Prospect Info: Quinn Hughes, Pt. IV (Pagnotta: Expected to sign after Michigan's season ends)

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Zombotron, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Josepho

    Josepho don't want you in my bloodline, yuh

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    For the most part the company he's in doesn't exactly tell much. Here's a list of the Top 10 NCAA U20 Defencemen by P/G since the 2000-2001 season (I would've just posted the eliteprospects chart but they haven't updated the Hughes assists and that bothers me).

    1) Quinn Hughes [1.16]
    2) Adam Fox (2016-2017) [1.14]
    3) Ron Hainsey [1.09]
    4) Jack Johnson [1.08]
    5) Jake Walman [1.04]
    6) Zach Werenski [1.00]
    7) Patrick Wiercioch [0.97]
    8) Adam Fox (2017-2018) [0.97]
    9) Reilly Walsh [0.95]
    10) Gavin Bayreuther [0.95]

    The fact that he's at the top is obviously encouraging but this isn't like Pettersson's +1 where he's basically exclusively surrounded by elite level NHL talent. I count three NHL regulars and two actual worthwhile players in Hainsey and Werenski.
     
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  2. Orca Smash

    Orca Smash Registered User

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    These are such difficult stats because then you have guys like makar who are 3-4 months past your cut off and what value do you place on that? Also guys like charlie mcavoy are promising d-men that may have missed that list and had lesser stats. Duncan keith did not make that list. Nor ryan suter.

    Furthermore that speaks more to the quality of league then it does the player, naturally as you go up the ranks from liiga to shl to khl you will see more successful certainty of players given the talent of star players in a men's league compared to the jr leagues such as the Q for instance. But it does not mean the Q cant produce a great d-men, just that its riskier.

    Everything is relative.

    This will be a player either im very wrong on in two years or will be correct on
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  3. Josepho

    Josepho don't want you in my bloodline, yuh

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    My entire point was moreso in response to the claim that he was having an Elite +1. I think he's just having a decent +1, a tier or two below what Boeser and Pettersson were doing. I still think he'll be a good player but the other two made it obvious that they were going to be something else at the NHL level and Hughes still has some question marks in my eyes.

    I chose 2000 randomly since the 90s and 80s had some wonky as hell numbers.
     
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  4. Orca Smash

    Orca Smash Registered User

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    He is having an elite +1 season, im not sure how you can dispute that, wether it translates remains to be seen, all you have done was suggest given the quality of league and company he is in, it is less of certainty then pettersson or boeser. Although if you did the same for boeser for u20 players would there not be similar hit and misses? I assume parise will be in that list, but how many high end nhl players beyond that? And then you consider the fact boeser had a better D+1 then D+2 season...

    Again, we will see. Guys like ryan suter or duncan keith also did not make the list given your criteria (not enough points in d+1 season).
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. Dropbears88

    Dropbears88 Registered User

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  6. Jack Burton

    Jack Burton Pro Tank Since 13

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    Take it and
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  7. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2020/2021 = Canucks being a contender

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    I’m interested to see what the Canucks’ defense will look like in March with Hughes here. Furthermore, I’m interested in seeing what our defense would like with Hughes in it and Edler still out.

    What I’m getting to is this: IF (and this is a big IF obviously) the Canucks’ defense looks pretty decent under this arrangement and IF the Canucks maintain a similar point pace to what they had with Edler in the line-up, then I think the Canucks should strongly consider parting ways with Edler in the off season.

    Use that Edler money for help on left wing or right defense.

    If Baertschi retires and Dahlen isn’t ready, the need for another left winger becomes even greater.
     
  8. boligno

    boligno Registered User

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    Pettersson's +1 was miles ahead of Boeser's, not even close. I don't think it's possible to state whether Boeser's or Hughes' +1 was/is better given the fact they play different positions (the things you want to see Hughes improve on don't necessarily show up in counting stats) and the vast disparity in QoT.
     
  9. Catamarca Livin

    Catamarca Livin Registered User

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    Boeser had a great d 1 year d 2 was not great. Are we are going to start comparing our prospects to Petterson's d 1? It was one of the best ever outside the NHL. Hughes seems to be doing okay like I said 2 months ago his d 1 season is still happening he could still lead us to the playoffs this year for all we know. Let's compare the finished d 1 years.
     
  10. PorscheDesign

    PorscheDesign Registered User

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    Over a PPG in college for a defenceman in his d+1 season is an elite season.
     
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  11. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    Melvin, to follow up on this, here is what each site had sourced their information from:

    Elite Prospects:

    HockeyDB:


    So they are both referencing the college height marker as their primary source.

    Still no word from nhl.com.

    Will keep everyone posted.
     
  12. Luck 6

    Luck 6 \\_______

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    This is true and further reinforced by the fact that he’s also leading his team in scoring, this would suggest that he is driving the play.

    What some others are saying is there is no guarantee that this translates to the NHL, it is less likely for it to be translatable as defenseman need to do much more than score.

    Two different points entirely. Both correct.
     
  13. Cogburn

    Cogburn Registered User

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    I thought him driving play was the selling point.

    "Doing other stuff" is something we have several D that do well and at least one prospect that projects to be able to do that well. I thought that is why we wanted/planned on keeping Tanev, and Edler, and to a lesser extent Hutton and Stecher. I thought that is why everyone harps/harped on players like Gudbranson, Pouliot, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Bieksa, Bartkowski and so many other, is that they didn't do "other stuff" well, and couldn't drive the play.

    What we do not have is a defenseman that can drive the play offensively. The only thing close to that is Edler, who can't do it alone. We might have had that in Juolevi, but with the way his development and injuries have gone, who knows.

    I'm very excited for this, and regardless of what it might imply for the expansion draft, I hope we can sign him directly out of University this year.
     
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  14. Breakers

    Breakers Registered User

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    Going PPG when Michigan loses 3 of their top 4 scorers from the year before and loses their #1 center to injury is a very good season.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  15. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

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    Toss up still isn't it?

    Makar has the better shot.. which is a significant attribute at the NHL level.
    Both are high level skaters... Hughes with an edge cuz I haven't seen Makar do the things I've seen Hughes do in clips.
    I would give Makar the edge in hands since I haven't seen Hughes do what Makar did in that clip in you linked.
    Both have passing ability - transitional and PP..

    Makar (R), Hughes (L)

    A case could very well be made for Makar potentially being more essential for us if we had a choice.

    We will see... I don't think there's much separating em...
     
  16. StreetHawk

    StreetHawk Registered User

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    Of all of the teams that could miss the playoffs and thus get J. Hughes, Avs are probably the only one that could make a deal with us to acquire Q. Hughes. Canucks can't afford to not get a Dman back, so Makar for Hughes would be fair.

    LA/Chi/Det/Phi/AZ/EDM/Ana/Buf/Car/FLA/NJ/NYR etc down the line, I don't know if there would be a deal to be made.

    Could we pry Provorov for Q. Hughes? I doubt it.
    Would N. Lundqvist be the basis of a deal from NY? Probably not.
    Anaheim - would have to be a package with one of their D.
    Carolina - Slavin/Pesce plus something?
     
  17. PorscheDesign

    PorscheDesign Registered User

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    Hughes is a on a slightly higher PPG pace than Makar which is quite impressive considering Hughes was drafted a year later and is actually the leading scorer of his team.
     
  18. GoodBetterBoest

    GoodBetterBoest The Golden Alien

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    IMO Hughes is a better prospect than Makar overall and has a higher ceiling.

    I’d say Makar has a higher floor and a more transferable skillset. He definitely plays grittier and has a much better shot. Skating and hands are mostly equal. Hughes is a year younger with better passing and hockey IQ.
     
  19. TruKnyte

    TruKnyte Registered User

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    I really hope Hughes' game translates to the NHL. Would almost make up for the whiff on Juolevi.
     
  20. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    If we're looking at UFAs though, there isn't much on right side this year. Karlsson is huge obviously, but he'd be a pipe dream. After that, there's Stralman, who is somewhat similar to a right handed Edler, then Tyler Myers, who has fallen hard, and a host of mediocre bottom pairing guys (Girardi, McQuaid, Lovejoy, Engelland). With Hughes, but without Edler, Pouliot would still be 3rd on the depth chart among LD though, which is a disaster. Probably better to keep Edler around if he comes at a reasonable deal unless someone blackmails Karlsson.
     
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  21. Luck 6

    Luck 6 \\_______

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    I don’t understand how we don’t keep Edler, even if Hughes comes in and does well. If we’re starting to think we’re at a place to consider competing before some of our ELCs are up, we can’t subtract our best defenseman. If anything I’d like to add another.
     
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  22. racerjoe

    racerjoe Registered User

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    Because if he wants long term he is probably going to fall off a cliff in the back of the contract?

    Because we haven't actually improved at all?

    Because we still desperately need more young talent to compete?

    Just a few of the reasons that come to mind. I would still sign him depending on term.
     
  23. Neddam ot Sehguh

    Neddam ot Sehguh Nelhad ot Oow

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    Injured. Aint going nowhere
     
  24. PorscheDesign

    PorscheDesign Registered User

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    I wouldn't say Juolevi is done, he was having a good rookie season in the AHL with an injured knee. His development has been stalled but he may turn out to be a good top 4 defenceman in a year or 2.
     
  25. TruKnyte

    TruKnyte Registered User

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    I hope he turns out to be a player for us as well. At the moment though if I could go back and redo that pick I would.
     

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