GDT: Puck pursuit. Game 9 Sharks @ Ducks 7 pm. Balcers in Sasha out

[Dicdonya]

To me, it’s pretty clear that Jumbo left because he didn’t think this team could compete for a cup. I don’t think there’s more to it than that.

Well clearly, but the question is why?

Why did Thornton know to jump ship now, after being so loyal for so long, at the same time our GM was blowing smoke about this team still being good and just needing a bit of a retool. Of course he left because he did not think this team could compete but what about this team made him think(and so far be right) that they wont compete?

Does he know the locker room is bad?
Does he not have faith in DW?
Does he not have faith in Boughner?
Some mixture of all the above?

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Well clearly, but the question is why?

Why did Thornton know to jump ship now, after being so loyal for so long, at the same time our GM was blowing smoke about this team still being good and just needing a bit of a retool. Of course he left because he did not think this team could compete but what about this team made him think(and so far be right) that they wont compete?

Does he know the locker room is bad?
Does he not have faith in DW?
Does he not have faith in Boughner?
Some mixture of all the above?

This is the first year in a long time that I don’t think we have any chance of lifting the cup. So, it’s not much of a stretch for me to think Jumbo feels the same. I don’t think we will ever know Jumbos exact thinking.

 

[Dicdonya]

This is the first year in a long time that I don’t think we have any chance of lifting the cup. So, it’s not much of a stretch for me to think Jumbo feels the same. I don’t think we will ever know Jumbos exact thinking.

Yeah would imagine we will never know either, but to me it is still a red flag that Thornton was more aware of the state of this team, and jumped ship, than our GM who kept blowing smoke up our butts about this team being great, and just had a fluke down year. Then proceeding to act like that during the offseason by only getting a tweener forward and a shaky goalie.

That is what the red flag is to me about Thornton leaving.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yeah would imagine we will never know either, but to me it is still a red flag that Thornton was more aware of the state of this team, and jumped ship, than our GM who kept blowing smoke up our butts about this team being great, and just had a fluke down year. Then proceeding to act like that during the offseason by only getting a tweener forward and a shaky goalie.

That is what the red flag is to me about Thornton leaving.

I honestly don't know what DW can 'say' about the current situation. It is his doing and he just gave a big contract to Karlsson. Can he really come out and say that we need to rebuild? Can he realistically admit to his owner that this team needs a rebuild?

Not defending DW at all because at the end of the day the GM will get credit for the ups and downs of a team. But all the players see the writing on the wall. This team is just not that good. They are not even playing like they believe they can win.

 

[Dicdonya]

I honestly don't know what DW can 'say' about the current situation. It is his doing and he just gave a big contract to Karlsson. Can he really come out and say that we need to rebuild? Can he realistically admit to his owner that this team needs a rebuild?

Not defending DW at all because at the end of the day the GM will get credit for the ups and downs of a team. But all the players see the writing on the wall. This team is just not that good. They are not even playing like they believe they can win.

That is a good question. I have no idea his relationship with Plattner, or what kind of heat he has under him at this point.

However he did not necessarily need to rebuild, even if I want us to, but if he privately knew this team did not merely underperform last year, you would think he would have done more in the offseason. Its what he said, and then how he acted that make me think he honestly believed what he said, and was not just trying to be PC about the state of the team.

Now maybe he had no better option, I dont know for sure. However I can only base my assumptions on the little info I have as a fan, and to me it does not look promising.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Not great? 3 of those wins came in a gimmick. It's concerning this team has only beat 1 team playing the game.

It is what it is. I said they’d be 1-5-3 in the old days, but these ain’t the old days.

Simek got fined 5k for apparently spearing Henrique last night.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

By the sounds of it from thornton wilson didn't actually try to trade him and if he did made the demands for him to high.

I heard they had a deal in place with Florida but Joe didn’t want to go there.

 

[Levie]

Yeah would imagine we will never know either, but to me it is still a red flag that Thornton was more aware of the state of this team, and jumped ship, than our GM who kept blowing smoke up our butts about this team being great, and just had a fluke down year. Then proceeding to act like that during the offseason by only getting a tweener forward and a shaky goalie.

That is what the red flag is to me about Thornton leaving.

What red flag? It was pretty clear this team was not going to make the playoffs unless something drastic (injuries) happened to just about every team in the Pacific division. I don't know how anyone is surprised that the sharks aren't making the playoffs.

 

[Karl Prime]

With the financial situation of teams and the flat cap Wilson couldn't have moved many pieces of the team out if he wanted to. No team is taking a Kane or Couture or probably even Burns right now. Hopefully if/when he does decide the right move is to sell off then things in the world have gotten better and teams will be willing to take a good but overpriced player to bolster a Cup run.

 

[Dicdonya]

What red flag? It was pretty clear this team was not going to make the playoffs unless something drastic (injuries) happened to just about every team in the Pacific division. I don't know how anyone is surprised that the sharks aren't making the playoffs.

The red flag is what I already explained a few times, that Thornton seems better in tune with the state of this team than the GM is. At least on the surface that is, since our GM did not share the opinion that Thornton must have arrived at in the offseason, that this team was not a playoff/cup hopeful team.

If you honestly think this team was not playoff capable, you don't get an aging goalie and tweener forward as your only off season moves. I never expected him to rebuild, but if he thought like you and figured this team had no chance, why make those useless moves? Either do nothing, let the team falter, trade guys at the deadline and then hope for a good draft, or go out there and actually move pieces from last years god awful team, for players you hope will do better.

 

[Levie]

The red flag is what I already explained a few times, that Thornton seems better in tune with the state of this team than the GM is. At least on the surface that is, since our GM did not share the opinion that Thornton must have arrived at in the offseason, that this team was not a playoff/cup hopeful team.

If you honestly think this team was not playoff capable, you don't get an aging goalie and tweener forward as your only off season moves. I never expected him to rebuild, but if he thought like you and figured this team had no chance, why make those useless moves? Either do nothing, let the team falter, trade guys at the deadline and then hope for a good draft, or go out there and actually move pieces from last years god awful team, for players you hope will do better.

Donato was a great pickup, even for a bad team to get. He is cheap and produces at a higher value than he's paid. Dubnyk was brought in because they needed a backup. I would be shocked if DW actually thought this team was a playoff contender this year.

 

[Lebanezer]

The red flag is what I already explained a few times, that Thornton seems better in tune with the state of this team than the GM is. At least on the surface that is, since our GM did not share the opinion that Thornton must have arrived at in the offseason, that this team was not a playoff/cup hopeful team.

If you honestly think this team was not playoff capable, you don't get an aging goalie and tweener forward as your only off season moves. I never expected him to rebuild, but if he thought like you and figured this team had no chance, why make those useless moves? Either do nothing, let the team falter, trade guys at the deadline and then hope for a good draft, or go out there and actually move pieces from last years god awful team, for players you hope will do better.

The current Sharks culture is a direct byproduct of Joe Thornton’s tenure and leadership. Every single core player on the Sharks cut their teeth in the league with Joe as one of the best players and a team leader. Joe would know about the mess they’re in better than anyone since he helped create the situation. The fact that he chose to walk is much more about him getting a chance to win than the state of the Sharks though. If they had been decent last year and made the playoffs he wouldn’t have left.

Regarding trading for Donato and Dubnyk, both those moves are looking towards the future. Donato has the potential to be a top 6 forward for a long time after this year. Jones is terrible and they needed real cheap insurance for him. Plus, trading for a goalie who’s been as bad or worse than Jones creates a real time experiment to see if it’s the team or if it’s Jones. Dubnyk significantly outperforming Jones makes a decision regarding Jones’ future that much easier. Aaron Dell wasn’t a good enough comparison I guess. If the disparity in numbers continues between Dubnyk and Jones I can’t see Jones playing another game as a Shark after this year.

 

[Sysreq]

The current Sharks culture is a direct byproduct of Joe Thornton’s tenure and leadership. Every single core player on the Sharks cut their teeth in the league with Joe as one of the best players and a team leader. Joe would know about the mess they’re in better than anyone since he helped create the situation. The fact that he chose to walk is much more about him getting a chance to win than the state of the Sharks though. If they had been decent last year and made the playoffs he wouldn’t have left.

Regarding trading for Donato and Dubnyk, both those moves are looking towards the future. Donato has the potential to be a top 6 forward for a long time after this year. Jones is terrible and they needed real cheap insurance for him. Plus, trading for a goalie who’s been as bad or worse than Jones creates a real time experiment to see if it’s the team or if it’s Jones. Dubnyk significantly outperforming Jones makes a decision regarding Jones’ future that much easier. Aaron Dell wasn’t a good enough comparison I guess. If the disparity in numbers continues between Dubnyk and Jones I can’t see Jones playing another game as a Shark after this year.

I was just thinking about the Dubnyk/Jones thing last night. Really telling that Dubnyk has managed to come in and perform as well as he has. He is clearly the better goalie right now. I don’t think he is a game breaking talent or anything, but he is putting up reasonable numbers. Aaron Dell played about where you would expect him to. Jones is just not good enough.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

The cost for Dubnyk was a 5th with a 7th back. If he keeps playing like this he can be sold at the deadline for a more. Donato is playing well as a middle 6 winger and could be sold for more than a 3rd we used to get him.

DW bought low on both these guys. He got the team some help and gave these players opportunity. My guess is he sells Dubnyk for something like a 2nd at the deadline. So, he gets a slight upgrade at the draft and Donato for free.

 

[seroes]

The cost for Dubnyk was a 5th with a 7th back. If he keeps playing like this he can be sold at the deadline for a more. Donato is playing well as a middle 6 winger and could be sold for more than a 3rd we used to get him.

DW bought low on both these guys. He got the team some help and gave these players opportunity. My guess is he sells Dubnyk for something like a 2nd at the deadline. So, he gets a slight upgrade at the draft and Donato for free.

Given how we are playing overall I would for Doug to call up Vegas and see if we can can trade dubnyk for fleury and their 1st.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I was just thinking about the Dubnyk/Jones thing last night. Really telling that Dubnyk has managed to come in and perform as well as he has. He is clearly the better goalie right now. I don’t think he is a game breaking talent or anything, but he is putting up reasonable numbers. Aaron Dell played about where you would expect him to. Jones is just not good enough.

Yes but even with him performing better statistically compared to Jones, they've only won with Jones in net. So if it's about experimenting whether it's goaltending or whether it's the team, 10 games thus far has shown it's still mostly the team. They can't win with good goaltending with Dubnyk. In Jones' four wins, three of them involved the team putting up at least three goals to win and the 4th the team put in its best defensive performance of the season.

 

[67 others]

The current Sharks culture is a direct byproduct of Joe Thornton’s tenure and leadership. Every single core player on the Sharks cut their teeth in the league with Joe as one of the best players and a team leader. Joe would know about the mess they’re in better than anyone since he helped create the situation. The fact that he chose to walk is much more about him getting a chance to win than the state of the Sharks though. If they had been decent last year and made the playoffs he wouldn’t have left.

Regarding trading for Donato and Dubnyk, both those moves are looking towards the future. Donato has the potential to be a top 6 forward for a long time after this year. Jones is terrible and they needed real cheap insurance for him. Plus, trading for a goalie who’s been as bad or worse than Jones creates a real time experiment to see if it’s the team or if it’s Jones. Dubnyk significantly outperforming Jones makes a decision regarding Jones’ future that much easier. Aaron Dell wasn’t a good enough comparison I guess. If the disparity in numbers continues between Dubnyk and Jones I can’t see Jones playing another game as a Shark after this year.

Not really. Joe was marginalized for the last few years and injured quite a bit.
Why do i get such bad body language between some teammates and Cooter?

 

[Jargon]

Not really. Joe was marginalized for the last few years and injured quite a bit.
Why do i get such bad body language between some teammates and Cooter?

It does feel like something is off with the culture and it happened after Couture became captain. Lots of other things happened too (losing Pavs seems to have been a huge hit) but Couture certainly hasn’t seemed to have helped the situation.

 

[Kegsey]

Well clearly, but the question is why?

Why did Thornton know to jump ship now, after being so loyal for so long, at the same time our GM was blowing smoke about this team still being good and just needing a bit of a retool. Of course he left because he did not think this team could compete but what about this team made him think(and so far be right) that they wont compete?

Does he know the locker room is bad?
Does he not have faith in DW?
Does he not have faith in Boughner?
Some mixture of all the above?

He’s 40 and has no cup, simple as that.

 

[hohosaregood]

He’s 40 and has no cup, simple as that.

Sure but it still leads to the obvious question of why does Thornton think we won't be competitive despite our GM insisting we are.

 

[landshark]

Sure but it still leads to the obvious question of why does Thornton think we won't be competitive despite our GM insisting we are.

GM blowing smoke to protect his job. Thornton wants a cup and knows he's not going to get a shot this year w/ the Sharks.

 

[NWSharkie]

Sure but it still leads to the obvious question of why does Thornton think we won't be competitive despite our GM insisting we are.

Probably 28/31 GMs insist they're "competitive," regardless of the reality. Admitting to a rebuild/retool is expensive in terms of lost ticket/merch/advertising sales, and that's especially true for a smaller-market team without hefty revenue streams to tide them over.

Maybe DW thought he could make minor tweaks like in 2014, and combined with vets playing to their potential, we'd be back to a bubble team. Maybe this is the "prove it" year for those vets before he bites the bullet and sells for the future. But he hasn't made moves to build a playoff team this year. He gave Jumbo the same opportunity for an out after 2014, and maybe then they both thought they had the pieces to put back together in ways they didn't this time around. There's always going to be a difference in how the team looks from in the room vs. in the stands, and I think it's a bit of a leap to get to "Jumbo knows the team better than DW" or "DW is in la-la land/denial about how bad this team is." The likelier explanation is that DW saw an opportunity for an early start to a rebuild between a COVID-shortened season with no fans and the Seattle expansion draft, and Jumbo knows he can't wait three years to win.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yes but even with him performing better statistically compared to Jones, they've only won with Jones in net. So if it's about experimenting whether it's goaltending or whether it's the team, 10 games thus far has shown it's still mostly the team. They can't win with good goaltending with Dubnyk. In Jones' four wins, three of them involved the team putting up at least three goals to win and the 4th the team put in its best defensive performance of the season.

There is no doubt that the team sucks but I am unsure as to what exactly you are saying here? Team scores more goals with Jones in net? I mean, its hard to argue against those numbers but despite that hasn't Dubnyk still been the better goalie.

 

[NWSharkie]

There is no doubt that the team sucks but I am unsure as to what exactly you are saying here? Team scores more goals with Jones in net? I mean, its hard to argue against those numbers but despite that hasn't Dubnyk still been the better goalie.

Sounds like you guys are asking two different questions. you're asking are we better off with Jones or "Not Jones," and PF is looking at whether our problem is "goaltending" or "not goaltending." From the way the team is playing now, we're better off with Dubnyk than Jones, but the bigger problem is with the other 18 skaters on any given night.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Sounds like you guys are asking two different questions. you're asking are we better off with Jones or "Not Jones," and PF is looking at whether our problem is "goaltending" or "not goaltending." From the way the team is playing now, we're better off with Dubnyk than Jones, but the bigger problem is with the other 18 skaters on any given night.

Right, I was just confused with what PF meant. I got both his points. i.e team has more wins with Jones and that skaters are a big problem. However, to me, despite that I would rather have Dubnyk in goal. If the skaters play consistently, it would give us a better chance to win with Dubnyk in net.