Value of: "Puck moving D man" to the Habs

[Beezeral]

I would say Dumba, but you don’t have Eichel or Barkov

You aren’t getting either player for Dumba.

 

[Richard88]

With the recent slump, and somewhat of a dry spell in the scoring dept for the Habs, some fans have been scapegoating the likes of Edmundson, Chiarot, etc. as acquisitions that didn't fit the ultimate needs of the Habs as a new age, modern, mobile d man.

The Habs appear set up front, but could use a #3 D man (my opinion) that is a younger Petry in terms of mobility and productivity.

So, what options are out there and what are some viable trade scenarios?

It's unlikely that teams would want to trade their established RHD's given how valuable they are. But perhaps you can get a younger up and coming RHD from a contender instead, like Conor Timmins. Avs would certainly be interested in Danault.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

It's unlikely that teams would want to trade their established RHD's given how valuable they are. But perhaps you can get a younger up and coming RHD from a contender instead, like Conor Timmins. Avs would certainly be interested in Danault.

You mean the Avs dman with the lowest +- in the team, who has yet to score a single point in the NHL in his D+4 year? I knew Danault had bad value, but I rather keep him if it's to sell him that low. Timmins doesn't check any boxes for us.

 

[Richard88]

You mean the Avs dman with the lowest +- in the team, who has yet to score a single point in the NHL in his D+4 year? I knew Danault had bad value, but I rather keep him if it's to sell him that low. Timmins doesn't check any boxes for us.

D+4 is a bit misleading. He missed 18 months of development and is considered a rookie still. He's flashed some skill and his IQ has been on display, but he's also making typical rookie mistakes. He's too smart a player to not come around. Fair enough if Montreal want to aim higher though.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

D+4 is a bit misleading. He missed 18 months of development and is considered a rookie still. He's flashed some skill and his IQ has been on display, but he's also making typical rookie mistakes. He's too smart a player to not come around. Fair enough if Montreal want to aim higher though.

Sorry for being kind of an ass. Realistically I know we won't have much more from a struggling pending UFA tough so I think Montreal consider the offer but won't pull the trigger until TDL. Maybe with a little sweetener like a 2nd or a 3rd it might go through.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

DELETE

 

[Richard88]

Sorry for being kind of an ass. Realistically I know we won't have much more from a struggling pending UFA tough so I think Montreal consider the offer but won't pull the trigger until TDL. Maybe with a little sweetener like a 2nd or a 3rd it might go through.

I would also expect an add from Colorado. Wouldn't be opposed to a 1st+Timmins, especially if Danault is willing to resign in Colorado.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I would also expect an add from Colorado. Wouldn't be opposed to a 1st+Timmins, especially if Danault is willing to resign in Colorado.

I would actually do 1st+Timmins for Danault and I think he would thrive in Colorado. The guy is still a solid defensive 3C who will produce around 40-45 points a season.

 

[Richard88]

I would actually do 1st+Timmins for Danault and I think he would thrive in Colorado. The guy is still a solid defensive 3C who will produce around 40-45 points a season.

Danault is exactly what Colorado need. A playdriving middle 6 C with great defense.

 

[TBF1972]

Tampa’s 2nd? We can retain some salary.

Mtl probably would prefer to send Byron the other way. But the additional year of term would get charged by the Devils. Tampa 2nd wouldn't be enough.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I think this is probably the best fit. I was thinking about Butcher when typing the OP but wanted to see what folks thought.

What would a trade look like that meets NJD's needs for the Habs to get Butcher?

Armia + Mete for Butcher could work for both teams.

I think Armia could be useful for NJ as they desperately need help on the penalty kill. Mete is a throw in that essentially replaces Butcher as the 7th dman for NJ.

Cap hit in the trade is about the same.

 

[Pierre Lebrun]

What would DET fans want for Christian Djoos? Seems like he could be had relatively cheap and has some upside. RFA with contract up this year. 26 y/o.

Per sportsforecaster/hockey news:

SCOUTING REPORT

Has solid puck-moving qualities from the back end. Is also fairly productive offensively and can be an asset with the man advantage. Is very smooth and quite mobile. Lacks optimum size for the blueline position at the National Hockey League level, so he needs to add significant bulk and strength in order to maximize output.
Long Range Potential:	Solid puck-moving defenseman with some upside.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[bernmeister]

You mean the Avs dman with the lowest +- in the team, who has yet to score a single point in the NHL in his D+4 year? I knew Danault had bad value, but I rather keep him if it's to sell him that low. Timmins doesn't check any boxes for us.

Quoted for truth.

Unless the trade partner makes a bad move, you either get a talented but flawed known commodity, or a reduced future, with best case scenario you hope for a conditional add, which has extra conditional future(s) awarded if Danault signs/signs at a reasonable # with team he is traded to.

 

[JoemAvs]

Quoted for truth.

Unless the trade partner makes a bad move, you either get a talented but flawed known commodity, or a reduced future, with best case scenario you hope for a conditional add, which has extra conditional future(s) awarded if Danault signs/signs at a reasonable # with team he is traded to.

The issue here is that DeAngelo has negative value while Danault still very much has positive value as a deadline rental.
A 1st is not out of the realm of possibility if he ends up the top center in the market even though I have a hard time seeing anyone give it up considering that he wouldn't even be eligible to play for 2 weeks after the deadline due to COVID restrictions and because everyone knows that his demands for an extension are completely unreasonable.

Avs fans have a very unhealthy obsession with him so you are getting ridiculous overpay offers for him on here but I highly doubt Sakic is as stupid.
We can't afford his next contract at all (not to mention that he won't be close to worth the kind of money he is looking for) and shouldn't give up even a 1st for him as a pure rental IMO even though I can see Bergevin getting that from someone if he gets lucky.
The Avs should be looking for old vets with a little bit left in the tank like Eric Staal instead of Danault. We will never be able to pay anyone longterm in that #3 C spot anyways so I always laugh at Avs fans that want to throw big money or significant assets at fixing that hole when in all reality that hole won't be filled longterm at all unless one of our prospects steps up. Otherwise it will probably a revolving door of cupchasing vets / rentals and I am perfectly fine with that.


You probably need to pay something to get rid off DeAngelo at this point while Danault probably gets atleast a 2nd + decent prospect at the deadline so your whole proposal is way off here...

 

[bernmeister]

The issue here is that DeAngelo has negative value while Danault still very much has positive value as a deadline rental.
A 1st is not out of the realm of possibility if he ends up the top center in the market even though I have a hard time seeing anyone give it up considering that he wouldn't even be eligible to play for 2 weeks after the deadline due to COVID restrictions and because everyone knows that his demands for an extension are completely unreasonable.

Avs fans have a very unhealthy obsession with him so you are getting ridiculous overpay offers for him on here but I highly doubt Sakic is as stupid.
We can't afford his next contract at all (not to mention that he won't be close to worth the kind of money he is looking for) and shouldn't give up even a 1st for him as a pure rental IMO even though I can see Bergevin getting that from someone if he gets lucky.
The Avs should be looking for old vets with a little bit left in the tank like Eric Staal instead of Danault. We will never be able to pay anyone longterm in that #3 C spot anyways so I always laugh at Avs fans that want to throw big money or significant assets at fixing that hole when in all reality that hole won't be filled longterm at all unless one of our prospects steps up. Otherwise it will probably a revolving door of cupchasing vets / rentals and I am perfectly fine with that.


You probably need to pay something to get rid off DeAngelo at this point while Danault probably gets atleast a 2nd + decent prospect at the deadline so your whole proposal is way off here...

Agree w/95% of this, except:

* you conclude that ultimately "... shouldn't give up even a 1st for him as a pure rental IMO even though I can see Bergevin getting that from someone if he gets lucky."

no. unless someone is doing somebody a large favor, given we agree on PD demands WAY to expensive and prohibitive.
So you need to recalibrate and admit he does not get that 1st from that one suitor.
That means it is either self rental and he walks or realistic trade as a rental at limited value.


* "probably need to pay something to get rid off DeAngelo at this point".
ADA = low cost buyout.
No need to trade if return is too underwhelming. Value to NY is cap recovered.

the cheap buyout is portable and an insurance policy if he doesn't do a 180 w/new trade partner, which for reasons explained is not a given but plausible.

W/o extension, Danault gets not at least but either a late 2nd OR a prospect
that's more than Deangelo I agree.
but it is ballpark close enuf

also the possible reward on Deangelo if he is productive model citizen for only 1.5 seasons is likely >> than a late 2nd or prospect

props and thanks for extended effort on constructive feedback

 

[bert]

Mike Reilly is available.

 

[bert]

I would actually do 1st+Timmins for Danault and I think he would thrive in Colorado. The guy is still a solid defensive 3C who will produce around 40-45 points a season.

Im sure you would Colorado laughs at that offer. He doesnt even have a goal and is a UFA to be.

 

[Peterpuck7810]

Cane's may wanna move Hamilton... What's the Canadians offer??

 

[JoemAvs]

Agree w/95% of this, except:

* you conclude that ultimately "... shouldn't give up even a 1st for him as a pure rental IMO even though I can see Bergevin getting that from someone if he gets lucky."

no. unless someone is doing somebody a large favor, given we agree on PD demands WAY to expensive and prohibitive.
So you need to recalibrate and admit he does not get that 1st from that one suitor.
That means it is either self rental and he walks or realistic trade as a rental at limited value.


* "probably need to pay something to get rid off DeAngelo at this point".
ADA = low cost buyout.
No need to trade if return is too underwhelming. Value to NY is cap recovered.

the cheap buyout is portable and an insurance policy if he doesn't do a 180 w/new trade partner, which for reasons explained is not a given but plausible.

W/o extension, Danault gets not at least but either a late 2nd OR a prospect
that's more than Deangelo I agree.
but it is ballpark close enuf

also the possible reward on Deangelo if he is productive model citizen for only 1.5 seasons is likely >> than a late 2nd or prospect

props and thanks for extended effort on constructive feedback

I also said that Danault unless the Covid cross border situation completely tanks the trade market will pretty certainly get atleast a 2nd + prospect. I wouldn't rule out a 1st considering what we have seen on deadline days for top end #3 Cs (just look at what Pageau got last year) but we will see.

Nobody is talking DeAngelo for free right now and this is certainly headed to a buyout in the summer IMO.

Enormous gap between a guy a team will very likely be forced to be bought out in the summer vs minimum a 2nd+ prospect wouldn't you agree?
Don't think you can explain that away at all.

Teams might gamble on DeAngelo but it will be after he gets bought out and at a <1m salary and not now.
You can't just assume the best case scenario for DeAngelo (flourishing with a new team without incidents) to justify horrible overpayment for him currently.
He has negative value right now hence nobody will trade an asset with significant positive value for him...

What you are looking at are bad contract swaps or buyout in the case of DeAngelo with buyout more likely due to the rather cheap cost...

 

[bernmeister]

I also said that Danault unless the Covid cross border situation completely tanks the trade market will pretty certainly get atleast a 2nd + prospect. I wouldn't rule out a 1st considering what we have seen on deadline days for top end #3 Cs (just look at what Pageau got last year) but we will see.

Nobody is talking DeAngelo for free right now and this is certainly headed to a buyout in the summer IMO.

Enormous gap between a guy a team will very likely be forced to be bought out in the summer vs minimum a 2nd+ prospect wouldn't you agree?
Don't think you can explain that away at all.

Teams might gamble on DeAngelo but it will be after he gets bought out and at a <1m salary and not now.
You can't just assume the best case scenario for DeAngelo (flourishing with a new team without incidents) to justify horrible overpayment for him currently.
He has negative value right now hence nobody will trade an asset with significant positive value for him...

What you are looking at are bad contract swaps or buyout in the case of DeAngelo with buyout more likely due to the rather cheap cost...

like this overall too much to quibble where we dif!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This is interesting, but given EDM scratching for RNH $ , how likely is it Danault is extended?
If those dots not connected, the value of PD is much less which impacts package.

RNH is basically a winger at this point. Danault is a full time center with a great faceoff winning percentage. He may get a better contract than RNH.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

D+4 is a bit misleading. He missed 18 months of development and is considered a rookie still. He's flashed some skill and his IQ has been on display, but he's also making typical rookie mistakes. He's too smart a player to not come around. Fair enough if Montreal want to aim higher though.

Habs have numerous promising prospect dmen in the pipe that are close to NhL ready. They wouldn’t be interested in Timmins. I don't see top-4 dman potential in Timmins. I see a solid bottom pairing dman if healthy. Like a Cale Fleury type. Also, not impressed with Timmins' skating.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I could be nasty here but I won't, at least no comeuppance just yet.

IF you are actually gonna extend Danault then obv it's a nevermind.

But all signs at this juncture point to Danault turning down anything less than top dollar and signif term.
BE HONEST
Are you going there?
If no, he walks!

So if the expectation is PD is not extended, it then really becomes a ? of what someone pays for him at reduced value of a rental, b'c they see that too, vs accepting PD as a self rental now and then he walks.

Deangelo this season and next with a cheap pull the plug [and recover his cap] if you have to
vs.
PD same $ this season and then ..... lost asset.

Or, if you think you would get better than Deangelo as a rental, what would that be?

Deangelo is negative value. If Bergevin lost his mind and wanted ADA he would ask NYR to retain AND send us a pick fir ridding you of that headache.

Meanwhile, if the Habs wanted to trade Danault they would easily get a 1st from a contender.

so why would we do something as idiotic as trade a 1st round pick for a locker room cancer who was waived and persona non grata? Why trade value for negative value and a headache?

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Mtl probably would prefer to send Byron the other way. But the additional year of term would get charged by the Devils. Tampa 2nd wouldn't be enough.

I’m sure they would. We have no interest in Byron. If he has to be sent back, it kills the deal.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What would DET fans want for Christian Djoos? Seems like he could be had relatively cheap and has some upside. RFA with contract up this year. 26 y/o.

Per sportsforecaster/hockey news:

SCOUTING REPORT

Has solid puck-moving qualities from the back end. Is also fairly productive offensively and can be an asset with the man advantage. Is very smooth and quite mobile. Lacks optimum size for the blueline position at the National Hockey League level, so he needs to add significant bulk and strength in order to maximize output.
Long Range Potential:	Solid puck-moving defenseman with some upside.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2 1st round picks.

Psych probably just a 3rd or 4th rounder.