Quebec National Assembly considering bill to outlaw court challenges in arena/NHL bid

[Sideline]

I have a question: if Quebec City really is a viable market for a National Hockey League franchise, then why is no group willing or able to make the investment necessary to bring a team there without massive public subsidy? If it really were an NHL market, then Quebecor wouldn't need to loot the public treasury and take advantage of useful idiots in the electorate in order to make it happen. That they cannot or will not shows that Quebec City is not a viable market.

Inability to cover initial capital costs != Inability to cover annual operating costs.

 

[Mungman]

Here's a better idea: make Quebecor or whoever pay for their own arena. Use public funds to improve schools and hospitals.

While I agree that would be a great idea in the real world, but this is not the real world it is politics. Not only is it politics it is Quebec politics, things don't happen in Quebec without someone else's money being reappropraited by the government.

 

[GordonGraham]

Here's a better idea: make Quebecor or whoever pay for their own arena. Use public funds to improve schools and hospitals.

Since the fed gov isnt paying one cent i think that decision belongs to the people of quebec.

 

[Kimota]

Some people are so obsessed with the new arena that they don't care that they are paying 400 million out of their own pockets for a millionaire and his buddies to come in and reap the profits.

This type of law is something you would see in some heavily corrupt banana republic.

Actually with the money Quebecor is putting into it, the city would have spent around 40 millions. So 240 million is not too bad.

The law may be quite something but it's pretty smart of the Mayor to have come up with the idea.

Breaking News:

Quebecor Mayor Regis Labeaume said "No Law, No Arena". That's a nice way to put pressure on Amir Khadir. If it fks up, Khadir would be in hot water.

 

[billy blaze]

Legislative Bill died

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...a-backers-endure-more-hurdles/article2029149/

Though the opposition Parti Quebecois agreed to sponsor such a bill, it would have required unanimous consent to be tabled given the deadline for private member’s legislation has passed.

Independent MNA Eric Caire – and another former Action democratique MNA, Marc Picard – have refused to give their consent, so that’s it until the legislature opens a new session in the fall.

 

[Dooman]

This is the problem here. It goes for my Ottawa example, and the situation in Quebec City (not to mention the situations currently unfolding in Edmonton and Winnipeg). A vocal, narrow-minded minority hijacks every stadium debate and twists it into an issue about the merits of professional sports teams and stadiums, completely ignoring the fact that such infrastructure serves a multitude of other civic functions.

An arena in Quebec City would not host professional hockey 41 nights a year and then sit dark the other 341 nights, nor would a stadium in Ottawa host football nine days a year, and collect dust the other 356.

Wow.... I knew Quebec had some weird things, but since when did they have an extra 3 weeks/year on the rest of the world?

 

[Shawa666]

Well, Picard just lost my vote.

 

[yotesreign]

I have a question: if Quebec City really is a viable market for a National Hockey League franchise, then why is no group willing or able to make the investment necessary to bring a team there without massive public subsidy? If it really were an NHL market, then Quebecor wouldn't need to loot the public treasury and take advantage of useful idiots in the electorate in order to make it happen. That they cannot or will not shows that Quebec City is not a viable market.

Deja vu

I've only been hearing that argument for two years now regarding a market south of the border...

 

[htpwn]

Deja vu

I've only been hearing that argument for two years now regarding a market south of the border...

Except in this case, I believe he was referring to the funding of the arena, which is different then subsidizing the team itself.

Getting public funds to build an arena, as much as I am against it, is something that happens very often in today's world of professional sports.

Getting public funds to cover your losses or to buy a parking lot... little bit different in that the team itself is being subsidized.

 

[Ernie]

yeah, I disagree with the principle of public funding for arenas, but it's a bit of a far cry from the Phoenix situation.

Hard to find a jurisdiction where they haven't spent public money on a stadium.. the Province of British Columbia just spent $400m on a roof for the stadium they own that houses a MLS and a CFL team (and the MLS team might not even stay). No way that's going to be financially sustainable. And yet I've heard little outcry about that; most of the complaining seems to be how ugly the roof looks.

 

[Matrix78]

Legislative Bill died

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...a-backers-endure-more-hurdles/article2029149/

you are not up to date :

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110519/mtl_arena_110519/20110519

Quebec Solidaire's lone MNA Amir Khadir is not exactly convinced that the arena deal struck by Quebec City Mayor Regis Labeaume with Quebecor is perfectly legal, but Khadir announced Thursday he is at least willing to debate the point in the National Assembly.

Shortly thereafter, independent MNAs Eric Caire and Marc Picard also announced they wouldn't block the introduction of a bill [...]

 

[badinsults]

There's a fairly good summary on Maclean's:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/21/hey-nordiques-fans-ever-get-the-feeling-youve-been-cheated/

Sounds pretty crooked, if you ask me.

 

[Matrix78]

There's a fairly good summary on Maclean's:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/21/hey-nordiques-fans-ever-get-the-feeling-youve-been-cheated/

Sounds pretty crooked, if you ask me.

Laurent Lessard, the province’s municipal affairs minister, announced this week that government lawyers had ruled the contract illegal.

But later the government lawyers said the deal could not be illegal afterall...
It is why Eric Caire changed his mind and he agreed to hear the bill.

 

[Shawa666]

There's a fairly good summary on Maclean's:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/21/hey-nordiques-fans-ever-get-the-feeling-youve-been-cheated/

Sounds pretty crooked, if you ask me.

MacLean's is not exactly the best source you can have for something happening in Quebec.

Gohier states a total cost in excess of 500M$. and liks to his source, which is himself.

He mistakenly supposes that what Quebecor as greed to pay for the naming rights and as a rent for the building will be used to supplement the money both governments have earmarked towards the construction.

as in 200+200+141.25=541.25

What has been planned is that the money Pealadeau sepnds on the project will reimburse the governments.

as in 200+200-141.25= 258.75

Furthermore, Gohier states that the MAMROT (Ministry of Municipal Affairs, Regions and Land Occupancy) has deemed the transaction as being illegal. It's not the case. They did say that it's an unusual but not necessearily illegal way of doing things.

See the CBC's article

 

[syc]

Some people are so obsessed with the new arena that they don't care that they are paying 400 million out of their own pockets for a millionaire and his buddies to come in and reap the profits.

This type of law is something you would see in some heavily corrupt banana republic.

It's amazing and then next week each and every one of them will complain that taxes are too high. I guess this is how it works in these small markets now. See the Oilers for another example of a millionaire getting millions in tax money to keep the Oilers in Edmonton.

 

[syc]

Too be fair Alberta can at least afford to waste that money. I'm pretty sure Quebec can't.

 

[puckhead103*]

Legislative Bill died

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...a-backers-endure-more-hurdles/article2029149/

don't want to sound like a dummy...but what does that mean for the future?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The bill doesn't have to be accepted unanimously. It needs the unamity to be processed AND then go to a vote. After that, standard procedure applies.

 

[Kimota]

The bill doesn't have to be accepted unanimously. It needs the unamity to be processed AND then go to a vote. After that, standard procedure applies.

Are you sure about that? The way they said it, it seems to me like Mayor Labeaume courted Kadir because the deputies has to vote for it unanimously for it to pass.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Hard to find a jurisdiction where they haven't spent public money on a stadium.. the Province of British Columbia just spent $400m on a roof for the stadium they own that houses a MLS and a CFL team (and the MLS team might not even stay). No way that's going to be financially sustainable. And yet I've heard little outcry about that; most of the complaining seems to be how ugly the roof looks.

BC Place is undergoing a (much-needed) complete retrofit, not just a roof replacement. And personally I think the new roof looks ****ing cool, but whatever.

What's this about the Whitecaps possibly moving, though? I finally had a reason to start following MLS because of them

 

[Shawa666]

BC Place is undergoing a (much-needed) complete retrofit, not just a roof replacement. And personally I think the new roof looks ****ing cool, but whatever.

What's this about the Whitecaps possibly moving, though? I finally had a reason to start following MLS because of them

They're just planning to build themselves a soccer.

 

[barneyg]

Are you sure about that? The way they said it, it seems to me like Mayor Labeaume courted Kadir because the deputies has to vote for it unanimously for it to pass.

Jordan Staal is right -- for a private (opposition-sponsored) bill to be added to the legislative agenda, every MP needs to agree. Once the bill is put on the agenda, everyone will debate it and then vote on it using standard procedure. In this case, given that the Libs in power have backed the Mayor all along, if it's on the agenda, it will pass. The only part that needs unanimity is the changing of the "ordre du jour" so to speak.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Jordan Staal is right -- for a private (opposition-sponsored) bill to be added to the legislative agenda, every MP needs to agree. Once the bill is put on the agenda, everyone will debate it and then vote on it using standard procedure. In this case, given that the Libs in power have backed the Mayor all along, if it's on the agenda, it will pass. The only part that needs unanimity is the changing of the "ordre du jour" so to speak.

Actually, there are three steps.

First, the MPs have to vote to accept the presentation of the bill.

Second, they have to vote on "can we vote on that?" after some debates.

Finally, they vote on it like they vote on every bill.

Labeaume courted Khadir because he wanted his bill to be debated. Khadir accepted that they bill be presented because he could block it on step 2 if he felt that something was wrong with it.

 

[Kimota]

The press is saying Kadir has the ability to kill the Bill but since the Prime Minister is obviously for it, he could create another law linking business and goverment and that would make Kadir's vote unnecessary. Something of the sort. They said because of his power, Charest has something like three or four tools he could use to make sure the Bill passes.

 

[billy blaze]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Bill+would+okay+Quebec+arena+deal/4843647/story.html

Bill has been introduced- seems to have opposition- reporter states Khadir has a veto, sounds like he will use it

Amir Khadir, the sole Québec solidaire MNA, has indicated he could use the veto he has in this case, because the bill was presented after an assembly deadline, to block passage of Bill 204.

“This is the type of thing that Quebecers really don’t want,†Khadir said, noting that the bill would make the agreement with Quebecor retroactively legal

“We want everyone to be equal before the law,†he said.

On Wednesday Khadir described as “very bad†the agreement with Quebecor, suggesting he could use his veto power after public hearings on the bill next week.