Question About What Defines Success

[Gjman2019]

From 2004 until 2019 the Sharks only missed the playoffs once and won 16 playoff series...They had some big time regular season win loss records and accomplishments too......Compare that to the Kings who missed the playoffs 8 times in those years and were under .500 five times.......In the end the Kings won 2 cups and the Sharks won zero.....

An example in another sport would be the Braves from 91-2005 in baseball when they won all those consecutive division titles but only 1 championship...Compare that to the Marlins who only made the playoffs twice in those years , won zero division titles and were only over .500 four times ........But the Marlins ended up with 2 championships in those years and the Braves only got one........

So my question is , who do you think were the more successful franchises in the two examples i gave based on the time periods i pointed out ........And another question is if you were a fan what would you want for your team ? What the Marlins and Kings did or the Sharks and Braves.......

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[Stewie Griffin]

As a Sharks fan the Kings were 100% more successful. They won and we didn't. It would be an interesting debate if the Sharks got 1 cup during all those years, cause then you're comparing years of playoffs with 1 cup versus a couple playoffs and 2 cups. In that example you could use the Blues/Capitals and compare them to the Kings for example.

 

[Gjman2019]

As a Sharks fan the Kings were 100% more successful. They won and we didn't. It would be an interesting debate if the Sharks got 1 cup during all those years, cause then you're comparing years of playoffs with 1 cup versus a couple playoffs and 2 cups. In that example you could use the Blues/Capitals and compare them to the Kings for example.

Yeah but during a bunch of those years you guys were doing some big time things while they were a non factor .....Braves fans were enjoying one of the best teams in the league every year while the Marlins were in the basement ( or close to it ) for alot of those years.......

So in your opinion the championships trump all that ?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Yeah but during a bunch of those years you guys were doing some big time things while they were a non factor .....Braves fans were enjoying one of the best teams in the league every year while the Marlins were in the basement ( or close to it ) for alot of those years.......

So in your opinion the championships trump all that ?

Yeah we have had year after year of heartbreak and look where we are now, starting from scratch. (Actually I have no f'in clue what's going on in San Jose)

 

[Gjman2019]

Yeah we have had year after year of heartbreak and look where we are now, starting from scratch. (Actually I have no f'in clue what's going on in San Jose)

Seems as though Wilson won't give in and rebuild even though that looks to be what's needed , unless Hill can play lights out and save the day.....

I talked to some Braves fans over the years and they said, they in no way would trade places with Florida as far as what happened in those years (91-05).......They did manage to win one though ....

 

[jetsforever]

In that example the Kings were more successful but I think teams like SJ sometimes get less credit than they should for being elite for many years and just not getting to the top.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Tough one for me to answer. Because as a Marlins fan, their two championships were isolated events. No build up to the championship season from prior seasons. And no momentum after the championship seasons with following seasons. For that reason alone I say the Braves had more success.
But at the same time, I'm the type of person that thinks if you're not winning championships it's not really that much of a success. To me, the teams that have a lot of regular season success and not a lot of championships or playoff success, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Gjman2019]

Tough one for me to answer. Because as a Marlins fan, their two championships were isolated events. No build up to the championship season from prior seasons. And no momentum after the championship seasons with following seasons. For that reason alone I say the Braves had more success.
But at the same time, I'm the type of person that thinks if you're not winning championships it's not really that much of a success. To me, the teams that have a lot of regular season success and not a lot of championships or playoff success, you're doing something wrong.

Really interesting because it shows how different people have different ways of looking at things...........I talked to this one basketball fan from Italy and he's adamant about how the game should be approached and played.....That seriously means more to him than winning or losing......

The Marlins if i remember correctly had moments of going all in to win followed by fire sales .....Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong .......

 

[T REX]

From 2004 until 2019 the Sharks only missed the playoffs once and won 16 playoff series...They had some big time regular season win loss records and accomplishments too......Compare that to the Kings who missed the playoffs 8 times in those years and were under .500 five times.......In the end the Kings won 2 cups and the Sharks won zero.....

An example in another sport would be the Braves from 91-2005 in baseball when they won all those consecutive division titles but only 1 championship...Compare that to the Marlins who only made the playoffs twice in those years , won zero division titles and were only over .500 four times ........But the Marlins ended up with 2 championships in those years and the Braves only got one........

So my question is , who do you think were the more successful franchises in the two examples i gave based on the time periods i pointed out ........And another question is if you were a fan what would you want for your team ? What the Marlins and Kings did or the Sharks and Braves.......

Titles always. Period. End of discussion.

the Braves at least won that one WS.

1>0

You should take 9 losing seasons and 1 Titles every day of the week. Titles are very rare

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Really interesting because it shows how different people have different ways of looking at things...........I talked to this one basketball fan from Italy and he's adamant about how the game should be approached and played.....That seriously means more to him than winning or losing......

The Marlins if i remember correctly had moments of going all in to win followed by fire sales .....Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong .......

Yeah, they went all in, in 1997 to win. Then followed it up the next season with a fire sale.
2003 they didn't go all in as much as they had a talented young team that was underachieving until they made a managerial change early on in the season. After that season they didn't have a fire sale the next season, but it was shortly there after.
As for the Italian basketball fan. Part of winning is the attitude. In order to achieve it, you have to at least want it. Obviously I'm talking about the organizations who are competing. And I'm not saying that fan can't have his beliefs. But then at the same time don't complain about your team being a loser, if they never win anything of significance.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

It would be interesting to see the money investment choices of the folks saying "championships or bust" vs. those saying "regular contention but maybe never winning the whole thing".

 

[Gjman2019]

Yeah, they went all in, in 1997 to win. Then followed it up the next season with a fire sale.
2003 they didn't go all in as much as they had a talented young team that was underachieving until they made a managerial change early on in the season. After that season they didn't have a fire sale the next season, but it was shortly there after.
As for the Italian basketball fan. Part of winning is the attitude. In order to achieve it, you have to at least want it. Obviously I'm talking about the organizations who are competing. And I'm not saying that fan can't have his beliefs. But then at the same time don't complain about your team being a loser, if they never win anything of significance.

Not a big baseball guy so thanks for clearing that up....Just remember seeing names like Beckett, Delgado, Lo Duca, Reyes, Buehrle being shipped out of town when i would watch SportsCenter over the years.....

He thinks teams and individual players should be shooting a very high amount of 3's and thinks you should only target players with very high 3 point percentages....Seems as though he really neglects to see the importance of the other areas of the game ...And when people point out his way of thinking doesn't necessarily led to success he doesn't seem to care.....I actually enjoy talking to him and i don't begrudge anyone from having their views on things even if they are a bit different than most..........It does spark some pretty heated debates on that forum though...Lol.....

 

[Legionnaire]

Easily the Braves. They at least won one World Series.

 

[Legionnaire]

Titles always. Period. End of discussion.

the Braves at least won that one WS.

1>0

You should take 9 losing seasons and 1 Titles every day of the week. Titles are very rare

lol. I didn't see this first.

 

[txpd]

Season to season I would much rather have a winning team to follow that has a chance to win than a team that did win but it otherwise awful. I think fans of really good teams get spoiled when they dont get the cups they want and would happily trade 5 straight playoff misses for one cup. As a Caps fan I am watching that fan base having a fit over 3 straight divisions(lost the 3rd in a tie breaker but it makes my point) and 3 first round outs. If they are bent over that imagine if they had missed the playoffs all three seasons.

 

[txpd]

Easily the Braves. They at least won one World Series.

Buffalo went to 4 super bowls and lost them all. Which is more fun? Those Bills teams or the Sabres now?

 

[tarheelhockey]

As a Sharks fan the Kings were 100% more successful. They won and we didn't. It would be an interesting debate if the Sharks got 1 cup during all those years, cause then you're comparing years of playoffs with 1 cup versus a couple playoffs and 2 cups. In that example you could use the Blues/Capitals and compare them to the Kings for example.

I agree, this question is much more compelling with a 1-time champ as the comparison. Multiple Cups in a short span is going to trump anything else that happens during the same general time period.

 

[Sega Dreamcast]

A team that is good enough to consistently make the playoffs, but never great enough to make deep playoff runs is basically in purgatory.

Not bad enough to blow it up, but just good enough to have that glimmer of hope that scares the GM from making too many changes, leading to relatively the same results

 

[Legionnaire]

Buffalo went to 4 super bowls and lost them all. Which is more fun? Those Bills teams or the Sabres now?

Depends on who you ask. On one hand you have four years of utter disappointment and on the other you can watch and enjoy without any expectations.

Yeah, of course I want my team to win every game, but I'm also a realist who can enjoy the sport and the talent on another team.

Edit: And honestly, you learn a lot more about a sport watching a poor team than one that makes it look effortless.

 

[Gjman2019]

I agree, this question is much more compelling with a 1-time champ as the comparison. Multiple Cups in a short span is going to trump anything else that happens during the same general time period.

In the time frame i mentioned in the opening post (2004-2019) your Hurricanes missed the playoffs 12 times but they have a cup in that time and the Sharks don't...

In your honest opinion who was more successful from 2004-2019 the Canes or the Sharks ?

 

[Gjman2019]

Buffalo went to 4 super bowls and lost them all. Which is more fun? Those Bills teams or the Sabres now?

Bills.

 

[txpd]

Depends on who you ask. On one hand you have four years of utter disappointment and on the other you can watch and enjoy without any expectations.

Yeah, of course I want my team to win every game, but I'm also a realist who can enjoy the sport and the talent on another team.

Edit: And honestly, you learn a lot more about a sport watching a poor team than one that makes it look effortless.

Since Rod Langway arrived in 1982 the Capitals have the 2nd best record in the league. Its a shame that they have had so much trouble in the playoffs. A little more success would have been nice. The team before Rod Langway was in danger of moving and was the worst team in the history of the league. Ok...the NJ Devils were worse in that period but they moved twice.

I much prefer the winning team to the losing team

 

[txpd]

I agree, this question is much more compelling with a 1-time champ as the comparison. Multiple Cups in a short span is going to trump anything else that happens during the same general time period.

The Kings are almost akin to the Marlins in MLB. From 1993 to 2019 they made the playoffs twice. They won the WS both times. Otherwise in that time they finished over .500 4 times. Your team is a punchline. Except when they suddenly have a one season bump

 

[tarheelhockey]

In the time frame i mentioned in the opening post (2004-2019) your Hurricanes missed the playoffs 12 times but they have a cup in that time and the Sharks don't...

In your honest opinion who was more successful from 2004-2019 the Canes or the Sharks ?

Oh, the Sharks VERY easily. Even if we make it all about playoff success, we’re putting a Cup plus two other CF runs against a Final and four CF runs. That doesn’t include the nine other extra playoff berths and a President’s Trophy.

The Cup is of course a huge offsetting factor, but it doesn’t offset that big of a gap unless you put an irrational amount of value on it.

 

[holy]

To me it all comes down to your teams diet.