R.J. Umberger

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Levitate

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Jul 29, 2004
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he was practicing with the pack as part of his "try out", that's how his "teammates" didn't like him

dunno, the attitude thing has kinda dogged him and the rangers have flat out said that he wasn't the kind of player they wanted in their organization after they put him through the paces (they want hardworking players)

maybe he turns out good, maybe he doesn't...either way he wasn't gonna make it easy for the rangers to sign him, it was obvious he wanted to test the market and signed with the flyers cuz they threw the most cash at him.
 

NYR469

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Reign Nateo said:
The "attitude problem" that he has been labelled with is BS. I have heard that 1. The Rangers didn't like him because he wouldn't report to the Wolfpack (Duh, he had no contract) and 2. That the players didn't like him. Which is it?

he did report to hartford and signed a tryout deal with them. the only thing he refused to do was play in the ahl playoffs without a real contract for insurance reasons (can't blame him for that)...

and he WAS disliked by teammates in hartford because they felt that he floated thru practice like his ***** didn't stink. there is no denying his skill, but his work ethic has been questioned...

and also keep in mind that when he joined hartford it was the end of the season and he was joining a tight nit group that had been in first place all season. so umberger comes in as an outsider and doesn't do what they expect him to do and it rubs guys the wrong way...odds are if he started the season there and was going those things during training camp it would have been viewed differently

there are a LOT of prospects with a ton of potential that have their character and work ethic questioned, and in many cases it is simply becaue they are only 18-19 years old and those problems will go away with maturity. saying that umberger needs to mature to reach his full potential doesn't mean he'll become a bust, it just simply means that he has some maturing to do.
 

Levitate

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isn't umberger like 22 at this point or something though?

and it's not always about maturing...some guys just work hard and some don't, no matter how old or "mature" they are.

now if that applies to umberger...not sure yet, but i think there is a little cause for concern considering it is something that has followed him through his "career". not saying he's crap or anything...obviously he's doing well at this point, but i dont' think that completely answers all the questions about him yet either. so, wait and see
 

Kovy274Hart

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John Flyers Fan said:
Any reasons other than a few hundred thousand dollars that neither the Rangers nor Canucks signed him ???

After a slow start, this season he's certainly shown why he was a first round pick.

15 points for the season and 11 in his last nine games. Currentlt the Phantoms second line center, and playing on the PP.

Looks like he could use another 10 lbs. of muscle, but you could say that about just about every yound kid.


Attitude and work ethic.
 

Kovy274Hart

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Reign Nateo said:
The "attitude problem" that he has been labelled with is BS. I have heard that 1. The Rangers didn't like him because he wouldn't report to the Wolfpack (Duh, he had no contract) and 2. That the players didn't like him. Which is it?

His agent is Brian Lawton which is disturbing and probably key to this label he has gotten.

The Canucks tried to low-ball him, he and his agent beleived he was worth the money consistent with where he was picked. Several teams agreed and the Flyers got a steal.

The attitude problem is IMO a fabrication of the two teams that couldn't sign him. There is a plethora of reasons that the Rangers may not have signed him and we'll never know. But the point is that he is a hell of a hockey player that both the Canucks and Rangers could use.


I believe you're wrong about it being a crock. Several players disliked Umberger and have been on record that they sensed he thought he was better than them.

I'd rather have guys who are team oriented that fit in than some guy who might be a headcase.

Best of luck to Umberger in his pro career.
 

Kovy274Hart

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Doesn't matter now. The Rangers organization made a decision that Umberger wasn't worth the risk. Does it mean he won't have a good career? No.

Just means they felt better off getting the compensatory pick, who I can't remember what it turned into. Might have been Bruce Graham.
 

Jacob

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rangers have flat out said that he wasn't the kind of player they wanted in their organization after they put him through the paces (they want hardworking players)
To quote Moe Sizlack;

WHAAAAAAAA?
 

Levitate

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i'm actually not exaggerating that...apparently they were none too kind when speaking about him at one of the open forums they've held this year.

though i do wonder if umberger might have slacked off because he didn't want to be with the rangers, or maybe (just maybe) the rangers are exaggerating some :) but i wouldn't think they'd go that far if there wasn't something about him that really irked them...many people in the organization weren't thrilled with umbergers tryouts, and then add the fact that his asking price skyrocketed when he was traded to the rangers...
 

BLACKBURN

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As soon as I saw the title "R.J Umberger" and saw the poster I thought here we go, another "our prospect is great, look he has scored lots of points" thread. I hate these sort of threads, they just turns into meaningless arguments about who's prospects are better and why other teams suck. I personally didnt like R.J. and was pleased to get the pick.

Should I start a Henrik Lunduqist thread?

* 15 wins in 21 games
* 0.935 save %
* 1.75 Gaa
* Arguably the best goalie in Sweden

Maybe I wont as it will just turn into a "my organization's golalies are better" thread. Seriously, What's the point in this thread, everyone knows why he was'nt signed by the Rangers and Canucks.
 

Flyers_UK

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I'll try to stay objective on this, because I am obviously very pleased with the way Umberger has played, however:

The "attitude problem", although debatable, came from somewhere, and is still a concern to me. A kid should play his heart out to get to the NHL, _even_ if it's the Rangers.

The money grabbing, i'm not so sure about. I blame the agent entirely for this.

As usual, many people are overating the value of money. This is currently NOT a capped league, and a team like the Flyers can afford to spend the money on a risk. In fact, inticipating a lock out, and since he won't even be earning that much if not in the big league, they'd be stupid not to. In hockey terms, they got a guy for free, who at the very least, will be worth a mid round pick or another AHL guy even if he doesn't pan out.

Does this mean Vancouver and the Rangers were fools and got shafted? No, of course not. Vancouver traded him when he had value, and the Rangers got a 2nd round pick. Again, a gamble, but even a Flyers fan like me would say prior to his stretch in the AHL, there is no way Umberger would go in the 1st round 04. A 2nd round pick is a good alternative if your scouts don't like him.

The only real knock is his possible attitude, and I've yet to it yet. After being signed, he talked of hard work, getting back into shape, and a year or so in the AHL. His coach liked him enough to trade White, and he currently plays 2nd line on a good team.

To sum it up, both the Flyers, Vancouver and the Rangers made the smart moves, Toronto and Pitsberg missed out.
 

JR#9*

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I was hoping the NYR's would've signed him due to center being our weakest position amoung prospects and was upset when they let him walk but in 2 season ticket holder events I attended in the last month with both Renney and Don Maloney present as well as Sam and JD they explained when asked about the situation that RJ "wasn't what they were looking for in their prospects for the future" and also said he wasn't in th elast well recieved amoung the players in Hartford who took an instant dislike for him and felt his work ethtic and bad attitude were the reason why.

Maybe the kid matures beyond this, maybe not.The tools are all there so who knows.It was worth a gamble w/o a doubt for the Flyers b/c it's only money.They can not resign him if he turns out to be the dog some think he is but if he pans out they made a great move.
 

Levitate

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The only real knock is his possible attitude, and I've yet to it yet. After being signed, he talked of hard work, getting back into shape, and a year or so in the AHL. His coach liked him enough to trade White, and he currently plays 2nd line on a good team.

he talked about those things when he was first traded to the rangers too :)

dunno, it's hard to say...i wanted him signed so at least he'd be given a shot...but i won't cry too much...i won't curse the rangers for letting him go if he becomes a good player (i dont' think he would have been more than a 2nd line NHL center anyways, and we have some prospects who can fill that hole, including one who is currently leading the finnish elite league in scoring :) ) stuff like that happens and at least the rangers got something out of it.
 

Flyers_UK

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Levitate said:
(i dont' think he would have been more than a 2nd line NHL center anyways, and we have some prospects who can fill that hole, including one who is currently leading the finnish elite league in scoring :) )

Don't think he will be _more_ than a 2nd line center!? If he makes a scoring line while still young, then the Rangers were robbed.

However, that is a BIG if, and if I were you, i'd be happy with a 2nd round pick and getting a guy 4 or so years younger. If the Phantoms speak out against Umberger, i'd want him gone, too, but I still wouldn't regret the chance we gave him.

Both teams played things pretty well over this guy.
 

Reign Nateo

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So if I understand this correctly, the Rangers had a hot shot rookie who hadn't played all year practise with a team that was gearing up for a championship, without a contract? Of course he wouldn't fit in. Then they asked him to play for them without a contract? I'd a told them to shove it up their ass too.
 

Blane Youngblood

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Flyers_UK said:
Both teams played things pretty well over this guy.

I think the Canucks were the only team that played Umberger badly, and honestly, a decent rental for Umberger and Grenier isn't that bad (note, it is still bad mind you).

I think it's a little early to be jumping on the Umberger bandwagon though, he's putting up very Artem Chubarov type numbers (truth be told though, we all get excited when our prospects do well, I'm currently on the Jason King bandwagon).
 
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