OT: Pujols or Pietrangelo

[GoldenSeal]

The minute Captain Pie lifted the Cup wearing the Note ON BRUINS ICE for chrissake made him immortal. He'll stay in the STL because he wants to. Five years from now he'll be the next VP of the Blues, quote me on that.

 

[joe galiba]

Pujols is one of the best ever
He is in the same company as Ruth, Bonds, Gehrig, Williams, Mantle, Musial, Hornsby
Petro is very, very good but he is not among the best ever
You wouldn't put him on a list with Orr, Harvey, Robinson, Bourque, Shore, Coffey, Lidstrom

 

[BlueDream]

I know we’re all hockey fans here but there’s really no contest. Petro is a great player, maybe a hall of famer, maybe. But Pujols was the best player in his sport for 10 years when he left. Pujols is a first ballot hall of famer while Petro might, one day, get into the Hall. Pujols leaving was a bigger kick in the nards for sure.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm not even a Cardinals baseball fan but the fact that Petro is winning this is pretty funny. Definitely a biased poll that doesn't reflect what most of STL thinks.

Pujols will go down as one of the greatest players of all time. Pietrangelo won't.

 

[Celtic Note]

If the question is: who would hurt ME the most by leaving? Then it’s Pietrangelo, since I care way more about winning the Cup than the World Series.

Who hurts their team more at the time? Probably Pietrangelo, but it is closer than the first question. We saw the Cardinals win without Pujols. The same cannot yet be said for Pietrangelo. That’s not to diminish Pujols’ massive contributions to the Cardinals. He might have been more important during their championship, just not as important the year he left.

If the question is: who had the biggest impact on their team and the league? Pujols is really the only acceptable answer.

 

[Mike Liut]

when comparing the two at their current state of leaving via FA, Petro is the better player and more important to the team. Pujols was in decline.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

I voted for Petro, not because I am bigger hockey fan but solely because I think Petro will agew better. Albert was WAY better in the overall scheme, he's one of the greatest ever to play the game in those 11 years he gave St louis. Petro's game is going to age well. his style will make him very effective for a while yet where Albert slowed down pretty quickly after he left. We clearly got his best years.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

when comparing the two at their current state of leaving via FA, Petro is the better player and more important to the team. Pujols was in decline.

I did not see your post when I wrote mine, but I 100% agree

 

[The Note]

People seem to be answering two different questions. No one would argue Petro is better relative to Pujols. Pujols gave the Cards perhaps the best 10 year stretch any player has had in history. He's a first ballot HOFer and at worst the second greatest player in franchise history behind one of the legends of the sport. Pietrangelo isn't anywhere near that.

However, the question was:

That being said, IF Petro ends up leaving, which one do you think would initially hurt you more, Albert leaving, or Petro leaving?

So it shouldn't surprise anyone that on Blues centered forum Petro is leading. Toss in the fact Pujols was beginning to decline and was never going to be worth that contract, while Petro seems to keep getting better and is -at worst- the second most important player in keeping the Cup window wide open, it all makes a lot of sense.

 

[Veneficus]

I choose Albert mainly because that also started the Matheny era.

 

[DatDude44]

Petro leaving would definitely hurt more in the now, a #1D is more impactful on a game to game basis than a .300/30HR hitter and I personally don't think the Blues are contenders without Petro.

In terms of lasting memory, it'd take a few years to sort out, if we end up with some deep playoff runs in the next few years without Petro, it'd sting even more as he could easily have been the difference between winning and losing. The worst part of Pujols leaving was the first 3 years(he was still good despite missing a good chunk of 2013) where he may have been the difference between those NLCS/WS losses and more championships.

They wouldn't have been able to afford those other impact players tho because alberts contract is insane.

 

[DatDude44]

The minute Captain Pie lifted the Cup wearing the Note ON BRUINS ICE for chrissake made him immortal. He'll stay in the STL because he wants to. Five years from now he'll be the next VP of the Blues, quote me on that.

5? i'd hope he's still playing hockey..... i'll say 8-10

 

[SwivelSchwartz]

I stopped paying attention to baseball for years and years by the time Pujols rose to stardom, but even I recognized from afar his leaving was a huge deal.

Hull leaving and Pronger being traded both left me wrecked and in disbelief. Hull was essentially the reason I got into hockey and Pronger was a force of nature on skates. The Pronger trade still makes me cuss and rant.

I won’t be happy at all about Petro leaving, but in a cap era, with cautionary examples like the contracts of Seabrook and Backes make me understand the push/pull of the issue and would make it a little more tolerable (though I doubt most years of Petro’s contract will be an anchor like those particular contracts). I hated to see Backes leave, but I was glad that very day the Blues did not match it/the term.

If it makes you feel any better... we got a third round pick in 2011 for Eric Brewer and took Binnington. We may never have won the cup if we didn’t trade Pronger
As for the topic, recency bias and the first ever leans towards Pietro, but Pujols was on a completely different level. He was equivalent to Crosby/mcdavid

 

[DoubleK81]

Like most have stated, Pujols was already starting to decline when he left. The contract he got, on an NL team where he can't DH but a couple times a season would have been devastating. That said, I thought he was greedy when he left, but I didn't really care that he was leaving.

Petro, while an outstanding player, an undoubted #1D on any team, wouldn't bother me if he leaves. Outside of him walking for a meager increase in $ I wouldn't be upset in the least. I think if Parayko is given the reigns to the #1 spot, you're going to see a Norris trophy make its home in STL again. I don't think Petro will ever win one regardless of location.

 

[Bluesguru]

Albert had too much of an ego. Cards offered him 10 years at 192M and he turned it down. If he really cared about being a Cardinal, he would of stayed. Petro on the other hand in all likelihood will meet Armstrong half way and work something out, because he will want to be a Blue.

 

[Mike Liut]

Albert had too much of an ego. Cards offered him 10 years at 192M and he turned it down. If he really cared about being a Cardinal, he would of stayed. Petro on the other hand in all likelihood will meet Armstrong half way and work something out, because he will want to be a Blue.

I read it was 10 yr 250 mill and they were glad he didn’t accept.

 

[Mike Liut]

If it makes you feel any better... we got a third round pick in 2011 for Eric Brewer and took Binnington. We may never have won the cup if we didn’t trade Pronger
As for the topic, recency bias and the first ever leans towards Pietro, but Pujols was on a completely different level. He was equivalent to Crosby/mcdavid

Pujols was on a different level in his prime, but not even close when he left. Petro is in his prime now.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Like most have stated, Pujols was already starting to decline when he left. The contract he got, on an NL team where he can't DH but a couple times a season would have been devastating. That said, I thought he was greedy when he left, but I didn't really care that he was leaving.

Petro, while an outstanding player, an undoubted #1D on any team, wouldn't bother me if he leaves. Outside of him walking for a meager increase in $ I wouldn't be upset in the least. I think if Parayko is given the reigns to the #1 spot, you're going to see a Norris trophy make its home in STL again. I don't think Petro will ever win one regardless of location.

I'm a huge Parayko fan... He's not ever going to win a norris. It's just not going to happen because he doesn't have the offense numbers. Petro is a better overall defenseman with much better offensive stats and he doesn't get any love from the voters because of the defensemen that are basically a 3rd winger on the ice

 

[Brian39]

I'm a huge Parayko fan... He's not ever going to win a norris. It's just not going to happen because he doesn't have the offense numbers. Petro is a better overall defenseman with much better offensive stats and he doesn't get any love from the voters because of the defensemen that are basically a 3rd winger on the ice

Yup. Parayko would have to double his offensive output just to get into the top 3 of voting and even then he would lose to a substantially worse defender who outscored him by 15-20 points. Petro was on pace for 60 points this year and was going to lose the Norris to Carlson by a landslide because Carlson was going to finish with 85-90 points. I'd take Petro over Carlson every day of the week but you are spot on about Vezina voting.

In order to get Parayko into the 60 point range, you would have to drastically alter his usage and reduce his defensive role.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I'd take Petro over Carlson every day of the week but you are spot on about Vezina voting.

I don't think I'd take either of them for Vezina voting

It'd be a miracle to see Parayko win a Norris unless there's a year where the voters randomly pick a player who is "due" like Doughty.

Petro could win one if he replicates this season while other top offensive D had a down year like in 17-18 where no D broke 70pts.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

To me Pujols is generational and is the clear choice, however this is a hockey forum, so i expect the vote to be a lot closer than it should be.

 

[Brian39]

I don't think I'd take either of them for Vezina voting

It'd be a miracle to see Parayko win a Norris unless there's a year where the voters randomly pick a player who is "due" like Doughty.

Petro could win one if he replicates this season while other top offensive D had a down year like in 17-18 where no D broke 70pts.

In 2025, Parayko is going to set a league record on blocked shots, blocking more shots than any goalie has saves. In recognition of his stunning achievement, the general managers decide that he did more to prevent goals than any goalie and award him the Vezina. The goaltender's union, led by Ryan Miller (who is somehow still in the league) is furious but ultimately backs down when Berube and Army threaten to not carry a goaltender on the roster and play Parayko 60 minutes a night as a permanent floater.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

In 2025, Parayko is going to set a league record on blocked shots, blocking more shots than any goalie has saves. In recognition of his stunning achievement, the general managers decide that he did more to prevent goals than any goalie and award him the Vezina. The goaltender's union, led by Ryan Miller (who is somehow still in the league) is furious but ultimately backs down when Berube and Army threaten to not carry a goaltender on the roster and play Parayko 60 minutes a night as a permanent floater.

Advanced stats guys would absolutely ogle over those blocks/60 stats

 

[Celtic Note]

In 2025, Parayko is going to set a league record on blocked shots, blocking more shots than any goalie has saves. In recognition of his stunning achievement, the general managers decide that he did more to prevent goals than any goalie and award him the Vezina. The goaltender's union, led by Ryan Miller (who is somehow still in the league) is furious but ultimately backs down when Berube and Army threaten to not carry a goaltender on the roster and play Parayko 60 minutes a night as a permanent floater.

I will buy this. I cannot understand how anyone would not.

 

[TheDizee]

pujols not even close

 

[Mike Liut]

Anaheim regrets signing Pujols. Will the team who signs Petro feel the same way? Doubtful.