Quebec National Assembly considering bill to outlaw court challenges in arena/NHL bid

Etienne

Registered User
Oct 25, 2008
1,842
0
Montréal
The construction will go as scheduled. The law bill's purpose is to protect the agreement between the city and Quebecor. Both the city and the province have said that their $ commitment towards the construction is still the same.

Last week, both Labeaume and Péladeau said in front of the whole province that without the law they would be no arena at all. I'm very curious to see what's their plan now. There's no easy way out of this now. In september, student associations will go to war with any politician supporting a raise in higher education fees and this will probably be their flagship argument: "Winnipeg got a NHL team in a 135 millions arena, no reason to pay 400 millions for the one in QC while asking students to pay more."

What a mess...
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
106,428
19,466
Sin City
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=368183

CP story

Quebecor said it would keep trying to bring back the Nordiques -- but declared that the task had become harder.

"The optimal conditions for ensuring the return of a National Hockey League team are no longer aligned and the extra delays could compromise the ultimate objective," Quebecor head Pierre Karl Peladeau said in a statement.

The company issued that statement of disappointment after the Quebec legislature delayed passage of legislation related to the plan.
...
"Despite a result that isn't the one we would have wanted, I'd like to thank all the (parliamentarians) who gave their support to this bill and I would like to assure the public that we will continue to deploy all necessary efforts to make this project a success."

The company statement said that, while Quebecor will continue working to get a team, it will need to "take into account" recent events -- like the legal threats -- while drawing up a final contract.

The deal, as originally presented by Peladeau and Labeaume at a March news conference, called for Quebecor to hand the city $110 million to $200 million over 25 years for the right to name and manage any future arena.
 

RandR

Registered User
May 15, 2011
1,910
423
I'd love to see the NHL back in Quebec City, but the public has a right to say something stinks when they see governments and a well-connected corporation trying to not just cut corners but bypass the law, especially when so much taxpayer dollars are involved.

It's amazing to me that the provincial government even tried to pull a fast one on the public with this bill 204. :amazed:
 

Alex The Loyal

Andlauer Appreciator
Dec 4, 2010
5,332
195
UK
The public is probably cool with it. I mean, QC wants their Nords back right? As long as they don't completely **** this up and piss off everyone, the public is probably for it
 

Skarjak

Registered User
Sep 8, 2010
790
0
Toronto
I don't mind the city of Québec financing this arena. It's their infrastructure after all. Now, it almost certainly will not be profitable for the city, but if they feel this will improve their quality of life, it's their right to subsidize the construction of an NHL arena.

I don't agree with the province pitching in with 200 million dollars, though. This arena will not benefit the rest of the province in any way. There will not really be additional taxes, since people only have a finite amount of money to spend (so they will just spend it on hockey instead of something else) and the players tend to spend their summers elsewhere.

We will never recuperate these costs. While people may claim that other cities have received subsidies from the provincial government, these were for projects with a lot more certainty. Financing an arena without a team is quite different.

Now, if you take into account that the deal may actually be illegal... that makes things even worse. Our money should not serve to help the Quebecor empire expand.

I'm glad Charest did not jam this law through. He's experienced enough to know when he should just back off from a thorny issue.
 

Acesolid

The Illusive Bettman
Sep 21, 2010
2,538
323
Québec
I don't mind the city of Québec financing this arena. It's their infrastructure after all. Now, it almost certainly will not be profitable for the city, but if they feel this will improve their quality of life, it's their right to subsidize the construction of an NHL arena.

I don't agree with the province pitching in with 200 million dollars, though. This arena will not benefit the rest of the province in any way. There will not really be additional taxes, since people only have a finite amount of money to spend (so they will just spend it on hockey instead of something else) and the players tend to spend their summers elsewhere.

We will never recuperate these costs. While people may claim that other cities have received subsidies from the provincial government, these were for projects with a lot more certainty. Financing an arena without a team is quite different.

Now, if you take into account that the deal may actually be illegal... that makes things even worse. Our money should not serve to help the Quebecor empire expand.

I'm glad Charest did not jam this law through. He's experienced enough to know when he should just back off from a thorny issue.


Fine, but I'll protest injecting any money whatsoever into new bridges for montreal.

It'll never make a profit, and wont benefit the rest of the province in any way. There will not really be additional taxes, and who cares about the traffic in Montreal.

:shakehead


I'll say it one more time: We also pay taxes, we have to right to get some of it back!
 

Comedy Central*

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Fine, but I'll protest injecting any money whatsoever into new bridges for montreal.

It'll never make a profit, and wont benefit the rest of the province in any way. There will not really be additional taxes, and who cares about the traffic in Montreal.

:shakehead


I'll say it one more time: We also pay taxes, we have to right to get some of it back!
That's not too sharp a comment. Road infrastructure - particularly affecting access to Montreal - directly effects the economics of the Province as a whole.
 

Skarjak

Registered User
Sep 8, 2010
790
0
Toronto
I don't see how people can equate "arena without a team" to "building a new bridge" or "doing maintenance on a currently existing building".

One is a project that has no certainty. The others are to ensure our safety.

If you wish to gamble that Bettman will be kind enough to gift you a team, you should do so with your city's funds.

People complain about the OSM building, but at least there was an orchestra. There is currently no NHL team in Québec. You should find at least an AHL team to fill it, until you get what you want.
 

tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
75
I think there's a lot of confusion about this arena. What's happening here is not even well covered by the journalists here in Quebec. I just don't want to imagine what's being/translated said outside of Quebec about this.

Here's a short summmary of what's happening.

-The federal won't give any money to build this arena unlike the MTS Centre in Winnipeg.

-The cost of this arena is estimated at ~$400 million.

-~$15 million out of 400 will come from private funds (J'ai ma place).

-The city and the province of Quebec will pay 50% of what's left to pay.

-The construction is confirmed and announced. No doubt it will be built. There is nobody that discuss that anymore. The debate isn't anymore about building it or not.

-The city will own the building. The location of this arena is already chosen.

-The construction will start in 2013 and end in 2015. Why 2013 ? Needs have to be established, plans and technical specifications, etc. Remember we are not building this arena only for hockey but many different purposes. So, it must be well done...

-The city decided to not make a request for proposal for the arena management but to negociate with different interested investors. Kinda like an auction. They thought that they would receive better offers this way.

Quebecor won and then signed a binding agreement with the city.

Now, some guy in Quebec, De Belleval, claims this binding agreement is illegal and wants to sue the city.

Labeaume, the mayor then thought : "Ok. I think we made the good choice by having a kind of auction. It is maybe not permitted [legal] to do it this way, but we wouldn't have a better offer if we made a request for proposal. So, I'm going to ask the national assembly to have a private bill who would make our process legal. It's an exceptional project. This way, it's going to hurt De Belleval chances to win in court.".

The mayor then wanted it to be voted before this summer in order to sign the final contract with Quebecor. The binding agreement with Quebecor comes to an end in september. But in order to do be rushed and approved so quickly, it required an unanimous vote. Short summary : It wouldn't have passed (a lefty in Montreal wanted to veto it). So Quebec's premier, Jean Charest, decided to report the vote in September and it will be approved since it only requires a majority (the majority party, the liberals, said they'll vote for it.).

Now, the problem is when the national assembly will approve this private law, the binding agreement will have came to an end. Though, PKP already claimed his project isn't dead and he still wants a team.

As for De Belleval, the citizen who wants to sue the city, he's currently collecting funds in order to go to court despite the fact that the private bill will be approved.

Now, Quebec's lobbying commissioner has launched a probe into the arena project because apprently, only Bell and Quebecor have suscribed to the register of lobbyists (which was needed if you wanted to take part of this "auction"). And Bell made it only weeks later. They'll possibly receive a fine.

So, this is the deal with Quebecor that will have to be re-negociated most probably.
But the construction of the arena isn't compromised.
 
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tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
75
Not at the expense of the rest of the province.Our good "friend" PKP should foot the bill if he wants a team so badly.

Fine. But if that's the way things work, why is there a need for a provincial government ? After all, why would I personally pay for something/someone in Montreal or Laval or Sherbrooke ? Heck, why would I pay for my neighbour too ! No need for cities too !

Let's not pay any taxes. That would be great.
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
4,664
1,788
Fine. But if that's the way things work, why is there a need for a provincial government ? After all, why would I personally pay for something/someone in Montreal or Laval or Sherbrooke ? Heck, why would I pay for my neighbour too ! No need for cities too !

Let's not pay any taxes. That would be great.
You are just doing hyperbole and comparing apples and oranges now.

People have to right to be concerned that we have to foot the bills for an arena only for it to benefit a private company.Everywhere else they either build stadiums privately or get private funding but you are so desperate for a team that may never come that you don't care if you have to pay for a possible white elephant.
 

tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
75
You are just doing hyperbole and comparing apples and oranges now.

People have to right to be concerned that we have to foot the bills for an arena only for it to benefit a private company.Everywhere else they either build stadiums privately or get private funding but you are so desperate for a team that may never come that you don't care if you have to pay for a possible white elephant.

Totally wrong on this.

In fact, pretty much every arenas/stadiums in NA was financed using public funds.

http://law.marquette.edu/cgi-bin/site.pl?2130&pageID=3413

http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/temp/amphitheatre/docs/commission_fin_avec.pdf
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
4,664
1,788

tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
75
I think you have issues with reading comprehension.Most are not funded 100% by using public funds which is my point.

Also they were actually built for an existing team and not an imaginary one.

Ah ok. Well, the new arena in Quebec won't be built with 100% public funds too. More than $15 million will come from private funds.

http://www.jaimaplace.com/
 

Mungman

It's you not me.
Mar 27, 2011
2,988
0
Outside the Asylum
Ah ok. Well, the new arena in Quebec won't be built with 100% public funds too. More than $15 million will come from private funds.

http://www.jaimaplace.com/

Less than four percent contribution isn't really worth saying there is private investment in this project. This is a train wreck waiting to happen, PKP should buy himself either an AHL or ECHL team and start running a team day to day to get some experience in this business. This is nothing like what he's been doing, I think the NHL will be trying to push prospective owners into the tNSE model in the future. It les the league have a stalking horse for existing cities and let's the new ownership cut their teeth in the industry and do some networking with hockey people. It would screen out jackasses like ice edge and hulsizer from the process to.
 

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