PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE FOR THE PLAYERS-NHLPA, will fans ever forgive them?

[HF2002]

In this thread the PR war is being discussed, and currently the owners are winning that battle. IMO that's mainly just in canada, I don't thin kthat US fans have accurately been polled.

It also makes very good sense that the owner would win the PR battle when talking about Canadian fans, since only 1 of 6 Canadian teams would be considered a big-money team.

I agree with all your above points (except the snoozefest on ice comment), but they don't really relate to the ongoing PR battle.

What I mean is that the public could care less if the players try to point the finger at the owners when it's decided that the season is lost. I guess you could say that the fans side with the owners on this one, but there's still a complete disgust with the fans for the owners as well. They put themselves in this situation. There are no gains to be made in saying that the owners are the ones who cancelled the season. There's no such thing as good PR in all of this. Just "less damaging" PR.

In answering the question that this thread asks, it's not going to be about forgiveness for the players or the owners. That's never going to happen.

Ultimately, once a deal is reached, the issue will revolve around how they will bring the fans back. And this is why I said that there's a huge miscalculation here that the Canadian fan will just come back and buy tickets. There's a colossal uphill battle for them, and what I stated above are the reasons why I think this to be the case.

 

[PecaFan]

There will be no PR hit on the owners when the season is cancelled. The fans are already expecting the season to be cancelled anyways. Most fans aren't even missing the game. In the US, practically no one even knows there is a lockout.

 

[dunwoody_joe]

This is the classic example of how to kill a sport.

Soon fan anger will turn into acceptance and disdain. At that point, there will be no winner. I expect that sometime in January fans will turn ugly and both sides will catch a whiff of the real sentiment and (maybe) realize they have done some serious damage to our sport and their livelihood.

Whatever.

 

[Sammy*]

I'm just as pissed at the owners for not negotiating.

And I am pissed the players wont negotiate.

 

[kenabnrmal]

Now your original post becomes even more clear. Not only are you unable to properly express yourself grammatically but you also failed in your quest to become a hockey player. That certainly explains why you are so hateful and jealous of those who did succeed.

I have been trying to figure out why so many Canadians are supporting the Bettman side of things when I know that many of you despise the fact that an American Basketball man is running "your" game. The only thing I can come up with is what you just illustrated, petty jealousy by those who tried and failed towards those who are successful. Sad, really.....

There are good pro-NHL arguments out there, and plenty of intelligent Canadian hockey fans argue them. However, whenever you see "dammit, I would play the game for peanuts, so should they, they make too much, they're spoiled brats, who are they to blah blah blah", its a good indication of petty jealousy, and it does a disservice to the legitimate pro-NHL arguments.

They make a lot of money, get over it. If you'd play for peanuts, good for you. In a different market environment, so would these players. However, if you'd play for peanuts in this environment, where you're bringing in the sort of revenues that the players bring into this league (debatable I know, I'm speaking in extremely general terms), and you'd STILL play for peanuts, then you're a complete idiot.

The whole debate would be a whole lot cleaner and more interesting if the jealousy and misguided "spoiled brats" garbage was eliminated. Clearly, freedom of speach dictates that all opinions should be heard, but these petty little arguments are pretty baseless and serve nothing.

 

[Orange]

The whole debate would be a whole lot cleaner and more interesting if the jealousy and misguided "spoiled brats" garbage was eliminated. Clearly, freedom of speach dictates that all opinions should be heard, but these petty little arguments are pretty baseless and serve nothing.

We could also do without the belittling of other posters. Don't tell other posters what you think they feel ("Jealousy"). You just don't know and this adds nothing to the debate. When you see someone who's jealous of hockey player's salaries, I see someone that can't identify to players anymore. Two different interpretations stemed by two different intents.

I realy wish mods would crack down on posters speculating on other people's "emotional state" behind their words, it doesn't contribute in any way.

 

[kenabnrmal]

We could also do without the belittling of other posters. Don't tell other posters what you think they feel ("Jealousy"). You just don't know and this adds nothing to the debate. When you see someone who's jealous of hockey player's salaries, I see someone that can't identify to players anymore. Two different interpretations steamed by two different intents.

I realy wish mods would crack down on posters speculating on other people's "emotional state" behind their words, it doesn't contribute in any way.

I belittled no one. Saying someone is "jealous" is hardly a put down. Simply and observation. My interpretation of their words is that it stems from jealousy. Theres nothing stopping you from stating your interpretation, and I don't see why my interpretation should be banned. Its hardly offensive, unless you consider anything that you don't agree with offensive.

EDIT: and before someone claims that I called the previous poster a "complete idiot", I did not. I was referring to a hypothetical individual who would play for peanuts despite the value he would bring to an organization and the opportunity to make much more while playing. As far as I've heard, no posters on here have had that opportunity.

If we're going to start deleting posts based upon "he called me jealous!!! ban him!", then we may as well shut the place down.

 

[Orange]

I belittled no one. Saying someone is "jealous" is hardly a put down. Simply and observation. My interpretation of their words is that it stems from jealousy.

Ok, then by that logic, saying someone is a "spoiled little brat" is hardly a put down. Simply an observation. An interpretation of the player's words that stems from greed.

From my point of view, you did the exact same thing you claim you want to see less of. You didn't make an observation, you interpreted the poster's emotional response. In doing so, you pretty much said : "His opinion doesn't matter, he's just jealous". If that's not belittling someone, what is ?

edit : Just to make it clear, I too want to see less of "players are spoiled brat" comments because it's just not constructive. But by the same logic, I want to see less of "if somebody says : [...] he is jealous", because it's just as inconstructive.

 

[eye]

I think some of you look too deep for the true meaning of a post. There is no jealousy on my part in regards to what players make. I simply said what most players feel when they grow up playing the great game of hockey. If there was no NHLPA, no agents and no CBA most if not all players would agree to play for let's say $100,000 in their first year and they would have been happy. There are hundreds of players around the world that would play their entire NHL career for $100,000 per year and be very happy. So who is spoiled? The answer is obvious to me and to most fans who can't comprehend or relate to players or Bob Goodenow who refuse to agree to a cost certainty system that still guarantees them much more than their value or worth. Much more than most players currently growing up in hockey would need to make them happy in the future. 1.3 million average is more than generous for a sport that has little TV revenue and arenas that are only 2/3's full in many cities. I doubt they will get 1.3 a year from now when sponsors take their money elsewhere and fans refuse to pay for tickets without a generous rollback in price. That is in all places except Toronto and perhaps Detroit.

 

[HF2002]

....and fans refuse to pay for tickets without a generous rollback in price.

If you're hoping for a rollback in ticket prices I think you're going to be very disappointed.

 

[Captain Lou]

Ok, then by that logic, saying someone is a "spoiled little brat" is hardly a put down. Simply an observation. An interpretation of the player's words that stems from greed.

From my point of view, you did the exact same thing you claim you want to see less of. You didn't make an observation, you interpreted the poster's emotional response. In doing so, you pretty much said : "His opinion doesn't matter, he's just jealous". If that's not belittling someone, what is ?

edit : Just to make it clear, I too want to see less of "players are spoiled brat" comments because it's just not constructive. But by the same logic, I want to see less of "if somebody says : [...] he is jealous", because it's just as inconstructive.

First of all, who among us wouldn't be jealous of any professional athelete? These people all play the games we love to WATCH. They get the accolades, they get to hoist the Cup, they also get to do all of this while making a small fortune in the process. It seems to me that any one of us (myself included) would give their left kidney to do what these guys do and get paid like they do. Am I jealous of these guys? Maybe a little. I am 32 years old and still dream about what it would be (or have been) like to score a goal in a game 7, or win the Cup.

So I can certainly understand why anyone would be jealous or even just a little envious of these players. What I don't understand is the amount of vile and filth that is being spewed towards them. These players have given us so many great memories, no matter who your team is. I just don't know how anyone who speaks about the players in this manner could ever root for any of them after this is all done. Because, eventually, this work stoppage will end. No matter how it happens, the best players in the world will be back on the ice, and it would be terribly hypocritical for anyone to root for these players again, after having said some of things I've heard here, other boards, and out in public.

Note that this is not directed at anyone in this thread, and is nothing more than a response to observations. In the end, we all must remember that we are a 'brotherhood' and we are turning on each other, directing our anger at the wrong people...Now that is sad.

 

[bling]

First of all, who among us wouldn't be jealous of any professional athelete? These people all play the games we love to WATCH. They get the accolades, they get to hoist the Cup, they also get to do all of this while making a small fortune in the process. It seems to me that any one of us (myself included) would give their left kidney to do what these guys do and get paid like they do. Am I jealous of these guys? Maybe a little. I am 32 years old and still dream about what it would be (or have been) like to score a goal in a game 7, or win the Cup.

So I can certainly understand why anyone would be jealous or even just a little envious of these players. What I don't understand is the amount of vile and filth that is being spewed towards them. These players have given us so many great memories, no matter who your team is. I just don't know how anyone who speaks about the players in this manner could ever root for any of them after this is all done. Because, eventually, this work stoppage will end. No matter how it happens, the best players in the world will be back on the ice, and it would be terribly hypocritical for anyone to root for these players again, after having said some of things I've heard here, other boards, and out in public.

Note that this is not directed at anyone in this thread, and is nothing more than a response to observations. In the end, we all must remember that we are a 'brotherhood' and we are turning on each other, directing our anger at the wrong people...Now that is sad.

Thank you Ogie, that is what I was trying to say but in a somewhat less kind and gentle manner The same people who say such horrific things about the players will be cheering and screaming for them at some point in the future. My original post, that got me in so much hot water, was a bit of a sarcastic diatribe along these lines.

 

[Captain Lou]

Thank you Ogie, that is what I was trying to say but in a somewhat less kind and gentle manner The same people who say such horrific things about the players will be cheering and screaming for them at some point in the future. My original post, that got me in so much hot water, was a bit of a sarcastic diatribe along these lines.

Just trying to help you out, buddy.

 

[Buya89]

I am really looking forward to the time when semi-literate's, like you, no longer consider themselves hockey fans and leave these boards. If this lockout accomplishes nothing more than a weeding out of the disloyal bandwagonners it wil have all been worth it. Afterall anyone who is so venomous and full of hatred for the players could never in good concience continue to be a hockey fan after such a vile diatribe against them.

Since when is spelling a requirement to be a hockey fan??

 

[bling]

Since when is spelling a requirement to be a hockey fan??

There ya go...reading stuff into my posts. I see no mention of spelling.

 

[Orange]

So I can certainly understand why anyone would be jealous or even just a little envious of these players. What I don't understand is the amount of vile and filth that is being spewed towards them. These players have given us so many great memories, no matter who your team is. I just don't know how anyone who speaks about the players in this manner could ever root for any of them after this is all done. Because, eventually, this work stoppage will end. No matter how it happens, the best players in the world will be back on the ice, and it would be terribly hypocritical for anyone to root for these players again, after having said some of things I've heard here, other boards, and out in public.

You can be a fan of the sport or of a team regardless of the players. You can also have no jealousy towards the players when you love something much more than hockey. I find neither hard to understand at all.

 

[Steve L*]

There ya go...reading stuff into my posts. I see no mention of spelling.

Literate - One who can read and write

I think spelling is a part of being able to write.

 

[Steve L*]

If you're hoping for a rollback in ticket prices I think you're going to be very disappointed.

Quite a few teams have already done it. I bet more than a few more are waiting for the outcome of the CBA before announcing their prices.

 

[Captain Lou]

You can be a fan of the sport or of a team regardless of the players. You can also have no jealousy towards the players when you love something much more than hockey. I find neither hard to understand at all.

I think you can like a sport or a team without liking the players. I dont' think that you can be a so-called "hard-core" fan without that. I was a huge Yankees fan growing up because of players like Dave Winfield and Don Mattingly and Ron Guidry. Continuing in 1996, when they won the World Series with guys like Jeter, Bernie, and Mariano, I LOVED that team; Iwent to alot of games and even some playoff games; it was worth it to me spend my money and go to the games. Now that they have players I hated from teams like A-Rod, Giambi, Clemens, etc..., I no longer feel the connection that I used to and I dont care as much. So, maybe it's just me that feels different. Maybe you can have passion for a team without liking ANY of the players (which is fine). I can't, and I never will. Besides, I know plenty of people who have changed team alliances because a player got traded or left as a free agent. How many Habs fans became Avs fans in 1995? I'll bet you it's more than you think. Better yet, how many Oilers fans became Kings fans in 1988?

Basically, I dont think you can have the passion without the players, but you can have a casual interest.

 

[eye]

The NHLPA take another PR hit today after announcing that the players will get strike pay of $10,000 USD each month starting November 2004. How many of you even make $10,000 a month at your working jobs? No wonder players are out of touch with reality. Is that how Goodenow got the players support at their meeting a couple weeks back? Bob at the meeting "how much do you boys need to keep your mouths shut and give me your total support while we bring the owners and the fans to their knees" will $10,000 a month to do nothing satisfy you guys? :lol

 

[John Flyers Fan]

The NHLPA take another PR hit today after announcing that the players will get strike pay of $10,000 USD each month starting November 2004. How many of you even make $10,000 a month at your working jobs? No wonder players are out of touch with reality. Is that how Goodenow got the players support at their meeting a couple weeks back? Bob at the meeting "how much do you boys need to keep your mouths shut and give me your total support while we bring the owners and the fans to their knees" will $10,000 a month to do nothing satisfy you guys? :lol

That $10 K a month comes from money that they stored for a lockout.

It's the same thing as the NHL Owners $300 million warchest.

 

[tantalum]

That would be the warchest the NHLPA has continually cited as proof the owners have never wanted to negotiate.

 

[Dr Love]

The NHLPA take another PR hit today after announcing that the players will get strike pay of $10,000 USD each month starting November 2004.

Good thing Latrell Sprewell isn't a hockey player.

 

[PecaFan]

Wonderful. It's like the bank scene in It's A Wonderful Life.

"Jaromir, how much do you need to get by?"
"10 million."
"Come on, you know we don't have that much! How much do you need until the NHL bank opens again?"
"10 million."

Interesting math. Every single player is willing to throw millions away over two years, to protect themselves from a cap, which won't affect the majority of them, and has been shown to be ineffective anyways.

Agree to a salary cap, then let the greedy owners shoot themselves in the foot by working around it as they always do.

The NHLPA is stupid if they can't see this.

 

[eye]

Now, back to reality. I was the best at what I did for the company I worked for years ago. I was part of a union and when we went on strike I got a whole $55 a week.