WJC: Question regarding Marcus Foligno

[Street Hawk]

That's the saddest thing I've ever seen on tsn, especially if you've ever lost someone or seen someone fight cancer.

It is great Marcus is playing for Canada for the Jrs even though it will pretty much take away any chance he will be able to play for an international team as a man because his chances to make the US team would be much higher.

He made a choice. We should all respect it.

The only one that bothered me was Brady Murray because he attended Canada's Summer Evaluation Camp in the summer of 2003, knowing full well that Canada doesn't select its team until the evaluation camp in December, wanted a guarantee of a spot on the team, which Canada would not give him.

He then choose to join the US Team. Don't hold anything against him for joining the US team, just his timing.

Just didn't like the fact he was at the summer evaluation camp. I would think that once you are there, that's the team you want to play for. He took away an opportunity for someone else to possibly shine at the summer camp and leave a strong impression with the coaching staff.

These decisions these kids make are final. Once you choose a side, there is no going back.

Marcus and Nick could potentially face each other in a World Championship down the line.

 

[Other Little Mikey]

It's hard to condem the guys who do it to make a team they otherwise wouldn't. Like the Canadians who played in Italy and got citizenship so they could play on the national team in the Olympics in 06. I'm as proud a Canadian as you'll ever meet but there's not much I wouldn't do to participate in an Olympics. Obviously those players were a million miles from ever wearing a Canadian jersey in a high level tournament. Nick Foligno might have thought playing for the US was his best/only chance to play in a World Championship. I give Marcus a lot of credit for trying out for Canada when he was far from a sure thing to make the team.

Keegan Lowe is similar. He was born in the US while his father played for the Rangers but he's grown up almost entirely in Edmonton. Both his parents were Canadian Olympians (Kevin in a managerial role) but the US team invited Keegan to play for them in the U18s. He wasn't going to get that chance with Canada so he went for it. He even said, "it felt weird putting on the jersey of the U.S." But if it's going to further your hockey career, or give you the opportunity to play at a level you otherwise never would, hey, I can't judge that.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

That's the saddest thing I've ever seen on tsn, especially if you've ever lost someone or seen someone fight cancer.

It is great Marcus is playing for Canada for the Jrs even though it will pretty much take away any chance he will be able to play for an international team as a man because his chances to make the US team would be much higher.

Yeah, it sounded like the U.S. brass basically assured Foligno a spot on the team, much like they did with Kozun last year (purely anecdotal). Good for Marcus raising his profile to even be considered much less named since he was off the radar leading into this season.

 

[ItsTheBGB]

It's not like she was diagnosed and then as she was dying, with her last breath, whispered in his ear..."Will you do something for me son? Play for team canada" and then exhaled, and that was the last she ever said.

You don't think it was possible, that in probably the year + she was fighting the cancer they had a discussion, she said to him that she would like him to play for team Canada if he goes to the Tournament, and he decided to honour that?

DA

It was actually this.

 

[MsMeow]

It's hard to condem the guys who do it to make a team they otherwise wouldn't. Like the Canadians who played in Italy and got citizenship so they could play on the national team in the Olympics in 06. I'm as proud a Canadian as you'll ever meet but there's not much I wouldn't do to participate in an Olympics. Obviously those players were a million miles from ever wearing a Canadian jersey in a high level tournament. Nick Foligno might have thought playing for the US was his best/only chance to play in a World Championship. I give Marcus a lot of credit for trying out for Canada when he was far from a sure thing to make the team.

Keegan Lowe is similar. He was born in the US while his father played for the Rangers but he's grown up almost entirely in Edmonton. Both his parents were Canadian Olympians (Kevin in a managerial role) but the US team invited Keegan to play for them in the U18s. He wasn't going to get that chance with Canada so he went for it. He even said, "it felt weird putting on the jersey of the U.S." But if it's going to further your hockey career, or give you the opportunity to play at a level you otherwise never would, hey, I can't judge that.

There is no way I could or would ever put on the jersey of another country. It really doesn't endear you to either side, just ask Greg Rusedski who was born in Canada and switched over to the UK and became a Brit. He pissed off Canadian tennis fans and then pissed off British fans when he unveiled his bandana of the Union Jack.

 

[j12]

There have been a few players who are born Canadian and then offered a chance to play for a country like Italy that have actually gone to Hockey Canada asking for their blessing. I recall Bob Nicholson saying that he's given every player that has asked the "okay" to go play for another country, and he's often respected them for asking.

The fact is, some people don't have any particular national allegiances but I think two things come to mind when a player has a choice: 1) what will be the best thing for my career? and 2) what feels right?

 

[bellagiobob]

I don't have a problem when a player is born in Canada, but moves at an early age and plays his minor hockey in the US, and then chooses to play for either country internationally. Not so crazy with a guy like Pominville, for example, who was born in Canada and played all of his minor hockey in Canada. Tried out for the world junior team but was cut. Years later decides to play for the US internationally just because he is a dual citizen as his mum was born in the US. To me he shouldn't be allowed to play for the US. Wasn't born there or didn't play minor hockey there. But not a big deal.

 

[MerryJ99]

I think the posters here who are joking about and condoning Foligno for his reasons for playing for team Canada are being a bit disrespectful. Cancer is a terrible thing and he lost his mother to the disease at an early age. Joking about it is not cool at all.

Good for him for following through with her wishes. When I watched that clip from TSN that was one of the most heartbreaking stories I have seen on TSN lately. If after you watch that and can still make jokes about why he decided to play for Canada then I really don't know what to say.

 

[ashs]

the sad reality is that future team USA's will consist of kids of famous Canadians i.e. Crosby, Gretzky, Yzerman, etc It sucks but it is inevitable, and its already happening.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I don't have a problem with a guy like Hnat Dominechelli (sp?) who played in the Olympics for Switzerland, I believe, even though he won a WJC gold with Canada in the past. The guy is never going to make Team Canada in a million years, but he got to go to the Olympics.

 

[Street Hawk]

I don't have a problem with a guy like Hnat Dominechelli (sp?) who played in the Olympics for Switzerland, I believe, even though he won a WJC gold with Canada in the past. The guy is never going to make Team Canada in a million years, but he got to go to the Olympics.

What are the IIHF rules regarding that? Did Hnat have to become a citizen of Switzerland in order to play for them?

I was under the impression that once you play for 1 country at the men's level internationally, you can only play for that country.

I know in the past, with the fall of communism, Peter Stastny played for Czechslovakia, Canada, and then Slovakia.

But, I think the IIHF over the last few years deemed that from a certain point in time going forward, once you play for 1 country, you can't play for another country.

Wasn't there an issue with Nabokov, because he had played for Khazastan when he was younger, so the IIHF ruled that he could not play for Russia, but later changed it for him?

 

[kaiser matias]

What are the IIHF rules regarding that? Did Hnat have to become a citizen of Switzerland in order to play for them?

I was under the impression that once you play for 1 country at the men's level internationally, you can only play for that country.

I know in the past, with the fall of communism, Peter Stastny played for Czechslovakia, Canada, and then Slovakia.

But, I think the IIHF over the last few years deemed that from a certain point in time going forward, once you play for 1 country, you can't play for another country.

Wasn't there an issue with Nabokov, because he had played for Khazastan when he was younger, so the IIHF ruled that he could not play for Russia, but later changed it for him?

IIHF rules say that in order to play for a national team one must:

Have citizenship and play at least 2 years in that country.

However if they have played for a different country before, then they have to have citizenship of the new country and played at least 4 years in the new country.

So players who played on a prior national team can play for a new team, as long as they pass these rules.

In regards to Nabokov, the IIHF allowed players from the USSR to select one of the their countries. Thats why a guy like Kasparaitis (born in Lithuania) got to play for Russia. However Nabokov is a different case. As far as I can tell the nationality rule is rather new, because Nabokov wanted to play for Russia in the 2002 Olympics, but wasn't allowed to because he was part of the Kazakhstan team at the 1994 WJC. He argued that he was 19 when that happened and had played in Russia for several years after that, as well as being a Russian citizen. For the 2006 Olympics he was given an exemption to join the Russian team, and with the current rules he is now considered Russian.

 

[dystemper]

What are the IIHF rules regarding that? Did Hnat have to become a citizen of Switzerland in order to play for them?

you can read the official IIHF national eligibility rules here: http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/iihf-eligibility.html

there are "2" and "4" year rules. before they enacted this, you could flip flop between nationalities pretty much at will.

nowadays, if you've NEVER played in an IIHF sanctioned event, you can switch nationalities if you've been playing in your country's system for at least 2 years.

if you HAVE played in an IIHF sanctioned event before, you must be part of your new country's system for at least 4 years before switching. once this switch is made, it is permanent.

 

[NiagaraGirl]

re Canadian players born abroad

Hi everyone, I've been following the forums on this site lately as I have a keen interest in watching Canada compete internationally in hockey so I thought I'd finally join so that I can comment.

I wanted to just say that to my way of thinking, so many of these young players that are born in the States just because their fathers are playing on a U.S. team at the time are, in my eyes, similar to Canadian kids born abroad when their parents are serving in the military.... doesn't really make them any less Canadian in my opinion. They still have the Canadian bloodline, still raised by Canadian parents with largely Canadian traditions and oftentimes spend a good amount of time in Canada. Not to mention they usually learn to play hockey from their fathers and often from playing the minor leagues in Canada. To me they are just Canadian kids born abroad but they do of course have a choice which country they want to represent. When I watched the Foligno interview, he indicated that he not only did it to honour his mother but also that he had always wanted/intended to play for Canada anyways. Even when they interviewed his older brother it seemed that he kind of envied that his brother made that choice, just my perception and I could be wrong.

I also just wanted to say that from watching hockey here and there over the years, I've noticed that so many of the American players, even though perhaps not Canadian by birth, still seem to have substantial connections to Canada... either through coming from a Canadian bloodline, having an influential Canadian coach in their early years or playing the minor league in Canada. Even when I was watching the Team U.S.A. coach the other night I said to my friends that I'm pretty sure that that fellow has some Canadian background and sure enough the other night as I watched the interview of the U.S. team after the U.S./Canada game, the Team U.S.A. coach said that the U.S./Canada game/rivalry was a bit more special for him because his father was from Canada. lol

I do really worry though that with all these great Canadian NHL players playing down in the States, that we will continue to lose the next generation of great players to the U.S.A. Parise comes to mind as a good example but there are many of course. Strikingly, when reading forums over the last year or so, it appears many Americans have no idea of the Canadian bloodlines that many "American" players have so it can sometimes be surprising to hear some try to put down Canadian hockey using an example of such a player who they apparently think is purely a product of American hockey.

I mean no offence with my post, just my observations. I do hope that more NHL teams come back to Canada so that more of our players can be born at home!

 

[MayDay]

I wanted to just say that to my way of thinking, so many of these young players that are born in the States just because their fathers are playing on a U.S. team at the time are, in my eyes, similar to Canadian kids born abroad when their parents are serving in the military....

One of the things you (and many people) overlook here is that, even if their fathers were only in the US to play on a US team, oftentimes they wind up meeting, falling in love, and married to an American woman and therefore their mothers are American.

Look at Brett Hull for a classic example. Ryan Bourque. Jason Pominville. Zach Parise. And many others - too many to list. Canadian hockey player dad, and American mom.

If you want to talk about bloodlines and such, isn't a person's mother just as much a part of their identity and heritage as their father?

 

[loxcane]

As far as dual-citizens go, it's asinine for either country to whine about "losing" players to the other.

If they are dual-citizens, they are fully citizens of both countries, regardless of their parentage or place of birth. Who are we to tell them which country they should feel more of an attachment to? That's for them to decide.

Finally. Who the hell cares anyway. Watch the hockey

 

[NiagaraGirl]

One of the things you (and many people) overlook here is that, even if their fathers were only in the US to play on a US team, oftentimes they wind up meeting, falling in love, and married to an American woman and therefore their mothers are American.

Look at Brett Hull for a classic example. Ryan Bourque. Jason Pominville. Zach Parise. And many others - too many to list. Canadian hockey player dad, and American mom.

If you want to talk about bloodlines and such, isn't a person's mother just as much a part of their identity and heritage as their father?

I do realize that some have American mothers but really, you have to admit, who is contributing more to their hockey heritage? Their mother or their Canadian NHL fathers? Not to say that mothers aren't an important part of bringing children up of course but they aren't usually the ones out there teaching the sons the game and passing on the enormous hockey heritage that their fathers have to offer. Just saying I think some credit is due to this as it's obviously a very big part of them becoming the players they are.

 

[MOGiLNY]

I do realize that some have American mothers but really, you have to admit, who is contributing more to their hockey heritage? Their mother or their Canadian NHL fathers? Not to say that mothers aren't an important part of bringing children up of course but they aren't usually the ones out there teaching the sons the game and passing on the enormous hockey heritage that their fathers have to offer. Just saying I think some credit is due to this as it's obviously a very big part of them becoming the players they are.

so when Joe Sakic has Croatian parents, he should play for Croatia and Paul Kariya should've played for Japan?

 

[NiagaraGirl]

so when Joe Sakic has Croatian parents, he should play for Croatia and Paul Kariya should've played for Japan?

They should make their own choice of course, just like the Folignos did.

P.S. I see you are a Russian hockey fan? There was a Russian watching on the TSN site live the other night and talking to everyone in live Facebook chat on the site... was really interesting. I ended up adding him to my Facebook page and he surprised me today by sending me a Team Canada avatar personalized with my name which I thought was a really nice gesture! I bet he will be on there for the Canada/Russia game tomorrow too.

 

[MOGiLNY]

They should make their own choice of course, just like the Folignos did.

and Bourque, Hull, Pominville and the rest

 

[NiagaraGirl]

and Bourque, Hull, Pominville and the rest

Well yes, obviously they should all get to make a choice since they have dual citizenship after all.

 

[Smyth94]

petr nedved played for canada at one point cant remember what year though

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

petr nedved played for canada at one point cant remember what year though

1994.

His story is actually pretty interesting. He defected from Czechoslovakia without his parents even knowing while he was in Calgary at a midget tournament. Pretty gutsy.

 

[Lunatik*]

petr nedved played for canada at one point cant remember what year though

94 Olympics i think... but that was a special case since he defected to Canada and renounced his Czech citizenship

 

[Lunatik*]

I don't have a problem with a guy like Hnat Dominechelli (sp?) who played in the Olympics for Switzerland, I believe, even though he won a WJC gold with Canada in the past. The guy is never going to make Team Canada in a million years, but he got to go to the Olympics.

Jason Muzzati too, he looked pretty solid for Italy in the Olympics