WJC: Question regarding Marcus Foligno

Legend Killer

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Nov 15, 2007
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Great story by TSN....Im a huge Nick Foligno fan and I thought it was pretty funny when he said something along the lines of "looks like I picked the wrong team"

He said even tho he has played for the US internationally he is 100% cheering for his brother and team Canada this tournament. A reporter asked something along the lines of "what are you going to tell Brian Burke" and he said something like " hes a family man, he understands"
 

sparxx87

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Jan 5, 2010
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One of the things you (and many people) overlook here is that, even if their fathers were only in the US to play on a US team, oftentimes they wind up meeting, falling in love, and married to an American woman and therefore their mothers are American.

Look at Brett Hull for a classic example. Ryan Bourque. Jason Pominville. Zach Parise. And many others - too many to list. Canadian hockey player dad, and American mom.

If you want to talk about bloodlines and such, isn't a person's mother just as much a part of their identity and heritage as their father?

Your missing the point.

Of course you aren't going to agree, just like the Russians wont disagree with the poor refereeing in the semi finals; when a break happens in your favor all is well and good........but imagine it happened the other way around.
 

MayDay

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I do realize that some have American mothers but really, you have to admit, who is contributing more to their hockey heritage? Their mother or their Canadian NHL fathers?

But we're not talking about which parent they get their hockey ability from. We are talking about national self-identification. And why shouldn't they be just as likely to be influenced by their mothers as their fathers, in that regard?

Your missing the point.

Of course you aren't going to agree, just like the Russians wont disagree with the poor refereeing in the semi finals; when a break happens in your favor all is well and good........but imagine it happened the other way around.

The other way around? Like Tyler Myers being born in Houston to two American parents, learning the game of hockey there, and then moving to Calgary not until he's 9 and winding up playing for Team Canada?

I don't mind. If he has dual-citizenship, that's his decision.

You're the one missing the point. Neither country is "losing" these players to the other. They are dual-citizens - they are as much American as they are Canadian. It's their choice who they want to play for, and no one here should tell them that they're wrong or imply that they are somehow a traitor.
 

sparxx87

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The other way around? Like Tyler Myers being born in Houston to two American parents, learning the game of hockey there, and then moving to Calgary not until he's 9 and winding up playing for Team Canada?

I don't mind. If he has dual-citizenship, that's his decision.

You're the one missing the point. Neither country is "losing" these players to the other. They are dual-citizens - they are as much American as they are Canadian. It's their choice who they want to play for, and no one here should tell them that they're wrong or imply that they are somehow a traitor.

You can talk technicalities all you want because they're convenient for you in this argument. I understand sometimes there is a circumstance where kids feel connected to both countrys....but generally speaking, they're one or the other.

Imagine in a few years from now Canada catches up to the USA in baseball and then proceeds to beat them with Roy Halladays son, and Aaron Hills son, and Vernon Wells' son....all of which were born in Canada to American parents playing in Toronto.

Would it bother you to see a bunch of would be American kids, celebrating victory in Canadian jerseys?

Thats my point.
 

Roughneck

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I mock the Hull's, Deadmarsh's, Pominville's and Murray's since they had a first choice and only jumped ship when it didn't come to pass, despite having little, if anything to do with USA Hockey beforehand. But the players born in the US and developed by the US should play for the US regardless of where their parents are born. Hell, the place of birth is the minor detail of the two.
 

jordan7hm

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Aug 31, 2007
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I do realize that some have American mothers but really, you have to admit, who is contributing more to their hockey heritage? Their mother or their Canadian NHL fathers? Not to say that mothers aren't an important part of bringing children up of course but they aren't usually the ones out there teaching the sons the game and passing on the enormous hockey heritage that their fathers have to offer. Just saying I think some credit is due to this as it's obviously a very big part of them becoming the players they are.

Probably their moms, because their dads aren't home for a good portion of their childhoods.
 

sparxx87

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Probably their moms, because their dads aren't home for a good portion of their childhoods.

Really? How many parents do you know that get 5 months off in the summer? During the season they're home most nights, home in the evenings of non game days? I have a good friend whose dad played when we were in grade school and his dad picked him up 2 or 3 days a week and was at almost all our hockey games.

Beyond roadtrips, I think there is a big misconception on this.
 

jordan7hm

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Aug 31, 2007
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Really? How many parents do you know that get 5 months off in the summer? During the season they're home most nights, home in the evenings of non game days? I have a good friend whose dad played when we were in grade school and his dad picked him up 2 or 3 days a week and was at almost all our hockey games.

Beyond roadtrips, I think there is a big misconception on this.

Picking your kid up after school and waking him up at 6am on a Sunday morning to make a morning game are not the same things. I'm not an NHL dad or the kid of an NHL player so maybe I'm way off base here, but I'd be surprised if most kids, future NHL players included, don't depend far more heavily on their mother's commitment to their development than their father's.
 

Rabid Ranger

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You can talk technicalities all you want because they're convenient for you in this argument. I understand sometimes there is a circumstance where kids feel connected to both countrys....but generally speaking, they're one or the other.

Imagine in a few years from now Canada catches up to the USA in baseball and then proceeds to beat them with Roy Halladays son, and Aaron Hills son, and Vernon Wells' son....all of which were born in Canada to American parents playing in Toronto.

Would it bother you to see a bunch of would be American kids, celebrating victory in Canadian jerseys?

Thats my point.

How often does that happen though? I can't think of very many American athletes whose kids are born in another country (say Canada) when they are playing for a team there (for this discussion limit it to hockey), grow up, and then end up competing for a country other than the U.S.
 

New User Name

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I remember reading about an American hockey player playing for a Canadian team whose wife was pregnant and he sent her home because he wanted his child born American.

Not sure if it's true but I will admit I love that type of patriotism.
 

MLH

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Feb 6, 2003
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Imagine in a few years from now Canada catches up to the USA in baseball and then proceeds to beat them with Roy Halladays son, and Aaron Hills son, and Vernon Wells' son....all of which were born in Canada to American parents playing in Toronto.

Would it bother you to see a bunch of would be American kids, celebrating victory in Canadian jerseys?

Given that the vast majority of Americans don’t have gigantic inferiority complexes, I think it’s safe to say it would bother very few.
 

ORYX

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I think the only situation where one country can say they "lost" a player to the other is when a player doesnt make country A, then goes to country B. And in that case, are you really losing anything anyways?

If one of their parents are born in a country, both, none, who cares. If they have dual citizenship its their choice not ours.

Who cares what their motives are either, whethers its a connection to that country, or in an attempt to better their odds of being drafted or making the NHL. They all do it for the same reasons, and thats to win gold.

If you have a problem with it, then you are probably just scared that the offspring of these "famous canadians/Americans" are going to beat your country. Gretzky's son is WAY more American then Canadian to begin with, as are many of the examples being used. Who cares!
 

ashs

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Oct 27, 2007
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Ray Bourque was one of my favourite players growing up, I still have his Boston jersey. When his son played for the USA and he sat there and watched I instantly hated him and his kid lol not sure what to do with the jersey. Bothers me how your nationality completely changes, then again my parents are from India and I'm a proud Canadian ;)
 

ORYX

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Ray Bourque was one of my favourite players growing up, I still have his Boston jersey. When his son played for the USA and he sat there and watched I instantly hated him and his kid lol not sure what to do with the jersey. Bothers me how your nationality completely changes, then again my parents are from India and I'm a proud Canadian ;)

Seems a little ridiculous considering he was born and raised American......
 

Jesus Christ Horburn

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Aug 22, 2008
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I think there were a whole generation of Canadian players who tried following in Brett Hull's footsteps (Paul Stastny, Jason Pominville, etc) in order to get a chance to play first and foremost, regardless of which country they represented.

However, since then, the following generation probably views Hull's example like most of us here and don't want to follow it. So instead you get dual-citizenship players like Myers, Kozun, Foligno, etc. wanting to represent Canada only, even if they aren't selected.
 

NiagaraGirl

Hockey Canada fan :)
Trying this multi-quote thing! ;)

Wow, lots of convo today, I'm going to try out this multi-quote thing. :)

First off, I just want to repeat again what I said before... I don't disagree that the kids should have a choice of which country they want to play for, it's totally their choice. I'm just speaking as to my thoughts on the situation (as a Canadian) that's all. It's still their choice what they want to do.

But we're not talking about which parent they get their hockey ability from.

But that's exactly what I am talking about...their hockey heritage. For instance Zach Parise... his father, Jean-Paul Parise, played for Team Canada in the LEGENDARY '72 Canada/Russia games. He's from a very proud French-Canadian hockey tradition. I read an interview they did of his son where he talks about how Jean-Paul taught him how to play, coached him and many of the other guys who ended up on the Team U.S.A. olympic team and basically what a big influence he was on his hockey career. I mean gosh, his Dad fought the hard fight for Team Canada back in the day, he was part of a Canadian legend and a very long, very proud hockey tradition and heritage in Canada. Having that kind of father definitely shapes and molds you as a player! I'm not saying he should disown the American part of his roots from his Mom but where his hockey roots are concerned, you certainly can't say that the Canadian influence wouldn't have been a very major factor.


Neither country is "losing" these players to the other. They are dual-citizens - they are as much American as they are Canadian. It's their choice who they want to play for, and no one here should tell them that they're wrong or imply that they are somehow a traitor.

We certainly don't have a right to tell them what country to play for. Nevertheless, when some of our greatest players have their next generation playing for the States then of course they are lost to Canada. I personally would have been very proud to see the son of a Team Canada legend out on the ice for Canada just like his dad was before him, carrying on a proud heritage and tradition. It's sad that we will never see that for a lot of these players now. It's an excellent break for the States of course, but a sad one for Canada.

Great story by TSN....Im a huge Nick Foligno fan and I thought it was pretty funny when he said something along the lines of "looks like I picked the wrong team"

He said even tho he has played for the US internationally he is 100% cheering for his brother and team Canada this tournament. A reporter asked something along the lines of "what are you going to tell Brian Burke" and he said something like " hes a family man, he understands"

You were probably watching the same interview as me. Ya although he didn't come out and say it, he definitely gave the impression that he may have had some regrets. What upset me a bit is right after they showed them interviewing some American players who were basically calling him a traitor for supporting Team Canada. Again, this type of thing is bound to happen though and in that instance it was the Americans who were feeling a bit pissed about what they saw as misplaced loyalties.

Imagine in a few years from now Canada catches up to the USA in baseball and then proceeds to beat them with Roy Halladays son, and Aaron Hills son, and Vernon Wells' son....all of which were born in Canada to American parents playing in Toronto.

Would it bother you to see a bunch of would be American kids, celebrating victory in Canadian jerseys?

Thats my point.

Sparxx, thank you, you get my feelings completely. I think if we were maybe talking about an American sport that had a longstanding tradition and heritage behind it and the same situation happened there, then I think they'd totally understand what we're saying.

But the players born in the US and developed by the US should play for the US regardless of where their parents are born. Hell, the place of birth is the minor detail of the two.

I do agree with you there. So I understand why the older Foligno son probably felt obligated to play for the U.S. regardless since he had accepted their offer to participate in a special development program. After all, it would be unfair to do that and then go play for another country.

Probably their moms, because their dads aren't home for a good portion of their childhoods.

Well I can't agree with you there, every interview I've read of a son of an NHL player, they have talked about what a huge influence their father was in their development as a player. Again, I'm not meaning to discount the importance a mother brings to raising children as it's big no doubt, I'm just talking from a hockey perspective here.

How often does that happen though? I can't think of very many American athletes whose kids are born in another country (say Canada) when they are playing for a team there (for this discussion limit it to hockey), grow up, and then end up competing for a country other than the U.S.

Exactly. I think that's why some Americans are having a hard time understanding why it's hard for some Canadians to see that. If it started happening a lot with great American players then I'm sure you guys would have an easier time relating to what we're saying.

I remember reading about an American hockey player playing for a Canadian team whose wife was pregnant and he sent her home because he wanted his child born American.

Not sure if it's true but I will admit I love that type of patriotism.

I agree with you.

Given that the vast majority of Americans don’t have gigantic inferiority complexes, I think it’s safe to say it would bother very few.

I disagree with you on that. Let some American football or baseball greats start doing the same and I have no doubt whatsoever that American fans would be upset. Thing is, right now, this situation only benefits the States for the most part so of course Americans have no reason to feel concerned about it.

If you have a problem with it, then you are probably just scared that the offspring of these "famous canadians/Americans" are going to beat your country.

I'm actually more upset about losing the next generation of some great players that were part of a proud tradition and heritage in this country. I'm sure I'm not the only Canadian that finds it concerning and there's no shame in that.

Ray Bourque was one of my favourite players growing up, I still have his Boston jersey. When his son played for the USA and he sat there and watched I instantly hated him and his kid lol not sure what to do with the jersey. Bothers me how your nationality completely changes, then again my parents are from India and I'm a proud Canadian ;)

It feels weird for sure, can't say that I hate anyone and it's certainly their right to decide but I never thought I'd see the son of a '72 Canada/Russia player trying to beat Canada in Olympic hockey. Notice I said "trying". lol <Sorry, couldn't resist!> ;)

P.S. I just saw the wrap up of the under 17 tourny and Team Ontario just beat Team U.S.A. for gold (5 to 3.)

BUT don't hate me because right now Sweden and U.S. are about to fight it out for the bronze and most Canadians I know said they will be putting their support behind the Americans. ;)
 

Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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I`m not saying thats not accurate, but it happens all the time.......usually the other way around.

Canada doesn`t whine about Paul Stastny who was born in Quebec but plays for USA......or even guys like Zach Parise who were born in the states to Canadian parents who were there for the sole purpose of hockey.


Look through history and see how many players Canada lost to the States vs. how many left the States for Canada......After Americans see some of that, I bet they dont bring up this matter anymore....because one of the two wins by a landslide.

Who exactly is whining right now? I would just like to know, because you've mentioned it 3-4 times...
 

SMoneyMonkey

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I remember reading about an American hockey player playing for a Canadian team whose wife was pregnant and he sent her home because he wanted his child born American.

Not sure if it's true but I will admit I love that type of patriotism.

That's idiotic. I have no respect and quite a bit of mockery for people like that. It's completely laughable to think that where your child is born is important enough to put your pregnant wife through a flight. Flights aren't comfortable, and if it was her choice then she's equally as stupid.

There's no difference between the two countries besides weather and politics.

If US kids grew up in the hockey atmosphere Canadian kids grew up in they'd be just as good. National pride, while something we're all guilty of, is not in any way a virtue. And unless you're very worldly, it's just a product of ignorance.
 

Confucius

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I never realized there was such a thing as dual citizenship. I thought when you pledged your allegiance to one country, you gave up your allegiance to the former.
 

NiagaraGirl

Hockey Canada fan :)
I never realized there was such a thing as dual citizenship. I thought when you pledged your allegiance to one country, you gave up your allegiance to the former.

Some countries recognize it, some don't.

Funny thing is that a couple years ago when we were going across the border (to the States) with a friend who has dual citizenship (born in Canada, served in the U.S. Navy and lived there for like 30+ years,) the U.S. Customs officer gave us a lecture about how the U.S. doesn't recognize it when our friend said she had dual citizenship. He got kind of upset and said that as far as the States is concerned, she was an American citizen and only an American citizen. So not quite sure what the official American stand is on dual citizenship. Canada recognizes it though.
 

Rammstein816

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Mar 16, 2009
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Some countries recognize it, some don't.

Funny thing is that a couple years ago when we were going across the border (to the States) with a friend who has dual citizenship (born in Canada, served in the U.S. Navy and lived there for like 30+ years,) the U.S. Customs officer gave us a lecture about how the U.S. doesn't recognize it when our friend said she had dual citizenship. He got kind of upset and said that as far as the States is concerned, she was an American citizen and only an American citizen. So not quite sure what the official American stand is on dual citizenship. Canada recognizes it though.

My fiance was born in Canada and has dual citizenship. As far as this discussion is concerned, I would say let US baseball players have their kids in Canada. Sports is no fun when you win all the time and a competitive balance is always good to see. Most canadians I've met during this tournament understand that and are respectful of that, but there are the nationalistic purists that think it is a day of mourning when Canada loses anything hockey-related (same thing for when the "dream team" loses a basketball tournament). The spirit of competition is a good thing and the Canada/Sweden game in this tournament was one of the best games I've seen and not because of who won, but because of how the game was played.
 

joshjull

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Some countries recognize it, some don't.

Funny thing is that a couple years ago when we were going across the border (to the States) with a friend who has dual citizenship (born in Canada, served in the U.S. Navy and lived there for like 30+ years,) the U.S. Customs officer gave us a lecture about how the U.S. doesn't recognize it when our friend said she had dual citizenship. He got kind of upset and said that as far as the States is concerned, she was an American citizen and only an American citizen. So not quite sure what the official American stand is on dual citizenship. Canada recognizes it though.

They recognize it. My brother has dual citizenship (American/Irish).



These kinds of debates strike me as silly. We are both nations of immigrants. Anyone with no connection to either of our nations can come to either of our countries for work, education or whatever. They decide they like it and become a citizen of one of our countries. No one would argue that those folks aren't citizens even though they had no connection before hand.

Yet we argue over whether someone actually born in the USA/Canada or with a parent from one is really are a citizen of that country? :laugh:


I also love how people are judging families/players and the decisions they make.
 

DaFranzenator

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May 10, 2009
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until now I was thinking hockey is religion in Canada. Looks like it is a bit more important :) It is now understandable why you can't take any loss with some class. Just like Brazilians in football. And just like USSR in hockey back in 60s, 70s and 80s.

PS I'm serious.

Amen brother....GO RUSSIA :laugh:
 

magic school bus

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i have some questions about Olsen - why did he go to a US college to play hockey if his home is Canada? he was born here too, no?

sounds pretty American to me.

i honestly don't care about this unless we find out that players are being bought or something shady like that. let the kids choose, and don't question it.
 

Tavaresmagicalplay*

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Great tournament by Marcus Foligno. Buffalo has a great set of young gritty players in Adam, Kassian, and Foligno.
 

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