"Pure Goal Scorer" vs "Sniper"

[Jason MacIsaac]

Good explenation.

Where would some prospects fit like Fehr? Goalscorer? or sniper?

I haven't seen near enough of Fehrs goals but he is a pure goal scorer.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Nash is a pure goal scorer, noway I would call him a sniper. He can score goals from the top of the circle but the majority are from knowing where to be and haveing the hands to finish.

 

[Habsfan 32]

Where would Anderi Kostitsyn fit?

 

[CH Wizard]

Where would Anderi Kostitsyn fit?

That's a tough one.I'd say sniper.He can score by a lot of ways , he has a lot of shooting skills.Like someone else said, pure goal scorers are those who like can go in front of the net without a problem and score a goal (or score a goal on a rebound or whatever) and always have a stick on it.You can't teach goal scoring instinct.Snipers are those who like can predict what the goalie will do and see the holes and can put the puck easily in the top corner or just in between the legs.A sniper can see the 5 holes very well.For a sniper the timing is also very important.He also knows when the goalie will make the move and shoot it in the hole quickly.

 

[The HW]

A sniper requires a set up guy. A pure goal scorer does not.

I like this definition best.

A sniper's best asset is his shot. He finds open ice and can rifle a pass home with uncanny speed and accuracy, like Bondra or Hull.

A pure goal scorer, to me, is someone who can finish in a variety of ways. I'd qualify him as a prolific goal scorer, moreso than being a setup man. I'd suggest Hossa or Hejduk these days, but prime examples are Mogilny, Selanne, Bure.

Lots of guys blur the line.

 

[Habsfan 32]

That's a tough one.I'd say sniper.He can score by a lot of ways , he has a lot of shooting skills.Like someone else said, pure goal scorers are those who like can go in front of the net without a problem and score a goal (or score a goal on a reboud or whatever).You can't teach goal scoring instinct.Snipers are those who like can predict what the goalie will do and see the holes and can put the puck easily in the top corner or just in between the legs.A sniper can see the 5 holes very well.For a sniper the timing is also very important.He also knows when the goalie will make the move and shoot it in the hole quickly.

Thanks man. I also had a hard time figuring out where to place him but I was also saying more of a sniper and my brother was saying pure goal scorer. I guess I was right again.

 

[CH Wizard]

I like this definition best.

A sniper's best asset is his shot. He finds open ice and can rifle a pass home with uncanny speed and accuracy, like Bondra or Hull.

A pure goal scorer, to me, is someone who can finish in a variety of ways. I'd qualify him as a prolific goal scorer, moreso than being a setup man. I'd suggest Hossa or Hejduk these days, but prime examples are Mogilny, Selanne, Bure.

Lots of guys blur the line.

Right on!

Seriously , did Bure need a set up guy? No , I've often seen him play and I think , he's the perfect definition of pure goal scorer.He was using his speed to go in front of the net and score a goal by like a nice backhand and he was also deflecting a lot of pucks in front of the net.You're truly right when you're saying that a pure goal scorer can score by many ways.

That's why I said Kostitsyn is a sniper.He isn't known to go near the goal but he's completing nicely some nice passes.His shot is heavy and he can put the puck in the net by launching lazer beams from everywhere.

Habsfan32...no problem.

 

[ChemiseBleuHonnete]

Where would Anderi Kostitsyn fit?

so far, neither.... He has to score goals first.

 

[pucks1]

WHy the frick is this in the prospects thread?

Uhhh ...

Schremp is a sniper
Crosby is a pure goal scorer

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I think Dino Ciccarelli epitomizes "pure goal scorer"

Mike Bossy was a sniper.

Bossy was both a sniper and a pure goal scorer. Dino was a garbage man (not a bad thing).

 

[signalIInoise]

I'd always thought of 'pure goal scorer' as just color-commentary speak -- in the mold of "all he does is put pucks in the net".

To be honest, I look at it as a backhanded compliment. In my mind it means that this is a player without a complete game -- probably a lot of goals and a lousy plus-minus, ala Daniel Briere (pre-Buffalo).

OTOH, I see a sniper as someone who, like a military sniper, takes a lot of shots from a distance (with at least some degree of success). I think this is a label that has little to do with the player's overall game.

 

[Seph]

I view sniper a little differently than most. To be a real sniper in my mind, you have to be two things. One, as most people already stated, you have to be able to score well from far out (not just in the slot), a good hard shot that finds the seams and the holes. A guy like Ciccarelli while an excellent goal scorer is not a sniper for that reason. But to me, a sniper also has an implication of not going into the high traffic areas, not doing the dirty work. A sniper in the real world is a guy who hides out where no one can see him, gets off just enough shots to do the job, then sneaks out. So, I don't really like including forwards who are 2way or notably physical. So Hull or Bure are perfect examples of a sniper. They let other people do the dirty work and then get off the ideal shot.

Pure goal scorer is easy. These are guys that score goals first and foremost and will do anything to score it. Look at Bossy settling the puck, shooting and scoring all with both his feet in the air for an example of pure goal scoring. They have to think shot first, rather than looking for the pass, and they have to just have that knack for finding the back of the net no matter the situation. This category to me has less restrictions on defensive or physical game in my mind. Because doing the dirty work helps them eventually get the puck to a place that they can get the shot off and hopefully score. Think Bossy and Ciccarelli. Or for more recent examples, Nash and Kovalchuk.

 

[habs_24x]

Purest of pure goal scorer: Mike Bossy

best sniper ever: Brett Hull

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Just to blurr things even more, Bossy and Hull really played similar games in their prime. It was their positioning that set them apart from their peers. Both guys knew where to go to score goals. Both guys had the quickest releases of their era's. Both guys were murder from the slot area. And both had incredible setup men (Trottier and Oates) in their prime.

The difference? I think Hull could score from a little further out and with more power on his shot. Bossy would pay the price way more in front of the net.

But even with that, I'm not sure they don't belong in the same category.

 

[10 ft. pole]

pure goal scorer- Luc Robitaille

sniper- Joe Sakic

 

[Habsfan 32]

Just to blurr things even more, Bossy and Hull really played similar games in their prime. It was their positioning that set them apart from their peers. Both guys knew where to go to score goals. Both guys had the quickest releases of their era's. Both guys were murder from the slot area. And both had incredible setup men (Trottier and Oates) in their prime.

The difference? I think Hull could score from a little further out and with more power on his shot. Bossy would pay the price way more in front of the net.

But even with that, I'm not sure they don't belong in the same category.

IIRC Bossy scored alot of his goals with slappers when entering the offensive zone.

 

[Bruins4Ever]

With sniper, I'd put Glen Murray's name somewhere on there. Hejduk is the best pure sniper in the game today. The best pure goal scorer is definately Ilya Kovalchuk, with an HM for sniper going to Murray, Sakic, Gaborik and goal scorer going to Iginla, Forsberg, and Elias.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

With sniper, I'd put Glen Murray's name somewhere on there. Hejduk is the best pure sniper in the game today. The best pure goal scorer is definately Ilya Kovalchuk, with an HM for sniper going to Murray, Sakic, Gaborik and goal scorer going to Iginla, Forsberg, and Elias.

*cough* Naslund?

 

[Leetchie]

I'd say a lot of guys blur the line because in order to score goals and be a pure goal scorer, you do need to have a pretty good shot. However, the snipers seem to be able to find ridiculous holes in the goaltender; where as the pure goal scorers seem to be in the right place at the right time to beat the goaltender.

"Pure goal scorers" suggest a level of offensive hockey sense to score goals.

"Snipers" suggest a level of skill executing a shot to score goals.

 

[VanIslander]

Clear cases of each, regardless of definitions:

Mike Bossy was a sniper. He could squeeze a puck into the smallest of holes, with unparalleled accuracy.

Pavel Bure was a pure goal scorer whose main ability was putting the puck into the net through all sorts of moves.

I think the terms are mutually exclusive in terms of how they are usually used.

Gretzky was a great goal scorer but not a "pure goal scorer" because he was the ultimate passer too. Messier and Yzerman were good at everything, so neither fits the mold of "pure" goal scorer or sniper.

Many d-men have had a sniper of a shot, so to speak, but we wouldn't say they were snipers.

The same goes for offensive defensemen, defensive defensemen and two-way or complete players. Niedermayer is NOT a defensive defenseman no matter how good he is defensively.

Sakic is not a defensive forward even though he is a forward who is very good defensively.

etc.

 

[DownFromNJ]

Gretzky was a great goal scorer but not a "pure goal scorer" because he was the ultimate passer too.

Why are the two mutually exclusive?

Gretzky is the leading goal scorer in NHL history. He's as good a scorer as it gets.

 

[MePutPuckInNet]

yeah...I'm wondering the same thing. Why can't you be a "pure goal scorer" AND a fantastic passer?

...and..honestly, this thread is interesting - it's weird how vastly different opinions can be about some of the most basic terminology. I wonder if that's what's wrong with the CBA situation. Maybe those dudes should try to agree on their vocabulary definitions before they even attempt to complete an agreement about anything else...just thinkin out loud

 

[Leetchie]

yeah...I'm wondering the same thing. Why can't you be a "pure goal scorer" AND a fantastic passer?

...and..honestly, this thread is interesting - it's weird how vastly different opinions can be about some of the most basic terminology. I wonder if that's what's wrong with the CBA situation. Maybe those dudes should try to agree on their vocabulary definitions before they even attempt to complete an agreement about anything else...just thinkin out loud

I think the problem with being both a pure goal scorer and a fantastic passer is that it's comparing apples to oranges. A pure goal scorer, to me, refers to someone who has one dominant skill -- scoring goals. He's just a scorer, a pure one, with little else to contribute to the team. The passing equivalent to that is a "playmaker". While a playmaker may perhaps be able to score goals (see Forsberg, Lemieux, Jagr, and of course, Gretzky), his primary skill is to set up plays. A playmaker can be a fine goal scorer just as a pure goal scorer can be a fine passer.

Also, I'd like to add that a guy like Mario shouldn't be categorized in either. He's a great sniper, a great goal scorer, as well as a fantastic playmaker -- something that very few players in the history of the NHL have been.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

For my money, whenever a player can do ALL of the above (score goals naturally, play the role of sniper, create offense for his teammates, pass as well as anybody, etc.) he graduates from the sniper/pure goal-scorer debate and reaches "franchise player" status.

That's why I wouldn't name people like Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Lafleur et al in this debate.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Same thing to me.

Ditto.