Question about heel lock

[Scoracek]

I went to pure hockey last Sunday, got measured on the Bauer 3D lab and it recommended the vapor line in a 6.5. The guy brought out a pair of vapors and jetspeeds, so I tried them both on and I ended up liking the vapors better because they seemed like a better overall fit and were more comfy because my toes were crammed up against the toe box in the jetspeeds. My problem is in both skates when I would flex my foot forward I could feel my heels picking up a little and the same happened when I was walking in them.

My question is will the heel get better after they are baked or should I try another size? I’m not too sure I can go down a size because I think they’d be too short length wise.

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[Bruckuss]

Out of the box comfort first and foremost, go as small as you can without more than a feathering of the toe cap (it will go away once broken in). Toes will also pull back when you stand and bend your knees in store, this is how they should feel on the ice (athletic stance vs standing upright). Your feet swell towards the end of the day, so try to shop around the same times that you tend to play.

As for heel lock, you can try aftermarket footbeds (superfeet), different lacing techniques, even sock weight, and yes the baking will help somewhat.. If it's noticeably lifting (keying on how you get the heel to lift - lift when bending knees is very bad, lift while you straighten your ankle while walking isn't) and you cannot get that sorted out, keep looking. I would sacrifice an ounce of initial comfort for an extra ounce of lock.. Movement is no good down the road in the boot for performance and durability of the liner.

 

[Scoracek]

Out of the box comfort first and foremost, go as small as you can without more than a feathering of the toe cap (it will go away once broken in). Toes will also pull back when you stand and bend your knees in store, this is how they should feel on the ice (athletic stance vs standing upright). Your feet swell towards the end of the day, so try to shop around the same times that you tend to play.

As for heel lock, you can try aftermarket footbeds (superfeet), different lacing techniques, even sock weight, and yes the baking will help somewhat.. If it's noticeably lifting (keying on how you get the heel to lift - lift when bending knees is very bad, lift while you straighten your ankle while walking isn't) and you cannot get that sorted out, keep looking. I would sacrifice an ounce of initial comfort for an extra ounce of lock.. Movement is no good down the road in the boot for performance and durability of the liner.

Thanks for the reply! I think a different lacing method would help me with heel lock in my new skates because it helped with my old skates but they were simply too big for it to be as effective.

I have terrible arch pain when skating, which is the main reason why I’m looking for new skates. Tried superfeet, different socks, lacing methods, nothing seems to work. In the store just trying on new skates and standing in them kills my feet. I put a Bauer insole in and it didn’t help, then the guy got a pair of CCM insoles with different arch attachments and they seemed to actually work. I really hope it gets rid of the pain because I’m trying to learn how to skate and paid for a few sessions of lessons and I could barely do anything because of the pain.

 

[Bruckuss]

Arch pain could be as simple as feet not being used to being in boots. Could also be due to laces being too tight.... If your skates are sloppy, or heels are slipping - and then you crank down on laces, this is bad and can lead to numbness and pain. Laces basically close the boot to your foot, they need only be snug in the midfoot and forefoot areas especially. Progressively tighter over the instep, and top is personal preference.

Could be an issue with your arch length (some people do have longer or shorter toes vs average, an old school brannock device (metal shoe store measuring device) can measure this. If the arch length is longer than the foot length, that needs to be factored into your sizing... Less an issue for footwear, moreso an issue for skates and ski boots where precision fit is important for control. Longer arch means your "wide spot" of the foot is more forward, so skate toe boxes will feel narrower for example. This same measurement (along with total foot length) can be taken seating vs standing, and the difference is what you are looking for. A change of half a size larger when standing, indicates a flexible foot. Flexible feet will "splay" and widen when load bearing, and generally require MORE rigid or corrective measures from a footbed standpoint. In footwear, less of a challenge. In skates, there already is some hard arch material - trial and (and trying on lots of styles) is key.

With Easton and Mission gone, our options for skates are pretty much limited to Bauer or CCM unless you go full custom.

Look for a good fitter, who understands foot mechanics and skate boot fit, that is the best advice I can give you online... I am from Canada, so no referrals from my end. I spent MANY years in that industry in a previous capacity, so I tend to chime in here and there.

On that note, I spent some time in the ski boot industry as well - we used to cure heel lift in womens ski boots with a heel wedge (picture a thin doorstop, up to about 3/8" thick at the thickest point) inserted under your footbed. This would keep the foot pushed up into the tongue area, and also move center of gravity forward (good for skiing, not so great for skating). If that cures your need to crank laces and stops heel lift, you can always get your skate blades profiled to re-pitch the balance point further back..

Good luck, and LGF

 

[Bruckuss]

Also, in case this is not explained or obvious - with superfeet or other footbeds, you fit the hard arch part to the heel width and arch length, generally using a much longer size than both the foot and the skate itself. Ex, in a superfeet you might be a sz 11 equivalent, especially with a wider foot.

Then you must trim the footbed to fit the skate, in about 20 years of selling and fitting, I think I was able to match the correct footbed to a customers foot and have it slip right into the skate or ski boot maybe once or twice. Probably fitted and sold over 1000 of them in my time... Guessing you aren't the 1 in a 1000, and if they didn't have to trim the footbed, they are doing it wrong..

 

[thedonger]

I went to pure hockey last Sunday, got measured on the Bauer 3D lab and it recommended the vapor line in a 6.5. The guy brought out a pair of vapors and jetspeeds, so I tried them both on and I ended up liking the vapors better because they seemed like a better overall fit and were more comfy because my toes were crammed up against the toe box in the jetspeeds. My problem is in both skates when I would flex my foot forward I could feel my heels picking up a little and the same happened when I was walking in them.

My question is will the heel get better after they are baked or should I try another size? I’m not too sure I can go down a size because I think they’d be too short length wise.

i actually disagree with bruckuss's initital reply re: "out of the box comfort" to a degree. over the years, i've tried on several skate that felt great out of the box only to become a sloppy mess after baking and/or break in.
these days, one of the biggest things i look for is heel lock. if heel lock is loose or sloppy out of the box, it'll only get worse after baking and breaking as skates only tend to "open up" over time and not shrink. yes, there are ways to jerry-rig a boot to help increase heel lock(like baking with something clamping the heel or wearing something like a stable 26 sock with heel inserts) but those fixes are mainly for fine tuning the fit if it's a bit off, not fixing fit if there's a lot of heel slop.
as long as everything else fits within reason, ie boot not way too shallow or too deep, boots not ridiculously too narrow in the forefoot and toes not completely crammed up against the toe box, i generally like to go as small as possible as a boot can be punched for width(within reason) and "hot spots"...but negative space, like a heel pocket or toe box that is too wide, is very difficult to impossible to fill.

 

[Bruckuss]

i actually disagree with bruckuss's initital reply re: "out of the box comfort" to a degree. over the years, i've tried on several skate that felt great out of the box only to become a sloppy mess after baking and/or break in.
these days, one of the biggest things i look for is heel lock. if heel lock is loose or sloppy out of the box, it'll only get worse after baking and breaking as skates only tend to "open up" over time and not shrink. yes, there are ways to jerry-rig a boot to help increase heel lock(like baking with something clamping the heel or wearing something like a stable 26 sock with heel inserts) but those fixes are mainly for fine tuning the fit if it's a bit off, not fixing fit if there's a lot of heel slop.
as long as everything else fits within reason, ie boot not way too shallow or too deep, boots not ridiculously too narrow in the forefoot and toes not completely crammed up against the toe box, i generally like to go as small as possible as a boot can be punched for width(within reason) and "hot spots"...but negative space, like a heel pocket or toe box that is too wide, is very difficult to impossible to fill.

By no means am I advocating a skate be too large in order to be comfortable, I assume that both sales rep and buyer are selecting the appropriate size (light feather of toe cap when standing straight, toes pull away when bending knees). To clarify, there are differences between the shape and fit (the "last") amongst brands and model lines, so finding the most comfortable "shape" prior to baking is the goal.

90% of the comfort is a properly fitting boot shape, the final 10% comes from baking (speed up the break in and begin the fine tune). Baking does not correct fit issues, it enhances the fit.