GDT: PS Game 1: Vegas Golden Knights vs Colorado Avalanche | 17/9 | 19:00 MT

cgf

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Byram has plenty to learn in the Dub. I see no reason to rush him to the NHL.

He has plenty to learn, but can he learn what he needs to in the dub? I didn't watch this game, but I'd imagine his struggles came from trying to adapt to the higher pace & skill level than he's used to...and if that's the case, I have to ask whether playing at a level he can already dominate with his eyes closed, is going to help him adapt to that higher pace & skill level that he won't get to face in the dub?

Pity the NCAA's stupid "amateur" rules and the NHL-CHL agreement prevent him from taking an intermediate step this season to a level that would challenge him more without overwhelming him :-/


Really happy for Timmins though, y'all know I didn't love him as a prospect but that doesn't mean I'm not rooting for the kid to become our 2nd best blueliner!
 
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henchman21

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Timmins was really the only player I was happy with. He had a rusty first and you could tell he was a bit tentative, but once he shook that off he got comfortable and started looking a lot better in the 2nd and 3rd. Byram was noticeably off, but I'm willing to give a mulligan. First preseason game for the kid, there had to be some nerves. If he looks this way in ~3 or so more games, then he should absolutely be sent back to the the Dub.

I know a lot has been talked about with Kam's bad luck over the years, but I don't see bad luck, I see terrible situational awareness. He is seemingly always getting blown up.
 

Ivan13

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He has plenty to learn, but can he learn what he needs to in the dub? I didn't watch this game, but I'd imagine his struggles came from trying to adapt to the higher pace & skill level than he's used to...and if that's the case, I have to ask whether playing at a level he can already dominate with his eyes closed, is going to help him adapt to that higher pace & skill level that he won't get to face in the dub?

Pity the NCAA's stupid "amateur" rules and the NHL-CHL agreement prevent him from taking an intermediate step this season to a level that would challenge him more without overwhelming him :-/


Really happy for Timmins though, y'all know I didn't love him as a prospect but that doesn't mean I'm not rooting for the kid to become our 2nd best blueliner!

He can. He didn't outgrow the Dub as many here seem to suggest. I have no idea where from did they get this idea to begin with.
 

Ivan13

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I don't agree. He's to good for that league, he made it his ***** last year.

Perfect example of why the AHL rules are stupid. This player won't learn much in the WHL, but isn't quite ready for full time NHL duty. He's learn much more playing a pro style in the AHL.

Unfortunately I do think he'll end up back in the WHL. Not much else we can do.

Also I want to see him with some better players before I reserve judgement. The best players out there last night were Jost and Timmins. And let's be real that's not much of a supporting cast.

He didn't. I have no idea who started this nonsense that spread like wildfire through this place once we drafted him. People talk about him as if they are experts on the Dub when most haven't seen a game of his. He has plenty to work on, gap control, situational awareness, shot, etc. He is the best blueliner in the Dub, but he did not outgrow the league.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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Timmins was really the only player I was happy with. He had a rusty first and you could tell he was a bit tentative, but once he shook that off he got comfortable and started looking a lot better in the 2nd and 3rd. Byram was noticeably off, but I'm willing to give a mulligan. First preseason game for the kid, there had to be some nerves. If he looks this way in ~3 or so more games, then he should absolutely be sent back to the the Dub.

I know a lot has been talked about with Kam's bad luck over the years, but I don't see bad luck, I see terrible situational awareness. He is seemingly always getting blown up.
Timmins was the only one who kept getting better last night. Byram flashed in the second and then struggled again in the third.

I understand it was not a great roster but there’s a realistic chance two of those defensemen are on the opening night lineup so I wanted to see more.
 
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cgf

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He can. He didn't outgrow the Dub as many here seem to suggest. I have no idea where from did they get this idea to begin with.

For me it's a result of his dominance and the way he dominated down there; doing things that I don't think he'll be able to pull off at the NHL level...primarily wrt his offense; since I don't see as much of his offense translating to the NHL game as you do.

Though he can already beast defensively against his peers, I acknowledge that that is something that he can polish further at that level...albeit not as much as he would at a level that challenged him more, but still an area where I'm not worried about him continuing to progress at that level...whereas offensively, I think a lot of his "development" over the course of another season in the Dub could come in things that he won't be doing/able-to-do much of at the next level; which just isn't an effective use of a prime developmental season.

So it's not that he's entirely outgrown the dub and has absolutely nothing more to gain from that level. Just that I think it's not as much of a challenge for him as I'd like and I have some concerns that he can get away with too much that he won't be able to in the NHL, for it to be the ideal spot for him this season...and if elite talents playing their draft+1 in europe were more accepted, that is something I would be pushing for Byram to do this season.
 
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henchman21

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Timmins guys, time to join me on the bandwagon. This kid is going to be right up alongside Makar leading our Defense.

I've been on it for a while! ;)

I don't think is is out of reach for Timmins to break camp with the team. The Avs are starved for a RD at the moment, and if he continues to shake off the rust and play his game, he'll get a shot.
 

the_fan

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That's what happens when guys graduate into the system and (like you said) your team is young. Last year we had the best drafted prospect in hockey; now he's on the team.

Having Makar (yes, he's still a prospect technically), Byram, Newhook, Timmins, and Kaut as your top prospects isn't bad by any means.
That isnt bad, but I'd say they're little thin on the forwards. Kaut could be a solid NHL player, but I dont really see a top end top 6 talent there, that's why I said Newhook is the only guy in that position. The D is set with Byram, Timmins coming up, and already having Makar and Girard.

Moving forward if all goes well, the Avs should be drafting late in the 1st round because they're projected to be a top team for some years to come.

I am little worried about the forward depth to be honest. I'm just not a big believer in Jost. Outside of big 3 and Kadri, there is just not much high end talent there.

I mean the forward depth Sakic put together with Kadri and Donskoi etc..should be good enough to produce that secondary scoring this team needed, but as far as high end talent goes, like I said, Newhook is it, dont see much after that as far as next in the list of prospects to graduate.
 

cgf

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I've been on it for a while! ;)

I don't think is is out of reach for Timmins to break camp with the team. The Avs are starved for a RD at the moment, and if he continues to shake off the rust and play his game, he'll get a shot.

Let's see how he does when he's not facing ECHLers before we start penciling him into that gaping hole next to Connauton on our 3rd pairing ;)

...but yeah, that third pairing puck mover role is wide f***ing open for him to claim
 
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AllAboutAvs

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Timmins guys, time to join me on the bandwagon. This kid is going to be right up alongside Makar leading our Defense.
I've been on it since his draft year. I am so happy for him that he seems to be back to normal. I am really rooting for him. I still would like him to improve his skating a bit more though especially his first few steps to help him get more separation and get to pucks a little quicker.
 
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cgf

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I've been on it since his draft year. I am so happy for him that he seems to be back to normal. I am really rooting for him. I still would like him to improve his skating a bit more though especially his first few steps to help him get more separation and get to pucks a little quicker.

Yeah, I'm still a little anxious about how well he'll be able to evade NHL forecheckers to avoid getting blown up again. But so far so good :crossfing
 
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henchman21

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Let's see how he does when he's not facing ECHLers before we start pencilling him into that gapping hole next to Connauton on our 3rd pairing ;)

...but yeah, that third pairing puck mover role is wide ****ing open for him to claim

When you look at the roster last night, he was right in the lineup with 3 of his competition and frankly looked better than all 3 including two who are 'above' him in the pecking order. EJ is probably in opening night, so I'll leave a slot for him... even with that you're looking straight at:

Girard-Makar
____-EJ
Z-____

With Barbie, Graves, Byram, Connie, Rosen, and Timmins fighting for the last two spots (Timmins won't get a 7/8 D spot). If Barbie and Graves look like they did last night, against the same ECHLers, going forward, he will easily have them beat. Leaving it a competition between Byram, Connie, Rosen and himself. And that is with EJ and Z both being healthy opening night. Seems wide open for him if he has a good camp. If EJ and Z can't make opening night, he will be a shoe in.
 

cgf

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When you look at the roster last night, he was right in the lineup with 3 of his competition and frankly looked better than all 3 including two who are 'above' him in the pecking order. EJ is probably in opening night, so I'll leave a slot for him... even with that you're looking straight at:

Girard-Makar
____-EJ
Z-____

With Barbie, Graves, Byram, Connie, Rosen, and Timmins fighting for the last two spots (Timmins won't get a 7/8 D spot). If Barbie and Graves look like they did last night, against the same ECHLers, going forward, he will easily have them beat. Leaving it a competition between Byram, Connie, Rosen and himself. And that is with EJ and Z both being healthy opening night. Seems wide open for him if he has a good camp. If EJ and Z can't make opening night, he will be a shoe in.

With our depth Zads is going to have to play his way out of partnering EJ on the 2nd pairing...and I expect Connauton to lock up the 3rd pairing PK-specialist spot until Cole gets back. But yeah that third pairing puck mover spot is wide open and Timmins can certainly claim it for his own; I just wanna see him evade NHL forecheckers effectively without getting wrecked, before I feel comfortable with it.
 
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Richard88

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That isnt bad, but I'd say they're little thin on the forwards. Kaut could be a solid NHL player, but I dont really see a top end top 6 talent there, that's why I said Newhook is the only guy in that position. The D is set with Byram, Timmins coming up, and already having Makar and Girard.

Moving forward if all goes well, the Avs should be drafting late in the 1st round because they're projected to be a top team for some years to come.

I am little worried about the forward depth to be honest. I'm just not a big believer in Jost. Outside of big 3 and Kadri, there is just not much high end talent there.

I mean the forward depth Sakic put together with Kadri and Donskoi etc..should be good enough to produce that secondary scoring this team needed, but as far as high end talent goes, like I said, Newhook is it, dont see much after that as far as next in the list of prospects to graduate.
That's a bit of a glass-half-empty view. The picture is actually quite promising:

First of all, the roster has all the most important, and hardest-to-acquire, pieces already:
  • a great 1st line (Landeskog/Mackinnon/Rantanen
  • 2C (Kadri)
  • good Top 4 D (including a combination of Makar/Girard, Johnson/Byram, Zadorov/Timmins)
  • A solid, if somewhat unproven, goalie
Secondly, Colorado is a desired destination for free agents again, and so the secondary roles can be filled in free agency. We saw that with Donskoi, who in a recent interview said that Colorado was the first choice as an UFA. Though he eventually chose the Rangers, we were also in on Panarin all the way to the the (at least according to Sakic).

Thirdly, given the above two points, the team will be in a position to consolidate it's assets in package deals, which can help mitigate the fact that some prospects might not be "A" prospects. For example, packaging Jost + B prospect + pick is a legitimate possibility to acquire a good player, without losing too much off the roster. Point being, the depth is the system is there to package assets.

Perhaps the biggest challenge now is to be able to consistently develop players that can fill roles in the bottom 6 as ELC's to reduce the need of filling those roles with expensive free agents like Calvert ($2.85m), Bellemare ($1.8m), Wilson ($2.6m), and Nieto ($1.975m). If those bottom 6 roles could instead be filled by Bowers/Kamenev/Kaut/Kovalenko/O'Connor on ELC's going forward the team would have way more wiggle room to add talent to the top end of the roster, in trades or free agency.
 
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Avs_19

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I'm not ready to say that ends Byram's hopes of making the team. He wasn't good but it's only the first game.
 

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I'm fairly confident he will get his nine games. One less-than-stellar preseason contest won't change that.

By all accounts Jost looked like he was on top of things, no?

Jost looked solid. Made some nice plays that Kaut and Greer somehow couldn't even get on target, but he didn't stand out.

Byram definitely looked nervy as hell. I'd like to see him play majority of the pre season especially with better players and see how he looks, because while he did himself no favors neither did his teammates. If he looks like this after his 3/4/5 game than he probably should go straight back though.
 
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