Question regarding the 1991 entry draft - Sharks picking 2nd

[Zam Boni]

Why did the Sharks get to pick second overall when they were an expansion team?
Why not first, or last? Or did they trade up or down?
Second just seems like an odd number.

Could it have anything to do with some kid named Lindros?

Seriously, where do expansion team usually get to pick?

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[reckoning]

Could it have anything to do with some kid named Lindros?

Yes. That was the reason.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Seriously, where do expansion team usually get to pick?

There is no usual.

 

[Zam Boni]

There is no usual.

Yeah, I get there is no "usual" since expansions are the exceptions. But the NHL must have som rules of guidelines to determine who picks where, or dont they? Is it totaly random?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

It's not random. It's case by case. Often relative to the strength of the draft. If the first overall pick is deemed marketable, it isn't going to an expansion team. If it is deemed weak, then it might. Like the weird business with Anaheim and Florida.

 

[jkrx]

It's not random. It's case by case. Often relative to the strength of the draft. If the first overall pick is deemed marketable, it isn't going to an expansion team. If it is deemed weak, then it might. Like the weird business with Anaheim and Florida.

Elaborate about anaheim and florida please.

 

[Zam Boni]

OK, so it is fairly safe to say Sharks picked second because the NHL didnt want Lindros to play for an expansion team?

Anyway, checked wiki and if they are to be taken seriously, teams coming along since the Sharks has picked:

1991 Sharks 2nd
1992 Ligtning 1st
1992 Senators 2nd
1993 Ducks 4th
1993 Panters 5th
1998 Predators 2nd (Seems they traded their original 3rd pick)
1999 Thrashers 1st
2000 Wild 3rd
2000 Blue Jackets 4th

Hope that was all of them.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Elaborate about anaheim and florida please.

93 was their first draft, but that was supposed to be the best draft ever, so they were given the 4th and 5th picks. thus ensuring surefire future generational talents like Alexander Daigle and Chris Gratton didn't end up on first year teams. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.) So to "make up for this" they were guaranteed the 1st and 2nd picks in 1994 irregardless of how they finished.

This was actually a smart move as it gave them no incentive to tank, Florida took particularly well to this and loaded the team with veteran talents because they were guaranteed 1st overall even if they made the playoffs, so why not try hard to do it.

 

[jkrx]

93 was their first draft, but that was supposed to be the best draft ever, so they were given the 4th and 5th picks. thus ensuring surefire future generational talents like Alexander Daigle and Chris Gratton didn't end up on first year teams. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.) So to "make up for this" they were guaranteed the 1st and 2nd picks in 1994 irregardless of how they finished.

This was actually a smart move as it gave them no incentive to tank, Florida took particularly well to this and loaded the team with veteran talents because they were guaranteed 1st overall even if they made the playoffs, so why not try hard to do it.

Ah ok I did know that hey got to draft "late" but I didnt know they got 1st and 2nd overall draft picks for it. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

OK, so it is fairly safe to say Sharks picked second because the NHL didnt want Lindros to play for an expansion team?

Anyway, checked wiki and if they are to be taken seriously, teams coming along since the Sharks has picked:

1991 Sharks 2nd
1992 Ligtning 1st
1992 Senators 2nd
1993 Ducks 4th
1993 Panters 5th
1998 Predators 2nd (Seems they traded their original 3rd pick)
1999 Thrashers 1st
2000 Wild 3rd
2000 Blue Jackets 4th

Hope that was all of them.

In 99 the Thrashers traded for the #1 pick. The Sedin deals made everything crazy.

Tampa originally held the pick, Atlanta either had 2 or 3, I can't remember.

 

[Brodeur]

OK, so it is fairly safe to say Sharks picked second because the NHL didnt want Lindros to play for an expansion team?

Anyway, checked wiki and if they are to be taken seriously, teams coming along since the Sharks has picked:

1991 Sharks 2nd
1992 Ligtning 1st
1992 Senators 2nd
1993 Ducks 4th
1993 Panters 5th
1998 Predators 2nd (Seems they traded their original 3rd pick)
1999 Thrashers 1st
2000 Wild 3rd
2000 Blue Jackets 4th

Hope that was all of them.

(all off the top of my head)

The Sharks were originally slated to join the league in 1992-93 with Tampa/Ottawa, but their ownership pushed to get in a year sooner. Allegedly they were angling towards being awarded the Lindros pick. The NHL wasn't happy with the SJ owners pushing to get into the league sooner than anticipated, but ended up allowing it. But they assigned SJ the #2 pick.

The Ducks and Panthers flipped a coin regarding their draft positions in 1993 and 1994. Basically the choice was:

- pick 5th in 1993 and 1st in 1994 or
- pick 4th in 1993 and 2nd in 1994

I forget who won the toss, but the Panthers ended up with option A. So that's why Florida and Anaheim got the first two picks in the 1994 Draft despite not finishing in the bottom two.

The Predators were originally assigned #2 in 1998. San Jose won the lottery via Florida in the Viktor Kozlov trade. The Sharks had made a deal with Tampa at the deadline that year that allowed the Lightning the right to swap spots in the off chance that the Sharks won the lottery. Nashville traded back up to #2 on draft day.

The Thrashers had the #1 pick going into the draft lottery in 1999. Tampa won and jumped from #4 to #1. Through some side deals, Atlanta got back up to #1.

(Edit: Atlanta had the #2 pick going into the lottery. The Blackhawks won the draft lottery and moved from #8 to #4. Then all the trades went down which ended up putting Atlanta at #1, Vancouver at 2/3, and Tampa at #4.

I believe Minnesota/Columbus was another coin flip. Originally Minnesota was to pick #2 and Columbus #3. The Islanders won the lottery and jumped to #1 bumping the expansion teams down a spot.

 

[reckoning]

For the expansions in 1970, 1972 and 1974 the new clubs got the first selections in the draft.

But when the four WHA clubs joined in 1979, the NHL (after already pillaging the rosters of those teams and grabbing back almost all available players) decided to stick it to the WHA one last time by making those four teams pick at the end of the round after the 17 NHL teams had already selected. Edmonton and Quebec still managed to do well for themselves getting Goulet and Lowe in the first round and grabbing some key players with their later picks. Winnipeg on the other hand, used their first-rounder on Jimmy Mann

 

[kaiser matias]

Atlanta started out with the #2 pick in 1999 (don't know if the lottery had anything to do with them not having #1 though). Canucks had #3, and Burke made a bunch of trades, at one point owning #1-4 (though at different times). He had #1, and as he told a Vancouver reporter "didn't want to have to up go to the podium twice," so he switched his pick with Atlanta, selling them on the fact that they were an expansion team, and it would look good to have the first pick. The result was that Tampa, the original owners of the first overall pick, didn't select until 47th.

 

[Zam Boni]

Thanks everyone!

The knowledge in this section of the boards is simply amazing!

And the tone between posters is pretty much unmatched, thanks and keep the good spirit up!


The whole draft system is a bit puzzling when coming from a country where it isnt used.

 

[unknown33]

Anyway, checked wiki and if they are to be taken seriously, teams coming along since the Sharks has picked:

1991 Sharks 2nd
1992 Ligtning 1st
1992 Senators 2nd
1993 Ducks 4th
1993 Panters 5th
1998 Predators 2nd (Seems they traded their original 3rd pick)
1999 Thrashers 1st
2000 Wild 3rd
2000 Blue Jackets 4th

Hope that was all of them.

The NHL doesn't like consitency, parity or a concept that makes sense I guess.

 

[ES]

I think in last three expansions teams have been given 2nd spot prior to lottery. Exception is Columbus who came at the same time as Minnesota, therefore they were 3rd.

IIRC Sharks was 3rd last and won the lottery in 1998. Bolts had a chance to swap picks and did so. Sharks and Preds changed also so Preds was 2nd.

1999 original order was TB-Atl-Van-Chi. Chicago was lottery winner and moved from 8th to 4th. Vancouver then made the moves to get both Sedins so Atlanta got the first pick after all.

2000 Islanders won the lottery from the 5th spot, dropping Minnesota and Columbus one spot in the process.

 

[iamjs]

Original draft order was

1st - TBL
2nd - ATL
3rd - VAN
4th - CHI

Tampa trades first overall pick to VAN for Canucks first round pick (4th overall) and two third round picks (picks 75 and 88)

At this point, Vancouver has the first and third overall picks with Atlanta scheduled to pick second. In order to draft the Sedins, they wanted the back to back picks. Vancouver sends the first overall to Atlanta and a conditional 3rd in 2000 for the 2nd overall. Probably somebody here has a better idea than I do about this, but wasn't there something in the trade about ATL not drafting either Sedin ?

 

[ES]

I think the condition in the conditional 3rd round draft pick was "not draft Sedin".

 

[Mad Habber]

The original plan was for the NHL to expand from 21 teams to 24 in one year. The year after the Sharks came in. But the Gunds wanted to move the North Stars to San Jose while the NHL was eyeing that market for expansion and expansion fee of $50 mil. The NHL granted the expansion to the GUnds, splitting the roster (mostly farm team) of the North Stars, one year early.

Some owners complained that if San Jose came in and were granted the first pick overall like it was the norm previously (except for the WHA merger), then none of them had a chance at getting Lindros. Quebec was crap at the time with their only good player being Sakic. New Jersey held Toronto's pick in the Tom Kurvers trade and the Leafs weren't much better than the Nordiques. None of those teams wanted to lose their chance at Eric and Bonnie. So the NHL gave SJ the second pick. Pat Falloon, come on down.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Quebec was crap at the time with their only good player being Sakic.

They had Sakic, Sundin and Nolan.