Prospect Info: Quinn Hughes, Pt. IV

[Breakers]

He got absolutely embarrassed by Sheehy on the 3rd goal and it was just bad defense and he was flat footed.

Been pushing the pace otherwise.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Defensemen are, on average, 2 inches taller than forwards. Being 5'8" for a defender is like being 5'6" for a forward.

The defenders to debut since 1990 who have been 5'9" and shorter, with a weight between 160 and 180 lbs are:

Jared Spurgeon
Torey Krug
Tom Pederson (240 NHL games)
Matt Grzelcyk (63)
Dave Warsofsky (55)
Dan Lambert (29)
Joe Hicketts (13)
Chay Genoway (1)

That's it. For the last ~30 years, those are his size peers.

Both Spurgeon and Krug were 21 by the time they were ready for the NHL. If he steps in as a 19 year old and is anything close to a star, it would be one of the most remarkable accomplishments in NHL history.

Question: Why are you categorizing Hughes as being 5'9" and shorter? He's listed at 5'10" on Elite Prospects and HockeyDB.

 

[Melvin]

Question: Why are you categorizing Hughes as being 5'9" and shorter? He's listed at 5'10" on Elite Prospects and HockeyDB.

This is kind of the key isn't it. I have him as 5'9" in my database, which is based on how he was listed by nhl.com at the draft. It would be nice to know what his actual height is.

Edit: 2018 NHL Draft

 

[polarbearcub]

Beauty of an assist too, WOW

Wow wow wow......

 

[Bleach Clean]

This is kind of the key isn't it. I have him as 5'9" in my database, which is based on how he was listed by nhl.com at the draft. It would be nice to know what his actual height is.

Per my recollection, he wasn't measured at the combine. So I'm wondering where they are pulling that statistic from?

Two of the major database reference sites have him at 5'10" with different weight stats: 170 lbs and 174 lbs. Those same sites have Spurgeon and Krug at 5'9", so that validates your grouping of them in your list. At the same time, Hughes is defined as being outside that list range by the same sites.

As I had mentioned previous: Until we get a recent official height measurement to the contrary, 5'10" has to be the referenced marker.

 

[Melvin]

Per my recollection, he wasn't measured at the combine. So I'm wondering where they are pulling that statistic from?

Two of the major database reference sites have him at 5'10" with different weight stats: 170 lbs and 174 lbs. Those same sites have Spurgeon and Krug at 5'9", so that validates your grouping of them in your list. At the same time, Hughes is defined as being outside that list range by the same sites.

As I had mentioned previous: Until we get a recent official height measurement to the contrary, 5'10" has to be the referenced marker.

I don't agree. I consider nhl.com the official source. I don't know what those other websites have done to be considered more official than the NHL.

Once he plays an NHL game this should be settled.

 

[strattonius]

Who cares if hes 69 or 70 inches tall. It means nothing.

The only question is whether his elite talent translates well to the nhl level.

I have to be honest, I've never been as confident with a Canucks prospect as I am with Hughes. I think his skill level will allow him to overcome whatever obstacles he faces going forward.
This obviously means nothing as I also thought Pettersson was another year away from making the NHL.

 

[Melvin]

Who cares if hes 69 or 70 inches tall. It means nothing.

The only question is whether his elite talent translates well to the nhl level.

I have to be honest, I've never been as confident with a Canucks prospect as I am with Hughes. I think his skill level will allow him to overcome whatever obstacles he faces going forward.
This obviously means nothing as I also thought Pettersson was another year away from making the NHL.

It doesn't mean nothing.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't agree. I consider nhl.com the official source. I don't know what those other websites have done to be considered more official than the NHL.

Once he plays an NHL game this should be settled.

The NHL pulls their height ratios from the combine. Hughes wasn’t measured at the combine, so where is that number coming from?

You can take NHL.com as an official source. I won’t until I know where they are pulling that number from if they received no data from the combine. I’ll also back check to see where elite prospects and hockeydb get their data.

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

Quinn's size will always be a question mark until he makes the NHL and thrives, just like Petey. Or he'll hit a wall. It's not far away, we should get a look at him in a couple months. I'm really looking forward to it.

Personally, I think he's gonna need to tone it down. Not try to do everything himself. Pick his moments more carefully and refine his defensive game. I do think he'll adapt and be an impact player quickly. He's just such an amazing skater, I think it'll make up for any deficiencies of size and strength. Not to mention Quinn's shown biteback in the past, he's not a completely passive player.

 

[strattonius]

It doesn't mean nothing.

Hes a skill defenseman and we are all in hopes that he can qb a #1 pp going forward. Explain to me how being 1 inch shorter will impact his performance in the NHL?

 

[MS]

He’s closer to 5’8 than 5’10. There’s a reason he skipped the combine measurements.

 

[Melvin]

The NHL pulls their height ratios from the combine. Hughes wasn’t measured at the combine, so where is that number coming from?

You can take NHL.com as an official source. I won’t until I know where they are pulling that number from if they received no data from the combine. I’ll also back check to see where elite prospects and hockeydb get their data.

Why aren't you questioning where those other sources are pulling their data? Why are they assumed to be more official when you don't know?

 

[Melvin]

Hes a skill defenseman and we are all in hopes that he can qb a #1 pp going forward. Explain to me how being 1 inch shorter will impact his performance in the NHL?

I already did.

 

[polarbearcub]

Quinn's size will always be a question mark until he makes the NHL and thrives, just like Petey. Or he'll hit a wall. It's not far away, we should get a look at him in a couple months. I'm really looking forward to it.

Personally, I think he's gonna need to tone it down. Not try to do everything himself. Pick his moments more carefully and refine his defensive game. I do think he'll adapt and be an impact player quickly. He's just such an amazing skater, I think it'll make up for any deficiencies of size and strength. Not to mention Quinn's shown biteback in the past, he's not a completely passive player.

He’s similar to a young Doughty imo. Not in size but style. Doughty was a swashbuckler when he came in. Sutter toned him down but when he first came in to the nhl he was all over the ice .. often making horrible giveaways

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

He’s similar to a young Doughty imo. Not in size but style. Doughty was a swashbuckler when he came in. Sutter toned him down but when he first came in to the nhl he was all over the ice .. often making horrible giveaways

Yes, this is very common and it makes sense because Quinn carrying puck is Michigan's best chance at offense. But in the NHL there will be an adjustment period. I'm very confident he's going to be an impact player though. His skill is game-breaking, he's just amazing. Another big thing with him will be how well his shot develops. If he can practice his shot and develop a cannon he's going to be a very special player.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Did he shrink since the wc last year? That probably cemented his draft status. Maybe it makes a difference but arguing whether he is 5"8 or 5"10 definitely does not. The 1st overall this year and the current hart favorite are undersized player. You would think we would have learnt from the EP experience but still trying to define players by their measurments.

 

[GetFocht]

He’s closer to 5’8 than 5’10. There’s a reason he skipped the combine measurements.

He skipped the fitness testing because he just finished the World Championships, do you actually believe a player that is measured throughout his entire career skips the fitness testing for the sole reason of being paranoid about his height?

Your bias is showing again.

 

[Melvin]

The difference between Petey and Quinn, as has already been stated, are three fold:

1) forwards vs defensemen.
2) height vs weight. I have seen no evidence that weight concerns are legitimate. Height concerns are. Petey is 6'2"
3) Petey was already playing against men in Sweden. Hughes has never played against men.

Comparing the two is simply a waste of time.

 

[Icebreakers]

The difference between Petey and Quinn, as has already been stated, are three fold:

1) forwards vs defensemen.
2) height vs weight. I have seen no evidence that weight concerns are legitimate. Height concerns are. Petey is 6'2"
3) Petey was already playing against men in Sweden. Hughes has never played against men.

Comparing the two is simply a waste of time.

College is playing against men. Most guys in NCAA are 19-24.


It's a big difference strength wise vs 16-20 in junior

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

The difference between Petey and Quinn, as has already been stated, are three fold:

1) forwards vs defensemen.
2) height vs weight. I have seen no evidence that weight concerns are legitimate. Height concerns are. Petey is 6'2"
3) Petey was already playing against men in Sweden. Hughes has never played against men.

Comparing the two is simply a waste of time.

The comparison is bunk, but against your third point, Hughes does play against men in the NCAA. They might be 20-24ish but they're a lot closer to men than the CHL.

 

[Melvin]

College is playing against men. Most guys in NCAA are 19-24.


It's a big difference strength wise vs 16-20 in junior

point taken but what is the distribution vs the distribution in pro leagues?

 

[Icebreakers]

point taken but what is the distribution vs the distribution in pro leagues?

Doesn't really matter considering physical peak is probably in the early to mid 20s for most people. It's not like guys 33 are stronger than guys 23. Quinn's obstacle is his defensive IQ. Not size

 

[Melvin]

History is rife with defenders who could produce but simply were not tall enough to make it. Subban, deangelo, vande sompel, etc. Etc. Etc

History is not rife with high producing forwards who were tall enough but not heavy enough to make it. That was always a BS criticism of Pettersson.

 

[MS]

He skipped the fitness testing because he just finished the World Championships, do you actually believe a player that is measured throughout his entire career skips the fitness testing for the sole reason of being paranoid about his height?

Your bias is showing again.

Oh, come on.

The WCs finished on May 20, almost 2 weeks before the combine. CHL playoffs were still going on and the Memorial Cup hadn’t started yet.

All those other players who were still playing at that time made the combine. And the guys in the CHL had in many cases played nearly double the games that Hughes had.

There have been *numerous* cases over the years of guys with surprising measurements at the combine. It’s a big deal.

Hughes didn’t go to the combine because his agents (wisely) decided he had everything to lose and nothing to gain by having his true measurements posted and by having his tiny frame struggle badly in the fitness testing.

Personally I think the combine is kinda stupid and a place where bad drafting decisions get made based on things that aren’t playing hockey. I couldn’t care less how many chin-ups he can do. But if you think that decision was about ‘played in the World Championships’, *your* bias is showing.