Quebec National Assembly considering bill to outlaw court challenges in arena/NHL bid

[RandR]

But the deal with Quebecor which was giving to them without a competitive bid process has nothing to do with building the arena. What is being alleged is not that the arena shouldn't be built, but that any company should be allowed to bid on the management contract of the arena.

Basically, the government wants carte blanche to be able to hand out contracts to its buddies without ever having to go through a competitve bidding process, which is absolutely ludicrous.

This isn't about an arena, this is about the government handing out contracts without having any transparency and without making sure it's the best deal for the taxpayers.

People are going crazy about collusion and favortism in the construction industry, yet they see no problem with the government handing over a contract worth hundreds of millions to Quebecor, because they really really really want an arena...

I completely agree with this viewpoint.

Why have laws requiring a public tender process if a government can simply ignore those laws when it suits them?

And on top of that, this bill 204 now says that the public has no right to challenge a contract that may have been illegally awarded.

If this is typical politics in Quebec City, then it's no wonder why we see things like the Macleans cover story last year that named Quebec as Canada's most corrupt province.

 

[La Grosse Tendresse]

It's ironic that the very same people who took Quebec out of the Great Darkness does not wish a great project such as this to go forward, despite their saying otherwise.

A great project? You mean giving tens of millions of dollars to Quebecor? Again, this is NOT about building the arena, the deal was already in place BEFORE the whole Labeaume/Quebecor saga.

Labeaume/PKP changed the issue from being who was going to run the arena to wheter or not an arena is being built, but that is simply posturing in order to get their bill approved by the government.

It was announced before the Quebecor deal that an arena was going to be built with 100% public funds, $200-mil coming from the Province and the rest coming from the city through the sale of bonds. The city would then pay back the bonds by making money from naming rights and a management contract (rent).

Now, Labeaume decided that he was giving the naming rights and management contract to Quebecor without going through a bid process, which is probably illegal. To justify his position, he just states random things such as: Quebecor can get us an NHL team, Quebecor's deal is better than anything ever created in the world, if we don't get the deal with Quebecor then Bettman will laugh at us, and **** Montréal. Now, if Quebecor's offer is so generous, than why couldn't they see what Bell or whoever else had to offer? If there was no other offer on the table, then why aren't they more transparent in their dealings? Plus, if Quebecor is able to secure an NHL team, than their deal would automatically be worth much more than any other company that couldn't secure an NHL team.

There is NO reason why Quebecor couldn't win a regular bidding process if they were really the only game in town capable of bringing in an NHL team. Then why not do it the right way??? Labeaume's only answer to that is that this is an urgent matter, but is it really? The building can still be built without having those naming rights sold yet.

Again, this is NOT about building an arena with public funds. The financing is already in place and it was already accepted by both the provincial and municipal government. It's not because the Quebecor deal isn't legal that the arena construction is illegal, and it's not because Labeaume can't give a contract to his buddy that the arena can't be built. Unless of course Labeaume was already full of it when he declared that they were building the arena without a private partner and that he already knew that he would give it to Quebecor.

With this law, the government won't have to answer to anyone while handing out contracts. Anybody not from Quebec City realizes how completely ludicrous it is, yet people in Quebec don't realize the impact this could have not just regarding to this deal, but to whatever future dealing the city wants to do in the future.

 

[Shawa666]

A great project? You mean giving tens of millions of dollars to Quebecor? Again, this is NOT about building the arena, the deal was already in place BEFORE the whole Labeaume/Quebecor saga.

Labeaume/PKP changed the issue from being who was going to run the arena to wheter or not an arena is being built, but that is simply posturing in order to get their bill approved by the government.

It was announced before the Quebecor deal that an arena was going to be built with 100% public funds, $200-mil coming from the Province and the rest coming from the city through the sale of bonds. The city would then pay back the bonds by making money from naming rights and a management contract (rent).

Now, Labeaume decided that he was giving the naming rights and management contract to Quebecor without going through a bid process, which is probably illegal. To justify his position, he just states random things such as: Quebecor can get us an NHL team, Quebecor's deal is better than anything ever created in the world, if we don't get the deal with Quebecor then Bettman will laugh at us, and **** Montréal. Now, if Quebecor's offer is so generous, than why couldn't they see what Bell or whoever else had to offer? If there was no other offer on the table, then why aren't they more transparent in their dealings? Plus, if Quebecor is able to secure an NHL team, than their deal would automatically be worth much more than any other company that couldn't secure an NHL team.

There is NO reason why Quebecor couldn't win a regular bidding process if they were really the only game in town capable of bringing in an NHL team. Then why not do it the right way??? Labeaume's only answer to that is that this is an urgent matter, but is it really? The building can still be built without having those naming rights sold yet.

Again, this is NOT about building an arena with public funds. The financing is already in place and it was already accepted by both the provincial and municipal government. It's not because the Quebecor deal isn't legal that the arena construction is illegal, and it's not because Labeaume can't give a contract to his buddy that the arena can't be built. Unless of course Labeaume was already full of it when he declared that they were building the arena without a private partner and that he already knew that he would give it to Quebecor.

With this law, the government won't have to answer to anyone while handing out contracts. Anybody not from Quebec City realizes how completely ludicrous it is, yet people in Quebec don't realize the impact this could have not just regarding to this deal, but to whatever future dealing the city wants to do in the future.

Mmm.... It's Quebecor that's giving money to the City... Just sayan.

 

[La Grosse Tendresse]

Mmm.... It's Quebecor that's giving money to the City... Just sayan.

Wow, another lame Labeaume argument. Yes, Quebecor is paying the city, but they are paying an amount that might be below market value, since there is no way to check. The end result of getting too little revenue when selling something or of paying too much when buying something is the same to the taxpayer, he ends up getting less for his tax dollars.

If the City decides to sell a vacant lot worth 1 million to it's buddy for $10, is it okay?

Because that's what you (and Labeaume) are saying, that as long as the City gets something out of it then it's free to negociate with whomever and doesn't have to get the best deal possible for the people...

 

[Kebekoi]

Wow, another lame Labeaume argument. Yes, Quebecor is paying the city, but they are paying an amount that might be below market value, since there is no way to check. The end result of getting too little revenue when selling something or of paying too much when buying something is the same to the taxpayer, he ends up getting less for his tax dollars.

If the City decides to sell a vacant lot worth 1 million to it's buddy for $10, is it okay?

Because that's what you (and Labeaume) are saying, that as long as the City gets something out of it then it's free to negociate with whomever and doesn't have to get the best deal possible for the people...

If it was an "official" bid, the contract would have been to the highest bidder without taking in intangibles (NHL hockey).
Bell would had NO (zéro, 0%) interest in owning a NHL club in Québec while selling their parts in MTL.

Maybe the contract would have even been lower if it wasn't an auction like that.

 

[Shawa666]

Wow, another lame Labeaume argument. Yes, Quebecor is paying the city, but they are paying an amount that might be below market value, since there is no way to check. The end result of getting too little revenue when selling something or of paying too much when buying something is the same to the taxpayer, he ends up getting less for his tax dollars.

If the City decides to sell a vacant lot worth 1 million to it's buddy for $10, is it okay?

Because that's what you (and Labeaume) are saying, that as long as the City gets something out of it then it's free to negociate with whomever and doesn't have to get the best deal possible for the people...

We've seen numbers for the naming rights section, and they were in the price range of other comparable arenas.

And as Kebekoi said, the possibility of a NHL team in Québec could have been blocked if Labeaume had gone at it through a bid process.

 

[Etienne]

We've seen numbers for the naming rights section, and they were in the price range of other comparable arenas.

And as Kebekoi said, the possibility of a NHL team in Québec could have been blocked if Labeaume had gone at it through a bid process.

Bullsh--. I'm not buying this argument at all. If Habs owners (Molsons and Bell) want to block the Nordiques' return, all they have to do is say it to Bettman and the other owners. No one will go against them on this issue, not when the Habs are such a huge cash cow, one of the oldest team in the league and while Molson-Coor is offering the biggest sponsorship deal in NHL history (375 millions). Evenko might be after monopoly for international artists performing in an arena, sure, but I fail to see how that is bad for Quebec City or how this has anything to do with the Nords. They're pretty good at what they do, I mean, they turned the Bell Center in one of the busiest arena on the continent.

 

[Shawa666]

Bullsh--. I'm not buying this argument at all. If Habs owners (Molsons and Bell) want to block the Nordiques' return, all they have to do is say it to Bettman and the other owners. No one will go against them on this issue, not when the Habs are such a huge cash cow, one of the oldest team in the league and while Molson-Coor is offering the biggest sponsorship deal in NHL history (375 millions). Evenko might be after monopoly for international artists performing in an arena, sure, but I fail to see how that is bad for Quebec City or how this has anything to do with the Nords. They're pretty good at what they do, I mean, they turned the Bell Center in one of the busiest arena on the continent.

The Habs can't veto a move to Québec at the BOG level. Québec is too far from Montréal for that. Furthermore, it would not be a wise move for Molson and Bell tu publicly deny Québec a second chance at the NHL. Molson tried during the first attempt at a WHA-NHL merger and got bitten in the ass for it. It's just a dumb move marketing wise.

Oh and by the way, that deal you're talking about was deemed illegal by an Ontario judge.

 

[Phil Parent]

So it's all happening today...I just don't know at what hour and that's sort of a problem since I'm following the story here...

Latest news:

- PQ leader Pauline Marois is still supporting the bill after 3 of her MPs left the party in protest of it. She said that she offered the 3 MPs to abstain to vote, but they didn't accept.

- De Belleval is quoted this morning saying he doesn't think the 150,000$ he wants to raise to fight the law in Superior Court will be enough. He says that "lawyer fees and obstacles" make the "hair raise on our heads". He also admits having no idea how much money was raised so far.

My opinion is that the money is going right to his pocket. Nowhere on his site does it say it will be reimbursed in case he doesn't go through with his action.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

The Habs can't veto a move to Québec at the BOG level. Québec is too far from Montréal for that.

Apparently, no single team has any veto.

I think the point was that the Habs have enough influence within the BOG to have it their way.

 

[Phil Parent]

A 4th PQ MP (Aussant, of Yamaska-Nicolet. The county next to mine.) has left the party over this.

The fact of the matter is, the Liberals have a majority government. It can't NOT pass.

Parliament is in session starting at 13h45.

EDIT: Some commission's on right now...why is it that National Assembly TV plays European classical music during breaks? Don't we have enough freakin' singers to chose from to put on there? National Pride, my big white sagging ass alright!

 

[Kebekoi]

A 4th PQ MP (Aussant, of Yamaska-Nicolet. The county next to mine.) has left the party over this.

The fact of the matter is, the Liberals have a majority government. It can't NOT pass.

Parliament is in session starting at 13h45.

The rats are leaving the ship.

 

[Phil Parent]

OT comment, National Assembly TV needs play-by-play. A certain incident a couple years ago would have been that much better...

Charest: "That's the lowest this assembly has ever been, you ****ing *****!!!"
PBP: "Oh! Premier Charest just called that young PQ MP a b..."
PBP2: "Woah, settle down!"

 

[Phil Parent]

You are NOT going to believe this. Three words to define what we apparently will withness today.

Amir Khadir. FILLIBUSTER.

M. Dougherty (Kevin): ...do at 2:00 o'clock, on Tuesday, when the hearings resume? That will be...

M. Khadir: I will object.

M. Dougherty (Kevin): Object?

M. Khadir: I will object. I will not give my consentment to the law to process.

M. Dougherty (Kevin): ...sort of a filibuster. Are you going to drag it out, or you're just going to say no?

M. Khadir: Yes. At the point where the law has to be processed within... not in the commission but in the Chamber, in the Assembly, it will require my consentment, and I will refuse. There is no discussion. Thank you for your presence. Goodbye.

Khadir is crossing the street from mild annoyance to cartoonish supervillainy.

 

[barneyg]

It's ironic that the very same people who took Quebec out of the Great Darkness does not wish a great project such as this to go forward, despite their saying otherwise.

Ironic, I don't know. This has nothing to do with the arena, and everything to do with Pauline Marois.

I'd like to get the Nordiques back but I don't like the fact that the arena will be financed with 100% public funds. That said, if Pierre Curzi is against something, I'm probably for it (if only for that reason).

 

[Phil Parent]

Well that's it. If Khadir makes it to 9PM tonight and doesn't shut the **** up, there won't be a law.

 

[Kebekoi]

Well that's it. If Khadir makes it to 9PM tonight and doesn't shut the **** up, there won't be a law.

They could literally use the "baillon" on him and gag him.

 

[Phil Parent]

Khadir just allowed the report on the parliamentary commission on Bill 204 to right through...

You'd think he'd try to sneak in some chatter in there. That's not the law itself though.

 

[Shawa666]

And Charest just pushed back the adoption of the law to the fall session, according to the SRC

 

[Kebekoi]

I wonder if the agreement between Labeaume and Peladeau would be still valid by then.

Politicians

 

[Melrose Munch]

construction will not start until 2016 now?

 

[Dom]

The construction will go as scheduled. The law bill's purpose is to protect the agreement between the city and Quebecor. Both the city and the province have said that their $ commitment towards the construction is still the same.

 

[RandR]

And Charest just pushed back the adoption of the law to the fall session, according to the SRC

This is also being reported by other sources, including Le Soleil...

Québec laisse tomber le projet de loi sur l'amphithéâtre

Charest said that they will give the issue more time by re-addressing the bill in September. "Quebeckers have questions about the bill."

EDIT: I'll bet some of Charest's own MNA's are getting an earful from their constituents about this bill.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The construction will go as scheduled. The law bill's purpose is to protect the agreement between the city and Quebecor. Both the city and the province have said that their $ commitment towards the construction is still the same.

Ok. Thank You.

 

[Dom]

I wonder if the agreement between Labeaume and Peladeau would be still valid by then.

Politicians

Its valid until it's broken in court. It seems that De Belleval has trouble getting money to bring the issue in the courts.

Also, let's not forget something: the city rushed the contract with Quebecor so it could turn around to Harper and say ''see, we have private investment now, pay up!''. This failed of course. Since that and the fact that no team will move to Quebec this summer, the urgency of this contract has lost its value.

EDIT- Reread an article and it said that both parties (Quebecor and Quebec City) will sign the final agreement on sept 7th so I guess both could reneg on the deal if they see a possibility of it dragging into the courts.