World Cup: QF: Russia vs. Croatia, 7/7/2018

[nickp91]

So glad sunil gulati was able to enjoy the World Cup

 

[Jussi]

Initial claim ignores the fact that Rodchenkov revoked his accusations in court. That's why Russians were returned their medals and still hold number 1 spot in Sochi Olympics. Lying in court is pretty dangerous game and he didn't dare to play it. Athletes that never failed a test were banned from the next Winter Olympics including South Korean athlete competing for Russia. How Rodchenkov did in court came only well after the Seoul Olympics but wasn't reported in the Western media. Basically "state sponsored doping program" looks like a bogus at this point.

If someone attempts to play trust-don't trust game then let's not hide behind whataboutism. Dr Mark Bonar of UK getting cought recently and how many such doctors are out there?! UK's out of nowhere success in London Olympics could raise some eyebrows, they performed like never before out-medalling Russia, a country with quite bigger population, and these days they are outperforming China too, standing only behind US. It cannot be explained by "crowd support" as we are mainly talking about power oriented sports, not game sports like soccer. And how can we forget pretty big number of US top names testing positive. So yeah lets not hold Russians to some special/higher standards here.

Source?

Second bolded part, you do realize they still have the test samples from those games? And people are still getting caught on re-test of those samples? But it's not British athletes, rather Russians that are getting caught on those re-tests.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I remember that, and I also remember it got ignored when those players were transferred.

People should look up microdosing. If any individual has a good doctor they can't get caught. It's a new era and most everyone is doing something, the difference with Russia is, it seems they have a team/government program, which is always easy to find out about. Too many people have to know about it and not say anything.

Except for poor Martinez.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Feel sad but happy for the whole experience. What a game

 

[Slay]

Source?

There you go: WADA Whistleblower Rodchenkov Retracts Part of Doping Accusations Against Russia

According to the document published by CAS, Rodchenkov stated that he had never distributed the Duchess Cocktail, seen an athlete take the mixture or instruction being given to either them or to coaches to use the substance. Furthermore, he claimed that he never saw an athlete give a clear urine sample or “tamper with a doping sample.”

Responding to the question about the Duchess cocktail that he had created, having mixed alcohol with doping, Rodchenkov has said that he never gave it to any athletes from Russia and never saw anyone drinking it, or being instructed to use it.

Second bolded part, you do realisze tehy still have the test samples from those games? And people are still getting caught on re-test of those samples? But it's not British athletes, rather Russians that are getting caught on those re-tests.

Lance Armstrong and Carl Lewis say hello. I mean if you perform better than those who test positive then what are the chances you are clean yourself? Exactly.

 

[Jussi]

There you go: WADA Whistleblower Rodchenkov Retracts Part of Doping Accusations Against Russia

Sputniknews

You conveniently forgot this: Russian sports minister admits to doping programme

Lance Armstrong and Carl Lewis say hello. I mean if you perform better than those who test positive then what are the chances you are clean yourself? Exactly.

You do realize that we're talking a different era? The whole sports world is under more scrutiny than in the 80's and testing is far better and stricter.Also you're building quite a strawman there.

 

[Firsov99]

Sputniknews

You conveniently forgot this: Russian sports minister admits to doping programme



You do realize that we're talking a different era? The whole sports world is under more scrutiny than in the 80's and testing is far better and stricter.Also you're building quite a strawman there.

Indeed, it was a different era. But then you look at the Florence Griffith-Joyner 100m and 200m record times and realize how lucky some of the 80s athletes were to not get caught.

 

[N o o d l e s]

Wtf did this thread devolve into lmao

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Wtf did this thread devolve into lmao

It's those dame cheatin no good Latin Russian again.

 

[Acallabeth]

A great effort by the boys, proud to see that they give their all. It will be a new team next tournament, with no Ignashevish, Zhirkov and Samedov. I obviously hope that Smolov sticks to playing CS:GO and doesn't spit in his coach's trust like he did this tournament. Walking around all tournament, couldn't convert the chances created for him, failed the most important penalty and compared himself to Michael Jordan next

Wtf did this thread devolve into lmao

It always does when Jussi shows up in a thread about Russia.

 

[Slay]

Sputniknews

Did you expect CNN? Sorry they didn't report on CAS desicion. Seems like you are dismissing CAS report as invalid and same for Rodchenkov's new testimonies. Or you are claming that CAS desicion never took place and Sputniknews made it up even though there is a link to the respective document.

You conveniently forgot this: Russian sports minister admits to doping programme

I don't see where he says about admitting state doping programme. This is his only quote from that "reputable" article:

"We have stated in our letter that we do accept the decision of the International Olympic Committee, that we stand for cooperation with international organisations and are ready for a dialogue," Kolobkov said.

It is actually me who should be facepalming now.

You do realize that we're talking a different era? The whole sports world is under more scrutiny than in the 80's and testing is far better and stricter.Also you're building quite a strawman there.

Yeah it is different era now, many athletes perform a lot better these days. British doctor Mark Bonar is from this era and he predicscribed banned substances to as many as 150 athletes. I wonder how many of them tested positive, probably not many. Mark Bonar is gone now and those athletes will seek for another doctor.

 

[Evilo]

Source?

Second bolded part, you do realize they still have the test samples from those games? And people are still getting caught on re-test of those samples? But it's not British athletes, rather Russians that are getting caught on those re-tests.

Like the british cyclists?

 

[Eisen]

Dont really follow soccer so much but did think Russia would win.
To me it's looking like France will win cup
Incredible though that a country of over 4m ppl (Croatia) beats a country of over 144 m ppl (Russia) or a country of over 11m ppl(Belgium) beats a country of over 207m ppl.(Brésil)
Unbelievable

Population has little to do with it. It's all about structures. Otherwise China and India would be powerhouses.

 

[Eisen]

If you want to see a disgrace of a penalty, go watch Zaza kick against Germany in the EURO. Funniest I've ever seen.

What makes it even more ridiculous is that he was subbed to specifically shoot that penalty.

 

[Stray Wasp]

They’re limited players who have over performed. I don’t know why. I know the crowds. But I also have no problem saying that there always will be some suspicions about a country who has a known doping program that has been banned from the Olympics.

They did a great job, but some of the players were much better than they ever have been. All I’m asking and wondering is if it is just down to the fan support, or if anyone else wonders if some of the suspicions are more than just rumor mongering. I mean, when their best player has to come out and deny his dads statements that he was doping, it’s a bit suspicious. In the end, it doesn’t really matter, but they’ve over performed by a large margin that has to raise some suspicions. Russia is not this good.

I think we need to consider the context to Russia overperforming.

On seeing the group they'd drawn, who didn't expect them to reach the round of 16? True to expectations, they beat the two weaker teams in the group. Then the one good opponents they faced at that stage played beat them by three clear goals- a wider margin than I'd imagined likely.

They drew their next two games, effectively playing as the home team. I didn't see the Spain contest, but from what I gather Spain simply passed for passing's sake without clear purpose. If that's correct, little surprise that they struggled to capitalise on their early lead. Throw in an error giving Russia a penalty and the score is all square. And is it really so unexpected for an average team with home advantage to draw against good but fading opponents? After all, Spain were fresh from barely surviving against Morocco, before which they nearly contrived to draw with Iran.

As for Croatia, they seem to me discomforted the moment they cannot fly under the radar. The world and his dog has been saying this is their best, last chance to win a major tournament and it felt as though that inhibition weighed on them last night as much as it did against Denmark. It can't help that their coach is clearly concerned about the balance of his front six. For all that he scored, introducing Kramaric didn't solve the problem.

In short, then, Russia played five games, few of which were against opponents in top fettle, and won two. In four hours of knockout football they scored a penalty, a screamer, and a header from a badly-defended set-piece. Spurred on by national pride they were committed, but they certainly didn't overwhelm teams with the sort of late surges that suggest an outfit bursting with chemicals. Indeed, as we approached the 120th minute last night, both elevens seemed dead on their feet.

 

[Stray Wasp]

On the subject of drugs, let's not forget the spate of players who tested positive for nandrolone circa 2001. A not-comprehensive list includes Fernando Couto, Edgar Davids, Frank de Boer, Pep Guardiola and Jaap Stam.

 

[Jussi]

It always does when Jussi shows up in a thread about Russia.

I didn't even start this discussion.

 

[Jussi]

Did you expect CNN? Sorry they didn't report on CAS desicion. Seems like you are dismissing CAS report as invalid and same for Rodchenkov's new testimonies. Or you are claming that CAS desicion never took place and Sputniknews made it up even though there is a link to the respective document.

No, just that Russian state media's interpretation of it was selective and misleading.

In reaching these conclusions, the Panel wishes to underscore what it has not decided in this appeal. The Panel has not made a ruling on whether and to what extent the alleged doping scheme during the Sochi Games existed and how it operated even though it recognizes that there is significant evidence that it was in place and worked.

You're referring to the case of winter athletes appealing their suspension by the IOC, which I have admitted in other more appropriate threads the IOC went about the wrong way. I'm also not claiming the Russian team at the World Cup was doped in any way, they were just as knackered as the Croatians at the end of the game.

 

[cgf]

I remember that, and I also remember it got ignored when those players were transferred.

People should look up microdosing. If any individual has a good doctor they can't get caught. It's a new era and most everyone is doing something, the difference with Russia is, it seems they have a team/government program, which is always easy to find out about. Too many people have to know about it and not say anything.

While Russians are not the only dopers, there’s a reason why the first joke my russian father made after the match was about how clearly they should’ve pumped more “energy” into the players before ET

 

[koyvoo]

While Russians are not the only dopers, there’s a reason why the first joke my russian father made after the match was about how clearly they should’ve pumped more “energy” into the players before ET

It is funny because I went to the corner store and people there were also commenting on how much fresher the Russians looked, followed with looks that said “if you know what I mean- wink, wink”. But they were likely buoyed by the huge home fan support.

 

[Marcobruin]

Population has little to do with it. It's all about structures. Otherwise China and India would be powerhouses.

China and India aren't soccer nation's.China is a powerhouse in the Olympics. India is cricket and that might be about it and they are a poor country.
Brasil lives for soccer and they lost vs a nation that has less then 20x their population.
Brazil has 5 world cups the most of any nation.imo Brasil losing ve belgiym is very embarrassing.

 

[cgf]

China and India aren't soccer nation's.China is a powerhouse in the Olympics. India is cricket and that might be about it and they are a poor country.
Brasil lives for soccer and they lost vs a nation that has less then 20x their population.
Brazil has 5 world cups the most of any nation.imo Brasil losing ve belgiym is very embarrassing.

Your not a football fan are you? Belgium is in the middle of a golden generation who’s player are all at their peaks

 

[cgf]

It is funny because I went to the corner store and people there were also commenting on how much fresher the Russians looked, followed with looks that said “if you know what I mean- wink, wink”. But they were likely buoyed by the huge home fan support.

Oh no doubt that was the major factor, but like my old man likes to say “any joke that isn’t based in truth is just laughable”...

 

[Marcobruin]

Your not a football fan are you? Belgium is in the middle of a golden generation who’s player are all at their peaks

Belgium has 11 million ppl
Brasil has over 207 m ppl
Brasil lives and breathe soccer . If im.a Brasil fan . What humiliation.
No matter how you break it down or this golden generation stuff. It's an off year for the powerhouses I.e Brasil Germany and Italy (didn't even qualify)
But France will restore order

 

[Eisen]

China and India aren't soccer nation's.China is a powerhouse in the Olympics. India is cricket and that might be about it and they are a poor country.
Brasil lives for soccer and they lost vs a nation that has less then 20x their population.
Brazil has 5 world cups the most of any nation.imo Brasil losing ve belgiym is very embarrassing.

Brazil is not the power it once was. Their last team that was a typical Brazil team was probably in the 80s. I remember when Dunga was criticised for not being artsy enough. And post world cups mean very little too. I wonder which player of the current team has active memories going back to their last win. In any case, it has little to do with the population size of each winner. Uruguay wears a couple of stars "(two or four, take your pick), West Germany won with barely 60m, Russia and the US play a small roll despite being highly populated, Italy has around 60m. It has everything to do with the structures, the chances and if that is about equal, it has to do with coinciding peaks and form of the team. Make no mistake, Belgium loves their footy.