Confirmed Signing with Link: Puljujarvi signed to a 1 year deal with Kärpät, Liiga

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CBJx614

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Wouldn't say everyone. I sorted wanted PLD as an Oilers fan because of how Draisaitl turned out (a big center with poor skating and elite playmaking skills). This isn't the thread to discuss PLD though. Oilers had Mikhail Sergachev ready to be picked at 4th until JP "fell" into their lap. I thought Matthew Tkachuk (or PLD) would have been the next choice but no.
You most definitely we're in the the minority then. Because literally everyone in the hockey media world thought it was Pulujujarvi or bust in the top 3.


Wow congrats this is truly the best place for this post A+ you are awarded all Internet points

Happy now? Can we go back to talking Puljujarvi and you can go be a dingdong else where?
You easily could've not said anything and I more than likely wouldve never even posted in this thread again. But imo thats going to follow him the rest of his life, especially if he never becomes a nhl player. Him getting passed up at #3 will always be apart of the discussion.
 
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Snowpants

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You easily could've not said anything and I more than likely wouldve never even posted in this thread again.

You are right actually good example of why it is never a good idea to feed trolls

But imo thats going to follow him the rest of his life, especially if he never becomes a nhl player. Him getting passed up at #3 will always be apart of the discussion.

Have you gotten off yet or are you still milking your self over this?
 

BB88

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Based on the projected points from 2017:

If Pulju ends the Liiga season at PPG, based on the projected points (.43 for Liiga) he would have scored 30 points in NHL (82 gp). Which is very close to his 2017-18 season: 20 points in 65 gp = estimated 25 points in 82 gp.


That list means ..... at the end of day.
 

voxel

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Based on the projected points from 2017:

If Pulju ends the Liiga season at PPG, based on the projected points (.43 for Liiga) he would have scored 30 points in NHL (82 gp). Which is very close to his 2017-18 season: 20 points in 65 gp = estimated 25 points in 82 gp.


Which is in line with an impact player. NHLE needs to be considered with age. Full year PPG in the AHL at 20 is considered the line in the sand for an impact forward and that translates to 30-ish NHL points.

Full year PPG in Liga or AHL at 18 is AMAZING. At 25... it's actually poor.

JP needs to be better than PPG IMO. He's right now in the "meh" category along with Tyson Jost and Alex Nylander in the same draft.
 

ijuka

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JP even fumbles his shootout attempt. Classic.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is his defensively ability. He does backcheck and stick check until Yakupov. He could carve out a bottom 6 career much like MPS if he can’t stop fumbling the puck.
What was puzzling is reading over and over again that he was a good stickhandler, when I found that to be a big weakness of his. This all pre-draft.

IMO his profiling was very faulty at the time, and as such the rankings of course shouldn't have been put much weight to either. Professional scouts...


Based on the projected points from 2017:

If Pulju ends the Liiga season at PPG, based on the projected points (.43 for Liiga) he would have scored 30 points in NHL (82 gp). Which is very close to his 2017-18 season: 20 points in 65 gp = estimated 25 points in 82 gp.

This has some qualifiers, though, such as being able to play an NHL game, which Puljujärvi hasn't shown to be able to do. And let's not pretend this now is some magical performance by him. Puustinen, for example, is a year younger than Puljujärvi and has scored 7 points. This kind of scoring is what you might expect out of Arttu Ruotsalainen, an undrafted player who also is 21. To be a significant NHL talent, I'd expect Puljujärvi to score around 1.3+ PPG. It would also require him to fix his issues.
 

voxel

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What was puzzling is reading over and over again that he was a good stickhandler, when I found that to be a big weakness of his. This all pre-draft.

IMO his profiling was very faulty at the time, and as such the rankings of course shouldn't have been put much weight to either. Professional scouts...

Yeah a few scouts talk about his stickhandling and puck control which in the NHL he rarely is able to pull off. It occasionally appears but probably against weaker competition. Scouts talk about his elite passing too which appears once every few NHL games. Draisaitl (and sometimes McDavid) will make those passes 4-6 times a game so Jesse has a long way to go.

https://thehockeywriters.com/jesse-puljujarvi-the-next-ones-2016-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

2016 Draft profile: Jesse Puljujärvi could be a number one pick in a different draft year
 

Esko6

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Can you use the league translation factions in reverse? Kucherov would score about 200 points (I just guesstimated this in my head based on the 0.43 and 60 game season) in a season in the FEL?
 

Ola

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What was puzzling is reading over and over again that he was a good stickhandler, when I found that to be a big weakness of his. This all pre-draft.

IMO his profiling was very faulty at the time, and as such the rankings of course shouldn't have been put much weight to either. Professional scouts...



This has some qualifiers, though, such as being able to play an NHL game, which Puljujärvi hasn't shown to be able to do. And let's not pretend this now is some magical performance by him. Puustinen, for example, is a year younger than Puljujärvi and has scored 7 points. This kind of scoring is what you might expect out of Arttu Ruotsalainen, an undrafted player who also is 21. To be a significant NHL talent, I'd expect Puljujärvi to score around 1.3+ PPG. It would also require him to fix his issues.

First of all, I think EDM did a real number on Pulju’s development. So, I think the “missed” scouting on him prior to the draft get very magnified. In general I think we underrate the impact of the organization has on a prospect after the draft, and well EDM is probably the worst of the worst.

With that said — I definitely agree with you. I had similar issues with Wahlstrom his draft year. This is a kid who got a heck of a shot, but he is a bit heavy-set and takes a long time to get going. He also tend to lose his speed and stand still too much against better opponents. That is so vital in the game today, that you can stay on top of and push the pace, and he is a bit weak in those areas.

But when I described that in posts here I got stomped like never before; ‘have you ever seen him play?’ ‘NOBODY else see this Ola!!??’ and so forth. And when you look around, so many “scouting services” had him as a great skater...

Pulju was still very raw when drafted. He has a great reach, offensive instincts etc. but that coordination wasn’t in place yet.
 
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torniojaws

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Can you use the league translation factions in reverse? Kucherov would score about 200 points (I just guesstimated this in my head based on the 0.43 and 60 game season) in a season in the FEL?
It's just a guess based on some statistics. But I think if Kucherov had a season as good as last season in the league, he would easily reach 200 points with quality line members. But I don't think he could get 200 if he was for example the winger of Kärpät 1st line last season.
 

Just doink

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I know NHL preseason rosters beat European squads 90% of the time.

Do you seriously believe that players in Finland making 200k a year are capable of playing in the KHL or NHL and making millions but they just don't want to?

NHL is different story, but KHL (Russia) is not place to be for everyone. Higher salaries but still lots of players rather play in other top european leagues by own choise.
 

Just doink

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It's just a guess based on some statistics. But I think if Kucherov had a season as good as last season in the league, he would easily reach 200 points with quality line members. But I don't think he could get 200 if he was for example the winger of Kärpät 1st line last season.

Quality line members mean what? With Stamkos and Point they all would get 2-2.5pts/g in Liiga, but with talent around europe and Liiga, Kuch would never hit nowhere near 200 in a season.
 

Ippenator

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Quality line members mean what? With Stamkos and Point they all would get 2-2.5pts/g in Liiga, but with talent around europe and Liiga, Kuch would never hit nowhere near 200 in a season.
I honestly don’t think any of them would necessarily get even 100 points in a season in Liiga, even if they played in the same line for a full 60 game season. Maybe somewhere close to that, but I doubt they would get much over it or could be left even under. Liiga is very definsively oriented and scoring there is extremely difficult for even very skilled players. The skill level in general is of course nothing to compare with the NHL, but the collective defensive play is really very high level (similar as in SHL, where the skill level is higher though), and also the goaltending is pretty high class even compared to NHL level (not as high level, but not an enormous gap).
 
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Scarpy

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I was in that game. Right before that he made a boneheaded move that almost cost Kärpät the game. In the overtime, he seemed to be on a mission to be the hero and tried to skate the puck from behind his own goal across the front of the goal while two opposing players were covering the center of the ice. He only barely saved the situation (and a possible 2 on 0) by pokechecking the puck ahead away from a reaching opponent.
 

Albatros

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Quality line members mean what? With Stamkos and Point they all would get 2-2.5pts/g in Liiga, but with talent around europe and Liiga, Kuch would never hit nowhere near 200 in a season.

Selänne scored 62 points before his 76-goal NHL season. No one has ever reached 100.
 
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Just doink

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I honestly don’t think any of them would necessarily get even 100 points in a season in Liiga, even if they played in the same line for a full 60 game season. Maybe somewhere close to that, but I doubt they would get much over it or could be left even under. Liiga is very definsively oriented and scoring there is extremely difficult for even very skilled players. The skill level in general is of course nothing to compare with the NHL, but the collective defensive play is really very high level (similar as in SHL, where the skill level is higher though), and also the goaltending is pretty high class even compared to NHL level (not as high level, but not an enormous gap).

Selänne scored 62 points before his 76-goal NHL season. No one has ever reached 100.

Yes, but that 2-2.5p/g scenario is only with some NHL all star line (Point-Stamkos-Kuch) and not line like Kuch-Danforth-Elo. Liiga teams are very def orientedly and have good systems so 100pts would be at very much max what one world class star would be capable of.
 
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joestevens29

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Yes, but that 2-2.5p/g scenario is only with some NHL all star line (Point-Stamkos-Kuch) and not line like Kuch-Danforth-Elo. Liiga teams are very def orientedly and have good systems so 100pts would be at very much max what one world class star would be capable of.
At what point would guys get bored and just start coasting?
 

Albatros

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Yes, but that 2-2.5p/g scenario is only with some NHL all star line (Point-Stamkos-Kuch) and not line like Kuch-Danforth-Elo. Liiga teams are very def orientedly and have good systems so 100pts would be at very much max what one world class star would be capable of.

Still I'm not convinced, during the lockouts there have been such lines in Europe and they didn't accomplish anything like that.
 

bucks_oil

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First of all, I think EDM did a real number on Pulju’s development. So, I think the “missed” scouting on him prior to the draft get very magnified. In general I think we underrate the impact of the organization has on a prospect after the draft, and well EDM is probably the worst of the worst.

Pulju was still very raw when drafted. He has a great reach, offensive instincts etc. but that coordination wasn’t in place yet.

Oh come on... how lazy.

Pulju got nearly the same treatment as Draisaitl did, splitting time between the NHL and AHL (WHL in Drai's case). Obviously what works for one, doesn't work for all... but I'm sorry... you also have to put some of that on the player himself.

The biggest "error" in Edmonton's development of Pulju was losing waiver ineligibility, which limited our ability to put him in the AHL where he belongs. But that was 1) an issue more for the team than for the player and 2) wasn't even a factor until this year... and it is clear from THE PLAYER, that he was not going to be onside with playing in the AHL anyway.

Look, I have higher hopes for Pulju than most... but even I can see that this player is immature and not properly supported by his agent and others around him. He's been given ample time in Edmonton to COMPETE for a good roster spot on a crappy roster... heck, he's spent time with THREE different gifted top-three draftee centers, each of whom could be (at worst) a #2 center on most teams in the league.

He's looked wildly inconsistent and confused at times on the ice... and there are rumors that there is a language issue and he refused to take English lessons that the team organized for him.

When does this become the player's issue?

Ten years of Oiler picks:
2007: Gagner 7th - 8 years in Edmonton at 0.60 (or 49 points) pace as a 2C. Hardly a bust.
2008: Eberle 22nd - 7 years in Edmonton at 0.75 (or 61 points) as a 1st line winger. Lady Byng runner up. Star player.
2009: MPS 10th - 3 years in Edmonton. He's a bust, but notably, STL got even less out of him than we did (0.36 vs 0.21)
2010: Hall 1st - 6 seasons in Edmonton, including two finishes in the top-10 scoring. MVP the first year he had supporting cast.
2011: Nuge 1st - 8 years in Edmonton doing heavy lifting against opponents top line. 69 points this past year. Not a prototypical #1 OA, but a great player, heavily underrated due to EDM, and in no ways a bust.
2012: Yakupov 1st - a bust. A bust in Edmonton, a bust in Col, a bust in StL.
2013: Nurse 7th - 24 years old, 41 points, 24 mins a night of physically intimidating play? Not a bust.
2014: Draisaitl 3rd - 50 goals, 105 points... nuff said
2015: McDavid 1st - nuff said
2016: Pulju 4th - he's looking busty right now, but I still have hope once he stops pouting and man's up

10 picks: 1 HOF likely, 2 top 10 in the league, 1 top pairing D, 3 top-six/tweener first line players, 3 busts

If you want to criticize our 2nd round drafting and below, have at it... but it's unfair to say players cannot develop in Edmonton.

Go look at Buffalo, Colorado or any other team with a tonne of high picks over the last decade and you'll find busts in every one.
 

FinLurker

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I'd say these were the biggest team/management/coaching mistakes:
1) Edmonton brought him over atleast one year too soon. One year at leading role at Oulun Kärpät would have teached him more maturity and responsibility just like Carolina did with Sebastian Aho.
2) Management insisted paying him 40 games even when everybody did see that he wasn't ready.
3) Coach didn't let him play at his strengths and gain confidence and tried to change his paying style to more power forward style when JP was still adjusting to different culture.
4) Every mistake led to benching and those led to over thinking and bad decisions.
5) Revolving door of linemates and therefore no chemistry

These mistake are all from the first year. It didn't get any better in years two or three.
 

scud9

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The most dominant player in FEL in recent years was Erik Karlsson during the lock out. He played in the Finnish power house Jokerit for 30 games and scored 34 points. With the great teammates I think Kucherov and McDavid would score in 60 games 90- 100 points.

But that doesn't mean anything when you are talking about Puljujärvi. He is no Kuch or McDavid or McKinnon. Jesse has been doing great. We have to remember that he played the last game in February. He has a point per game, has been solid for defense, is creating a lot in offence. He isn't tackling or being a grinder but he will never be that. He has been the best player in team Kärpät.
 
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voxel

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I'd say these were the biggest team/management/coaching mistakes:
1) Edmonton brought him over atleast one year too soon. One year at leading role at Oulun Kärpät would have teached him more maturity and responsibility just like Carolina did with Sebastian Aho.
2) Management insisted paying him 40 games even when everybody did see that he wasn't ready.
3) Coach didn't let him play at his strengths and gain confidence and tried to change his paying style to more power forward style when JP was still adjusting to different culture.
4) Every mistake led to benching and those led to over thinking and bad decisions.
5) Revolving door of linemates and therefore no chemistry

These mistake are all from the first year. It didn't get any better in years two or three.

Part of it was his fault. The Oilers obviously wanted him to learn the NA game and he and his agent didn't want to be sent down to the AHL - they kept him on the NHL roster for X number of games so he wouldn't bolt back to FEL/Liga. He didn't learn English or blew it off. He even admitted this last year or this offseason.

From the first preseason game it was obvious his puck protection skills were not NHL-ready... it never really improved. Skating and shot strength were always above-average/elite. Defensively because of his skating and reach... he could be a solid checker but that's a poor use of a 4th overall pick.

The Oilers were wrong in putting JP with scrubs like Lucic... but JP himself killed plays with his fumbling. McDavid and Draisaitl would have 20 less points playing with him. It definitely did not help his confidence but his hockey sense isn't elite like the other past Oilers high picks like Draisaitl, Nuge, McDavid,... even Gagner. He should be a decent NHLer though.
 
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