The Athletic Putting the ‘tank’ on trial

[Buffaloed]

Putting the ‘tank’ on trial: How the Sabres’ last six years compare to teams who went through a similar process

Putting the 'tank' on trial: How the Sabres' last six years...

This article is by John Vogl. Those of you who hated the 5 year plan are going to really hate the 8 year plan. Vogl looks at teams that drafted in the top two in back-to-back years. Five went to the finals with 3 winning the Cup; Pittsburgh twice and Quebec/Colorado once.

Simply put, the arrival of two potential stars doesn’t mean immediate success. Based on the previous teams, there is an eight-year window after making the picks. The Sabres are only in the fourth year, giving them another four seasons to build around their top players.

It's a thorough article that examines teams that followed a similar path as the Sabres. It's too soon to judge the tank and the message is to remain patient.

The teams all went through multiple GM's & Coaches. The players interviewed stressed how important it was to find the "right" coach.

Click to read more...

 

[Dingo44]

I enjoyed it.

 

[Bferra13]

If nothing else, good ammo to use against these bandwagon pens fans i live around when they bag on the Sabres.

 

[Aladyyn]

The quote about Bob Johnson is very Krueger-like. That's something, I guess. Overall I was pleasantly surprised by the piece, given the guy behind it.

 

[Gabrielor]

It seemed worth it at the time, but the devil is in the details....

I still think going for mceichel was right, but close to every decision made around that was wrong.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

It seemed worth it at the time, but the devil is in the details....

I still think going for mceichel was right, but close to every decision made around that was wrong.

It doesn't help that Reinhart was really seen as an elite center pick up, and that hasn't quite panned out. He's good, but not what was hoped for.

 

[Gabrielor]

It doesn't help that Reinhart was really seen as an elite center pick up, and that hasn't quite panned out. He's good, but not what was hoped for.

We don’t know though, because the evidence of his time in that position is so limited.

He’s definitely a well-above average winger, bordering on elite. I still like that pick too. The others I now like more from that draft weren’t going 2nd (Larkin, Pastrnak)

 

[Buffaloed]

It's reassuring and depressing at the same time.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

No tank no Eichel... Yeah... pretty sure it was worth it

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

We don’t know though, because the evidence of his time in that position is so limited.

He’s definitely a well-above average winger, bordering on elite. I still like that pick too. The others I now like more from that draft weren’t going 2nd (Larkin, Pastrnak)

I can't fault them for making the pick. It just came in near the lower end of his expected range.

 

[Buffaloed]

No tank no Eichel... Yeah... pretty sure it was worth it

We might have finished a spot higher and won McDavid in the lottery. Or maybe we would have picked Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, or Matt Barzal.

I like Eichel, he's going to be a star, but the Sabres tanked for McDavid. By the time McDavid is done he's going to be in any conversation about the greatest player of all time. Murray was disappointed and angry about the lottery with good reason.

 

[Buff15Sabres]

We might have finished a spot higher and won McDavid in the lottery. Or maybe we would have picked Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, or Matt Barzal.

I like Eichel, he's going to be a star, but the Sabres tanked for McDavid. By the time McDavid is done he's going to be in any conversation about the greatest player of all time. Murray was disappointed and angry about the lottery with good reason.

I never understood this. Did Murray not understand basic probabilities? The best odds we could possibly have of drafting Mcdavid was 20%, and that's if we finished dead last (obviously we did). We tanked for EICHEL, and the best odds of getting Mcdavid.

How can you be disappointed and angry that something with an 80% chance of happening, happened?

Looking at the 2015 draft, imagine if we drafted 4th to pick Marner in the 1st rd and Aho in the 2nd. That's some pure hindsight fantasy, but it could've happened.

 

[vcv]

I enjoyed it.

I'd like to see a contrasting article that looked at teams that had immediate or near immediate success after drafting very high for 2 or more years.

I like that they are giving the coaches a shorter leash than the GM, or at least in the most recent case they are.

 

[Buffaloed]

I never understood this. Did Murray not understand basic probabilities? The best odds we could possibly have of drafting Mcdavid was 20%, and that's if we finished dead last (obviously we did). We tanked for EICHEL, and the best odds of getting Mcdavid.

How can you be disappointed and angry that something with an 80% chance of happening, happened?

Looking at the 2015 draft, imagine if we drafted 4th to pick Marner in the 1st rd and Aho in the 2nd. That's some pure hindsight fantasy, but it could've happened.

Murray was infatuated with McDavid. I think lost touch with reality for a bit.
Hockey’s Next Great One Draws a Crowd
“I watch him too much and I think too much about him. I wish I could help myself.”

 

[Montag DP]

Murray was infatuated with McDavid. I think lost touch with reality for a bit.
Hockey’s Next Great One Draws a Crowd
“I watch him too much and I think too much about him. I wish I could help myself.”

At least he didn't try to slap his peepee.

 

[Moncton man]

Time to beat a dead horse, the O'Reilly trade did the damage, not the tank. Knowing you get one of Eichel or McDavid and a 100% certainty at that, well worth it in my opinion. It's the other damage around it that could have been handled better.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

We might have finished a spot higher and won McDavid in the lottery. Or maybe we would have picked Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, or Matt Barzal.

I like Eichel, he's going to be a star, but the Sabres tanked for McDavid. By the time McDavid is done he's going to be in any conversation about the greatest player of all time. Murray was disappointed and angry about the lottery with good reason.

Eichel has a whole higher tier to his game, not a delusion, he's a slow developer. We can't assume how he is is as good as he'll be. I watch Eichel very closely as you do... Look at MacKinnon, he was average at best for awhile then exploded. Eichel's the same mold.

We have a 100 point player on our hands when he throws it all together, based on observation, intuition, experience, not to sound like a snide dogmatic a**hole. He has so much more potential than he's shown.

Eichel will be significantly better than Marner or Barzal and is a center. He's a slow developing player IMO. We'll laugh in 5 years when we thought he was only a PPG player. His peak is closer to 28. Marner, Barzal, pure skill, peak early.

People will be shocked when he's on a good team routinely putting up 100 points.

Commencing the various "Is Eichel Generational After All?" threads on the main boards. Again not to sound like a douchey know-it-all, but he has a whole other tier that he shows glimpses of which he'll reach. I have no doubt that he'll hit his potential on a good team.

* edit* The lottery is 100% rigged and no way the NHL gifts us McDavid or Eichel if we're 2nd last place. Eichel will be remembered 5-7 years from now as the undisputed second best in his draft class.

 

[EichHart]

The entire process will be worth it once we get a deeper team and a good GM. Eichel is going to be the 2nd best center ever to play for this team and Dahlin will be the best dman to ever play for the Sabres.

 

[jd1970]

If you're an old timer like me, the tank is rough. I knew they would be bad for at least 5 seasons. Some fans thought they were pretending to be bad, and would bounce right back, but they burned it to the ground.
Hopefully this past season's streak was a preview. Dahlin was the unexpected piece.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Time to beat a dead horse, the O'Reilly trade did the damage, not the tank. Knowing you get one of Eichel or McDavid and a 100% certainty at that, well worth it in my opinion. It's the other damage around it that could have been handled better.

Bullshit. Bad coaching selections did the damage. But thats stupid GMing 101, get great players on your roster and let them coached and led by a Baffoon. Both Disco and Phil were terrible.

To illustrate my point: ROR was here and we were dead f***ing last.

 

[Yatzhee]

There is 0 doubt the tank has failed completely. But then, it's not just the tank.
Under the ownership of the Pegula's the Buffalo Sabres have been relegated to a bottom feeding team. An opponent to be viewed as 2 points in the standings for just about every other team.
The fact is, the buck stops with Kim and Terry. Their decisions at the management and coaching level are at the very core of the problem I strongly suspect.
Another off season of trying to right the ship, maybe it happens this year, but given the record of this ownership group, I'm not holding my breathe.

 

[Chainshot]

The issue now is how to build around what they still have from that tear down. They have only 14 players of the 38 who dressed in the final year of the Disco/Murray's time and yet they have backslid. It's the core group or at least viable support to the existing core group that has to expand.

They have to find some value additions and be willing to play players who are playing better not based on who drafted them, or how they were acquired, but by how they perform on the ice.

At this point, they remind me of the 2000's Blue Jackets. Not really a threat, a few good players, but unable to build a big enough collection of talent because they were always bleeding players from the periphery. And mostly drafting in the purgatory 6-10 range, without hitting on stars and unable to attract external help. They are fast approaching being the Florida Panthers of the north.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Tank or no tank the Sabres were finishing at the bottom with any direction they chose to rebuild. The team lacked top end prospects. No one was going to save the Sabres from being a bad team.

That said, the tank accomplished pretty much what it was meant to accomplish. The problem was ownership and management made poor decisions.

 

[Dreakon13]

Time to beat a dead horse, the O'Reilly trade did the damage, not the tank.

C'mon, could people get a little perspective please? Could we stop pretending that this one move is the thing that single handedly destroyed the Buffalo Sabres franchise? I've seen it claimed to be worse than losing the co-caps, I've seen it worse than losing Hasek... now it's done more damage than the entirety of the tank?

I think people have just let these thoughts about the trade and STL's success swirl in their heads for way too damn long.

 

[Member 308457]

What about the steadfast refusal of the Buffalo Sabres to have even one member of their roster to be French Canadian or Russian? French Canadians/players who are from the Q, are among the best hockey players in the world. They have hockey in their blood. They don't even have to think. They are born with skates on and a hockey stick in their hands. And not one -- Jason Pominville and Scandella are probably on the way out -- serviceable French Canadian on our team? They have worked great in Buffalo in the past. And what about the Russians? They are some of the most talented players in the league. I don't even have to start naming them. Not One!

Why do the Sabres insist on loading up on US college players and Swedes?? It's like loading up on mediocrity and soft character. US college players might be an earnest attempt to bring the natives home but they are not known for being great at hockey. Not sure how many Swedes are in the NHL HOF but it can't be that many. Here are the 10 greatest Swedes of all-time...not a great big impressive list: Super Swedes: The 10 Best Swedish Hockey Players of All Time

The Buffalo Sabres have truly lost their way. The "culture" of the organization has caved to favoritism of these two groups.