Provorov - what's wrong?

dragonoffrost

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It was sneaky too. I didn’t realize he was getting up there until some way into the season.

Interesting quote from his agent. Maybe he thought Provy was out to lunch too. Otherwise I’d expect something like “werenski is not Ivan Provorov” or something.
Bridge vs long term.. I kept hearing that they were focusing on long term 5-7 years once you start buying UFA years the AAV goes up. Werenski will be a RFA when that deal expires.
 

TheKingPin

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Bridge vs long term.. I kept hearing that they were focusing on long term 5-7 years once you start buying UFA years the AAV goes up. Werenski will be a RFA when that deal expires.
There are advantages to both here. I guy like sanhiem or tk I would love 5 years or more. Provy and what he brings doesn’t translate to dollars as easily. Bridge would prob be fine for him.
 

Rebels57

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I believe there were reports of him talking to each recently but not going full Torts on them.

Yes AV did speak with both and told them "how important it is for them be there for the start of camp" but then went on to say he "wasn't getting involved in their negotiations."
 
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MacDonald4MVP

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There are advantages to both here. I guy like sanhiem or tk I would love 5 years or more. Provy and what he brings doesn’t translate to dollars as easily. Bridge would prob be fine for him.
Honestly 5 years from now our whole team could be completely different. Just think about our 13/14 team. Couts, G and Jake left with Raffl sprinkled in whatever role they have in mind for him, that's it. Tbh having Fletcher at the helm has me worried for what the next 5 years might bring.
 

Magua

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He won't sign for what Werenski received? Awfully definite, though I don't exactly trust Carchidi with nuanced word choice. On what grounds does he deserve more? If he thinks $5 mil is too low for 3 years -- despite his exact comparable signing for that this week, which is what all this waiting around has been about -- lord knows what the dollar amount is for 6 years.

I'm sure Fletcher will cave one way or another, and I'm sure this contract will be less than ideal. Value in the margins has not been his strong suit so far. Maybe if it's a few thousand higher than $5 mil but the last year has a lower qualifying offer than $7 mil.....
 

AdamParrot

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He won't sign for what Werenski received? Awfully definite, though I don't exactly trust Carchidi with nuanced word choice. On what grounds does he deserve more? If he thinks $5 mil is a pittance for 3 years -- despite his exact comparable signing for that this week, which is what all this waiting around has been about -- lord knows what the dollar amount is for 6 years.

I'm sure Fletcher will cave one way or another, and I'm sure this contract will be less than ideal. Value in the margins has not been his strong suit so far.
Better defensively, better overally. I think that peoples are missing that Werenski played with Jones (TOP10 Dman in the league) in Columbus who had so much, much better system than us.

And Werenski was still not so good how peoples are thinking. Yes, Provorov had bad year, but still overally he is better and after their career he has better career.
 

AdamParrot

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And fans, did you know that Provorov was 6th best player (not among only Dmen, but among all players) in exits? And he had bad year by the way.

Provorov can be +10goal Dman every season in at least above average team system.

And by the way, Ghost was 4th best player in last season in exits.

If AV use them in correct way, in good system, Provorov will score at least 25 points in ES I believe.
 

Magua

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Better defensively, better overally. I think that peoples are missing that Werenski played with Jones (TOP10 Dman in the league) in Columbus who had so much, much better system than us.

And Werenski was still not so good how peoples are thinking. Yes, Provorov had bad year, but still overally he is better and after their career he has better career.

Werenski averaged 44 points/82 games in his 3 seasons, and is coming off a 44 point season (although a down year overall) and plays top pair minutes as well. Provorov averaged 32 points and is coming off his own subpar 26 point season. Provorov may indeed be better defensively, but points gets you paid, and their gap isn't so wide overall to make up that difference and then some, especially for a player who deserves little PP time going forward. I'd agree more if he had a history of driving play.

They're essentially the same value player, just skewed different ways in style/usage. It's his agent's job to sell him; it's Fletcher's job to be more objective.
 

AdamParrot

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Werenski averaged 44 points/82 games in his 3 seasons, and is coming off a 44 point season and plays top pair minutes as well. Provorov averaged 32 points and is coming off a very subpar 26 point season. Provorov may indeed be better defensively, but points gets you paid, and their gap isn't so wide overall to make up that difference and then some, especially for a player who deserves little PP time going forward.

They're essentially the same value player, just skewed different ways in style/usage.
We are not in era where you get paid for only points.

I can agree with same value. But still I would be ok when he get more money than Zach.

By the way, did you see this? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EECNCR7XsAAYQGO?format=png&name=900x900

Swap Werenski with Provy and you get from Provy +35pts with top pair minutes, and from Werenski maybe +35points too (because of powerplay) but he would be worse than Provy in defense...
 

Rebels57

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Werenski has certainly been in a more advantageous situation his first 3 seasons, but that doesn't mean he is worth less than Provorov. There is really no sound argument that can be made for Provorov to make more than Werenski on a 3 year deal.
 
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dragonoffrost

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Werenski has certainly been in a more advantageous situation his first 3 seasons, but that doesn't mean he is worth less than Provorov. There is really no sound argument that can be made for Provorov to make more than Werenski on a 3 year deal.

Nope I pay them the same deal for 3 years, when you go to 6 years then the AAV could climb to 7 due to buying some UFA years.
 
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AdamParrot

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2016-2019 (5v5):
ZSR%:
Provorov - 46,45
Werenski - 56,84

It's f***ing HUGE difference!!

CF% QoT:
Provorov - 50,51
Werenski - 49,76
CF% QoC:
Provorov - 50,06
Werenski - 49,86
PDO:
Provorov - 99,47
Werenski - 100,06

Rel xGF%:
Provorov - -1,13
Werenski - -1,4

Rel CF%:
Werenski - 3,18
Provorov - 1,59

P/60
Werenski - 0,94
Provorov - 0,86

Yes, we can to talk about same value NOW. But like I said, Werenski played in much better system than Provorov. I really believe that Provorov under AV will have bounce-back year and will be better Dman than Werenski very easily.

EDIT:
And in exits in last season, where Provy had bad year:
Provy was 6th best in the league. Werenski 51st.

So I really would be OK with 3x5,5-6M per year or 6years X 7M per year for Provy.
 
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