirely separate topic from the current reality. The reality is that based on the current rules Kaprizov is eligible for the Calder. If Kaprizov is eligible, than his years in the KHL don’t matter when discussing who should win the Calder based on the performance of eligible players.

You or I or voters don’t get to make our own rules, we vote within the set of rules given to us.

The KHL conversation does impact conversations about the player that Kaprizov will become. If he’s already in his prime, than he may not trend upwards as much as he would if he was 18 and producing at this level. Again, this has nothing to do with whether Kaprizov is having the best season among players eligible for the Calder.

The KHL storyline and factor is fine to touch on, but all you’re really doing is whining about the current eligibility rules... that has nothing to do with Kaprizov nor does it strengthen any of Robertson’s argument. It’s actually pretty desperate to try to push an argument for Robertson’s case based on disagreeing with the NHL eligibility rules rather than the merit of the two players play itself.

So it’s fair to bring up, but it’s a boring topic outside of the discussion around whether eligibility rules should be changed going forward. That’s something I might even agree with you on, but it’s a discussion about the NHL...not Kaprizov or the Calder race.

The KHL is regarded as the 2nd best Pro league outside of the NHL so yes it matters to a point. Plus you are holding it against me for mentioning his KHL experience yet you did the exact same thing when comparing Robertson. I brought up the KHL because you started using Robertson's 3 previous NHL games last season was some kind of measuring stick of his success.

What about the fact that Robertson has previous NHL experience? Or the fact he grew up playing on an NHL sized rink? Kaprizov literally never played in NA before, so isn't it an accomplishment that he's been able to transition so seamlessly to NHL ice?

Just give you whataboutism's a rest!

 

[space321]

Just give you whataboutism's a rest!

whataboutisms? wtf this is a hockey board dude not politics...

I'm being serious that transitioning from international sized rink to NHL's smaller size rink is not a foregone conclusion. The fact that Kaprizov has been able to do it without missing a beat is impressive. There are many players who came before him who lit up the KHL but couldn't hack it in the NHL.

 

[Rob Brown]

 

[Unspecified]

whataboutisms? wtf this is a hockey board dude not politics...

I'm being serious that transitioning from international sized rink to NHL's smaller size rink is not a foregone conclusion. The fact that Kaprizov has been able to do it without missing a beat is impressive. There are many players who came before him who lit up the KHL but couldn't hack it in the NHL.

Coming from the CHL and having 3 NHL games under his belt is all but a guarantee he will succeeded? Do you hear yourself? Your defending a guy who has 5-6 years as a Pro player and discounting another with 3 Pro games under his belt prior to this season. FFS just let is rest already, your digging a bigger hole with every post.

 

[District 5]

This is a great interview. I feel like a few posters on here should watch this more than once.

 

[space321]

Coming from the CHL and having 3 NHL games under his belt is all but a guarantee he will succeeded? Do you hear yourself? Your defending a guy who has 5-6 years as a Pro player and discounting another with 3 Pro games under his belt prior to this season. FFS just let is rest already, your digging a bigger hole with every post.

I'm merely pointing out another perspective on the KHL thing. And merely pointing out that Robertson is not some 18 year old kid with no experience. Robertson and Kaprizov are only TWO YEARS APART IN AGE.

Whatever i'm preaching to the f***ing idiot choir lmao

 

[Unspecified]

I'm merely pointing out another perspective on the KHL thing. And merely pointing out that Robertson is not some 18 year old kid with no experience. Robertson and Kaprizov are only TWO YEARS APART IN AGE.

Whatever i'm preaching to the f***ing idiot choir lmao

3 games for a total of 12 minutes of ice time in those games combined. Yet that some how makes him more ready for the NHL as a full time player than someone who has 5-6 Pro years under his belt. Age is a factor as it is every single year for Calder voting. Players who have the same success at a younger age in the NHL gets a feather in their hat when voting starts. It is just how it is.

You must be the band director of the idiot choir then because the one-sided nonsense is staggering.

 

[Rob Brown]

3 games for a total of 12 minutes of ice time in those games combined. Yet that some how makes him more ready for the NHL as a full time player than someone who has 5-6 Pro years under his belt. Age is a factor as it is every single year for Calder voting. Players who have the same success at a younger age in the NHL gets a feather in their hat when voting starts. It is just how it is.

You must be the band director of the idiot choir then because the one-sided nonsense is staggering.

I don't think anyone said that Robertson was more NHL ready than Kaprizov, but perhaps I missed it.

Regardless, the whining in this thread is ridiculous. Take it up with the NHL, but tearing down a young player who is eligible in the eyes of the league and should win the trophy is so lame. Watch the video I posted above. Fake outrage is a good way to put it.

If Robertson was winning over an 18 year old you none of you would be complaining.

 

[P10p]

3 games for a total of 12 minutes of ice time in those games combined. Yet that some how makes him more ready for the NHL as a full time player than someone who has 5-6 Pro years under his belt. Age is a factor as it is every single year for Calder voting. Players who have the same success at a younger age in the NHL gets a feather in their hat when voting starts. It is just how it is.

You must be the band director of the idiot choir then because the one-sided nonsense is staggering.

Funny how you cry about personal attacks when someone disagrees with you but yet look who has their panties in a bunch.

 

[thestonedkoala]

3 games for a total of 12 minutes of ice time in those games combined. Yet that some how makes him more ready for the NHL as a full time player than someone who has 5-6 Pro years under his belt.

You are also forgetting the entire season he had playing in the Stars' AHL system, and that he had two pro training camps (and who knows what else) to get himself prepared to play in the NHL. Given that he was an OHL player, I'm guessing that he spent the offseason learning and developing with the Stars' before being sent back to the OHL. In fact, he tweeted that in 2017 and in 2018. So, the Stars' had a huge hand in Robertson's development since he was drafted.

You also have the fact that Robertson got to play on North American ice for most of his career, which many experts have stated is a determent to many international players coming over as they have to adapt to the smaller ice size. Robertson also speaks English and is accustomed to North America culture.

If it was so easy for 'pro' players in the KHL to translate their game to the NHL, then guys like Gusev (who were stars in the KHL) should become stars in the NHL. Or the equivalent. Gusev, Shipachyov, Lehtonen, Barabanov, and even to the extent that Tolvanen struggled a lot to adapt to the NHL/AHL.

Here are some players that are in the top 10 of scoring in the KHL:
Stephane De Costa (career high in 18 goals and 58 points in the AHL)
Brian O'Neill (career high is 26 goals and 80 points in the AHL)
Markus Granlund (played in the NHL for a few seasons)
Reid Boucher (again played in the NHL for a few seasons)
Jori Lehtera (again played in the NHL for a few seasons)

Being a star in the KHL doesn't mean at all that the player is going to be a star in the NHL. In fact, more players struggle to translate their game from the KHL to the NHL - which is why Gusev is on his fourth NHL team, Shipachyov is back in Russia and Barabanov has been traded.

Finally, no one said that Kaprizov wasn't going to be a star in the NHL. The fact that his game adapted so smoothly and almost effortlessly between the two leagues is massive. A lot of experts cautioned that Kaprizov's first season or even two may be rough. Everyone hoped (and that's the keyword here) that he'd be the offensive catalyst for Minnesota, but were relying more on Fiala to be the offensive spark. The fact that Kaprizov is 10th in goals is astounding for a young player in his first season in the NHL. When Panarin came over, he was 20th in goals. Kaprizov is on pace for 39 goals in his rookie season. Even for someone that is 23-24 year's old that is astounding. Not a lot of players can do that in their first NHL season, regardless of how old they are. Think about it; how many NCAA seniors translate that smoothly from the NCCA to the NHL? How many free agents signed from International come over and score 39? Even Panarin couldn't do that with Kane stapled to his other wing.

 

[space321]

You are also forgetting the entire season he had playing in the Stars' AHL system, and that he had two pro training camps (and who knows what else) to get himself prepared to play in the NHL. Given that he was an OHL player, I'm guessing that he spent the offseason learning and developing with the Stars' before being sent back to the OHL. In fact, he tweeted that in 2017 and in 2018. So, the Stars' had a huge hand in Robertson's development since he was drafted.

You also have the fact that Robertson got to play on North American ice for most of his career, which many experts have stated is a determent to many international players coming over as they have to adapt to the smaller ice size. Robertson also speaks English and is accustomed to North America culture.

If it was so easy for 'pro' players in the KHL to translate their game to the NHL, then guys like Gusev (who were stars in the KHL) should become stars in the NHL. Or the equivalent. Gusev, Shipachyov, Lehtonen, Barabanov, and even to the extent that Tolvanen struggled a lot to adapt to the NHL/AHL.

Don't forget that Kaprizov has a language barrier, which can be a huge hurdle to overcome. For example, Puljujarvi in his earlier seasons struggled in part due to communication problems.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Don't forget that Kaprizov has a language barrier, which can be a huge hurdle to overcome. For example, Puljujarvi in his earlier seasons struggled in part due to communication problems.

I did highlight that, which is why you see a bit of an uptick in Kaprizov's production since Zuccs came back from injury.

 

[MuckOG]

I did highlight that, which is why you see a bit of an uptick in Kaprizov's production since Zuccs came back from injury.

My understanding is that the only Russian that Zuccarello knows are the cuss words. Maybe that helps.

 

[Wats]

Who's the consensus number 3 after Kaprisov/Robertson?

 

[Dr Pepper]

Who's the consensus number 3 after Kaprisov/Robertson?

I'd say Nedeljkovic or Shestyorkin......Nedeljkovic only has 22 games played, but he's still putting up some obscene numbers.

Maybe Norris.

Frankly I don't think there IS a consensus #3, to be honest.

 

[serp]

My pick for 3 is Nedeljkovic but i don't think it really matters. Shestyorkin played most games as a goalie with good stats , Nedeljkovics stats are fantastic but he only played 22 so far. Maybe Canadian hockey media votes for one of the Sens guys ? Dunno. I would hope Kaprizov and Robertson are 1 and 2 the 3rd is pretty wide open who voters could pick.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

1) Kaprizov
2) Robertson
3) Nedeljkovic

 

[frisco]

Not to hijack, but who has the better NHL career when all is said and done--Robertson or Kaprizov? In my mind, although Kaprizov is older and a later start, I still think he's going to be better than Robertson in the long haul. And I like Robertson quite a bit.

My Best-Carey

 

[Sens]

Not to hijack, but who has the better NHL career when all is said and done--Robertson or Kaprizov? In my mind, although Kaprizov is older and a later start, I still think he's going to be better than Robertson in the long haul. And I like Robertson quite a bit.

My Best-Carey

Robertson has not been getting 1st unit pp ice time and has just been crushing at ES.

if the ES production is sustainable you’re looking at 6’3, 215lb winger who can put up 30-35G and 90Pts who could perhaps hit 100 a couple times

That’s going to be a tough player to be better than

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Robertson has not been getting 1st unit pp ice time and has just been crushing at ES.

if the ES production is sustainable you’re looking at 6’3, 215lb winger who can put up 30-35G and 90Pts who could perhaps hit 100 a couple times

That’s going to be a tough player to be better than

I don't think he hits those numbers, people are buying the hype on Robertson a bit too much. He is good, has 80-85 point potential, but I highly doubt he pushes 90 ever.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I like Robertson's consistency 5x5. Pretty incredible really so if/when he finally plays PP minutes and if he can stay healthy I think he might have the higher floor of the two. Kaprizov is a bit streaky and has more than once turned a pretty ordinary game into a point or two by just being so gifted offensively. If the Wild find him a legit #1 C, higher ceiling of the two.

IMO