Of course there is plenty of corporate sponsors here. Champ Car sold millions of dollars in tickets to them already, and all in all we have 37 suites and 16 skyboxes, don't we? And they are always full.
Question about the Oilers
- Thread starter fischer8
- Start date
- Status
Marconius
Registered User
Biggest Canuck Fan said:I am a stats major my friend. but just to show you...
http://www.epl.ca/Elections/info/EPLpopulation.cfm
According to your own City Library you only have 665,599(forecast) for 2002
You are telling me in 3 years the City has had an influx of over 300K?!?!
Here's another one my learned friend... 666 104 (2001 census)
Source: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=J1ARTJ0002525
Sorry but Edmonton is no where near 1,000,000
You are thinking of this: http://www.edmonton.com/statistics/page.asp?page=84
With a population of just under 938,000 at the time of the 2001 Census of Canada, the Edmonton CMA is the sixth largest metropolitan region in Canada.
Current projections from the City of Edmonton Planning and Development Department are that the population of the Edmonton CMA will be just under 985, 000 at the end of 2003 and the City of Edmonton population will be just under 698, 000.
I don't have the link, but I have to back Hootchie on this one. There were a bunch of writeups in the paper a few months back, about how Edmonton (and surrounding area) finally broke 1,000,000. Our munciple gov't made a huge deal out of it, because now we can say we're major players as far as sporting events/concerts etc go.
Oh ok
...sorry for the misunderstanding.
I just get really suspicious when we cry poor now. I would like to have the revenues (where they come from and how much goes where) explained if anyone knows.
...sorry for the misunderstanding.
I just get really suspicious when we cry poor now. I would like to have the revenues (where they come from and how much goes where) explained if anyone knows.
Hootchie Cootchie said:
Well I have been to a few Oiler games, Flames games, and Canucks games and let me tell you... I could certainly see why the Oilers cry... they had advertising everywhere, and I mean everywhere!!
It is the city and Provincial Taxes. Plain and simple.
I really hate to spin this into a Calgary vs. Edmonton thread (again), but the comparison is fitting since they both occupy the same province and have similar revenue numbers.fischer8 said:
My guess is that Edmonton is generally a "poorer" city its southern counterpart, being more of a blue-collar city while Calgary is almost entirely white-collar. This allows for less breathing room for the Oilers, who have more owners (31 vs. 6) and less big coperates buying expensive box's. Privite funding ect also is less, and thus IMO Edmonton is walking on probably the thinnest ice outside of Pittsburg and Buffalo.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
To get back on topic, the big reasons Canadian teams struggle financially as I understand it are as follows:
1) in the US the sports teams are often subsidized by the community like the Arena being bargained for in Pittsburgh and the new Carolina arena. This kind of deal doesnt happen here as far as I understand. Sometimes the community owns the arena but they dont give sweetheart deals.
2) the difference in tax burden is really surprising. Again, I think this is another way the American public subsidizes their sports teams
3) the difference in the dollar can make a surprising difference in the bottom line. I think I heard for every cent the Canadian dollar gains on the American market represents more than a million $ for the team.
1) in the US the sports teams are often subsidized by the community like the Arena being bargained for in Pittsburgh and the new Carolina arena. This kind of deal doesnt happen here as far as I understand. Sometimes the community owns the arena but they dont give sweetheart deals.
2) the difference in tax burden is really surprising. Again, I think this is another way the American public subsidizes their sports teams
3) the difference in the dollar can make a surprising difference in the bottom line. I think I heard for every cent the Canadian dollar gains on the American market represents more than a million $ for the team.
MarkZackKarl
Registered User
look at the whole picture
Not true. Look at :
Nashville
Raleigh
Buffalo
for examples of similar sized cities. I do not think that the city size matters as much, as long as it sits at around 1 million... Ottawa has a high density of hockey fans, double or even triple compared to some US cities. Therefore, it negates the population "weakness". Also, the corporations in a city such as Calgary do not have many PRO SPORTS options that exist in lets say New York or Boston. The "team" in town is the Flames... they get most of the buzz on the sports scene if not all of it during the winter months. Same with the Oilers. In New York and Boston you are competing with a whole host of sports, like the Patriots or the Yankees.
I dont buy the Canadian dollar argument, because teams set their prices and those are converted to US dollars... it kinda negates the difference. A few years back I remember converting Ottawa prices into US dollars and they came out right around league average, now they are 7th highest.
The advertising etc is all based on how much market it will reach. Lets say 10% of Atlanta fans like hockey alot. thats a population "base" of lets say 350K that the Trashers can draw from... perhaps more if they have a winning team. Now look at Edmonton, lets say the population base for that city who enjoy NHL hockey is 50%. So thats 500,000 people they can "target".
THe 3 smaller Canadian cities are more like Mid Market teams... Ottawa has an advantage over Calgary and Edmonton because of the rink being privately owned (and debt free) by Melnyk, and the fact that we are 3rd in suites (147) and seating capacity (20,500).
That said, all 3 markets are comparable. The "small market' Canadian blues tune was overplayed by the media.
That said, I expect the Oilers to come crying for a new arena within the next couple years. If the NHL ever gets its head out of its ass and starts playing games again...
What the heck are the owners thinking?!?!
Not true. Look at :
Nashville
Raleigh
Buffalo
for examples of similar sized cities. I do not think that the city size matters as much, as long as it sits at around 1 million... Ottawa has a high density of hockey fans, double or even triple compared to some US cities. Therefore, it negates the population "weakness". Also, the corporations in a city such as Calgary do not have many PRO SPORTS options that exist in lets say New York or Boston. The "team" in town is the Flames... they get most of the buzz on the sports scene if not all of it during the winter months. Same with the Oilers. In New York and Boston you are competing with a whole host of sports, like the Patriots or the Yankees.
I dont buy the Canadian dollar argument, because teams set their prices and those are converted to US dollars... it kinda negates the difference. A few years back I remember converting Ottawa prices into US dollars and they came out right around league average, now they are 7th highest.
The advertising etc is all based on how much market it will reach. Lets say 10% of Atlanta fans like hockey alot. thats a population "base" of lets say 350K that the Trashers can draw from... perhaps more if they have a winning team. Now look at Edmonton, lets say the population base for that city who enjoy NHL hockey is 50%. So thats 500,000 people they can "target".
THe 3 smaller Canadian cities are more like Mid Market teams... Ottawa has an advantage over Calgary and Edmonton because of the rink being privately owned (and debt free) by Melnyk, and the fact that we are 3rd in suites (147) and seating capacity (20,500).
That said, all 3 markets are comparable. The "small market' Canadian blues tune was overplayed by the media.
That said, I expect the Oilers to come crying for a new arena within the next couple years. If the NHL ever gets its head out of its ass and starts playing games again...
What the heck are the owners thinking?!?!
It is true that Calgary has some more rich people, but that doesn't effect the standard-of-living for the average citizen. For all I know you are living in squalor.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
Hootchie Cootchie said:
Personally Im proud that we are a blue collar town. And just thinking it through, the 36/37 owners proves that in fact there are several really wealthy people in town.
CantHaveTkachev
Legends
sure Edmonton is a blue-collar city...nothing wrong with that
the reason Calgary is bigger than Edmonton is because alot of Edmontonians moved down there to work in the oil business!
the reason Calgary is bigger than Edmonton is because alot of Edmontonians moved down there to work in the oil business!
True enoughOilerFan4Life said:
Personally though... I think the Flames will contract/fold long before the Oilers will. I don't think the 31-owners will work, but considering the (gag) history of the Oilers, SOMEBODY will buy the team and keep it there. The day a franchise like Isles, Habs or Oilers move/contract will be a very sad day in hockey.
Thanks for the replies. It seems to be a hard subject to tackle, and a combination of many factors. Sounds like the taxes are a killer. Speaking of Edmonton and the Oilers, what is the situation with oil there? I've heard some pretty wild stories of huge stocks of oil in Alberta and was wondering what benefit the provence/the teams get out of that? Thanks.
Splatman Phanutier said:
Don't tell any of you fellow Flames fans that - they seem to think they are immune to these problems.
And I wouldn't bet on someone rushing to buy the Oilers with the intentions of keeping them here. I still remember dreaming about beating Les Alexander to a bloody pulp.
fischer8 said:
The province gets tons of oil money and we're the richest and only debt-free province, but I'm not sure what the teams get if anything. But I know that there are companies that occupy some of the mid-level suites.
Really... anyone who believes that is an idiot.Hootchie Cootchie said:
From most Flames fans I've talked to, they know that if Cal Nicholas gives up on the Oilers... well at least our last game was the Stanley Cup finals.
The Flames owners can afford to take the hits. In fact, if you read each owners profile and their income, they could make the Toronto Maple Leafs squeel like a little school girl if they wanted. However, since they are businessman and run the Flames more out of interest then a hobby, the organization is run like a small market.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
fischer8 said:
Well it doesnt really matter. I dont think Oiler fans want to see Oil companies getting anywhere near our hockey team. Oil companies=Corruption for the most part...Although I believe some of the rich boys down south like Hotchkiss have a long history in the oil industry.
How many of the Oilers owners are big Oil businessman?Hootchie Cootchie said:
I believe the Oilers are owned mostly by a "small" millionair businessman.
And no, the provincial government contributes nadda to either team. Harley Hotchkiss worked closely with Oilers char to try and hammer something out a few years ago, but it never went through.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
Splatman Phanutier
"Really... anyone who believes that is an idiot".
I take it your not a member at that flame fan site...what the heck is it called? The eqivalent of oilfans.com
"Really... anyone who believes that is an idiot".
I take it your not a member at that flame fan site...what the heck is it called? The eqivalent of oilfans.com
Last edited:
Splatman Phanutier said:
I don't know their collective value, and I'm assuming you don't either. I'd like to know though.
Yup they sure doOilerFan4Life said:
Look up each owner and their history:
http://calgaryflames.com/team/owners.html
I've heard they're nice guys, but schrewd businessman.
I've also heard it said that another factor against EDM (in a vs. CAL sense) is that EDM's season ticket base has (I'm stating this as fact, but really just assuming) more individuals as opposed of businesses, and therefore can charge less since the average guys can't write his tickets off as corporations can.
For the past few years, yes that has been true... alot of season tickets have been bought by big corps. However, many pulled back last season to accodimdate the Flames in the playoffs so they wouldn't go to waste... or something like that.speeds said:
Rextall also has half the number of box's, right? It's a small building... I swear, everytime I go there, it gets smaller and smaller.
- Status
