Prospect Info: Prospects and Marlies Thread: Marlies Calder Cup Champions Edition

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Pyromaniac

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May 29, 2012
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Brooks could have made the Marlies a year earlier after having a stellar year in junior. There was nothing in terms of center prospects ahead of him either. But they sent him back and IMO it certainly did not hinder his development.

I think its much more organic than that. He stays if he wins a spot. I also believe there is a level of comfort and influence with SSM which probably makes it a whole lot easier. Can he beat someone ahead of him like a Subban? I think its a tall order.
 

TheGoldenJet

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Apr 2, 2008
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Durzi with the Marlies? I can’t see that going well next year, he will get eaten alive. He needs another year in junior, I don’t care how good his stats were last year.

He has nothing left to learn at the OHL level. Durzi scores at a 101 point pace (per 82 games) as a defenceman, which isn’t something to just hand wave away. Those numbers can’t be ignored.

The best place for Durzi (after a solid summer) will be the Marlies.
 

67Cup

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Sep 16, 2005
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Now that MLSE actually owns the ECHL affiliate, I think we may see the Leafs put into greater effect Dubas’s stated plan to use theECHL team as a first level development program.... a bit like the lower level minors in baseball. We may see prospects assigned to the Growlers rather than retuning to junior as overagers if they can't make the Marlies.
 
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daethfromabove1979

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Jun 20, 2006
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He has nothing left to learn at the OHL level. Durzi scores at a 101 point pace (per 82 games) as a defenceman, which isn’t something to just hand wave away. Those numbers can’t be ignored.

The best place for Durzi (after a solid summer) will be the Marlies.

Nothing left in the OHL? Geez he’s not some superstar who has learned everything, just look at some of the first round defenseman drafted from the CHL recently and there are plenty that have played four seasons there. Shea Theodore, Morrisey, Pulock, Fleury, Nurse for example, Sanheim also played two years after being drafted. If players like these can stay in the CHL and develop then I think Durzi can too. I think rushing him to the AHL would be a big mistake.
 
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TheGoldenJet

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Nothing left in the OHL? Geez he’s not some superstar who has learned everything, just look at some of the first round defenseman drafted from the CHL recently and there are plenty that have played four seasons there. Shea Theodore, Morrisey, Pulock, Fleury, Nurse for example, Sanheim also played two years after being drafted. If players like these can stay in the CHL and develop then I think Durzi can too. I think rushing him to the AHL would be a big mistake.

Durzi would be sheltered, seeing third pairing minutes, playing only the back to back situations initially. Far more practice and physical training time with the world class development team than actual games, which will do him wonders. When Liljegren heads off to the WJC in December (or possibly the NHL sometime before that), Durzi will see an increased role and some PP2 time.

If he has a good summer, I can’t see a reason to keep him off the Marlies.
 

Boutette

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Sep 28, 2017
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Now that MLSE actually owns the ECHL affiliate, I think we may see the Leafs put into greater effect Dubas’s stated plan to use theECHL team as a first level development program.... a bit like the lower level minors in baseball. We may see prospects assigned to the Growlers rather than retuning to junior as overagers if they can't make the Marlies.

And that's fine. Many posters rave about the fact that the European Leagues offer the chance for prospects to play against men. Well, so does playing in the ECHL, even if its poorer in talent than the to European leagues in for a little while before being hoisted up to the AHL if they prove they are too good for it.
 

TML1967

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And that's fine. Many posters rave about the fact that the European Leagues offer the chance for prospects to play against men. Well, so does playing in the ECHL, even if its poorer in talent than the to European leagues in for a little while before being hoisted up to the AHL if they prove they are too good for it.
I think the big advantage to owning a ECHL team would be using it as a 'up down' to play guys.
I.e. Durzi may only play in the AHL on back to back or 3 in 3s. He could be sent to the ECHL a bunch of times to get more play time in against men.

I am though, still on board with him playing like 50% of the games in the AHL and just working on physical developing.

We have a few young D on that team. Try and make sure no one gets overplayed by doing 3 in 3s or back to backs.

That way every one gets some play time, and they all have enough time and experts around then to keep developing physically
 
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Barilko14

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Jul 5, 2006
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Nothing left in the OHL? Geez he’s not some superstar who has learned everything, just look at some of the first round defenseman drafted from the CHL recently and there are plenty that have played four seasons there. Shea Theodore, Morrisey, Pulock, Fleury, Nurse for example, Sanheim also played two years after being drafted. If players like these can stay in the CHL and develop then I think Durzi can too. I think rushing him to the AHL would be a big mistake.

Without looking into everyone's age going into their last CHL seasons, are you sure those players didn't start in the CHL at a younger age then Durzi??
He'll be 20 a month after the season starts. That isn't the typical route of top prospects.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Nothing left in the OHL? Geez he’s not some superstar who has learned everything, just look at some of the first round defenseman drafted from the CHL recently and there are plenty that have played four seasons there. Shea Theodore, Morrisey, Pulock, Fleury, Nurse for example, Sanheim also played two years after being drafted. If players like these can stay in the CHL and develop then I think Durzi can too. I think rushing him to the AHL would be a big mistake.
Every single player mentioned is a January 1st to September 15th birthday, and were therefore ineligible for the AHL until their draft+3.

How about you find examples of successful players who were AHL eligible who spent their 20-year-old season in the CHL, while also being drafted in the first 2 rounds. I don't expect this to be a long-list. There are late bloomers such as Spurgeon, Clarkson, Mike Hoffman, and Tyler Johnson, but all were guys who were either undrafted or drafted in the 5th round or later. I get Durzi is a long-shot to be a valuable NHLer, at about 15% to 20% chance just going off the location in which he was picked (other analytics are much more optimistic), but an over-age year would not be promising at all.
 
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MyBudJT

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Mar 5, 2018
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I’m really liking our depth on D, Especially on the left! I think the Leafs’ biggest weakness will soon be a strength!

Safe bets:
Liljegren
Sandin
Dermott
Borgman
————
Young depth guys
Marincin
Rosen
Carrick
Holl
————
Solid prospects:
Rasanen
Durzi
Kral
Gordeev
Lindgren
Hollowell
O’Connell
————
C prospects
Greenway
Subban


I wouldn’t be surprised if 7 or 8 of these guys become NHLers
 

uncleben

Global Moderator
Dec 4, 2008
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I’m really liking our depth on D, Especially on the left! I think the Leafs’ biggest weakness will soon be a strength!

Safe bets:
Liljegren
Sandin
Dermott
Borgman
————
Young depth guys
Marincin
Rosen
Carrick
Holl
————
Solid prospects:
Rasanen
Durzi
Kral
Gordeev
Lindgren
Hollowell
O’Connell
————
C prospects
Greenway
Subban


I wouldn’t be surprised if 7 or 8 of these guys become NHLers
Personally, for me, Hollowell is very much not a solid prospect.
He's a project at best, but I don't think he turns into anything (of course, I'd rather be wrong)
I think both Mattinen and Desrochers were better prospects, tbh
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Here is #18.
18) Trevor Moore
Breakdown of grades:
1-poor
2-below average
3-average
4-good
5-great

2016-17
-1427570470747489332
Toronto Marlies
AHL57132033189|Playoffs112244-2
2017-18
-1427570470747489332
Toronto Marlies
AHL68122133221|Playoffs206111747
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Stats
2016/2017(in bold)
2017/2018
eTOI/GP- 2nd line ice time 3rd line ice time
G/GP- good 2nd liner good 3rd liner
A1/GP- great 2nd liner below average 2nd liner
A2/GP- below average 2nd liner average 2nd liner
P1/GP- good 2nd liner great 3rd liner
P/GP- decent 2nd liner poor 2nd liner
Sh/GP- below average 3rd liner below average 2nd liner
eG/60- great 3rd liner decent 4th liner
eA1/60- great 2nd liner decent 2nd liner

Player grades: Present/Future
Skating: 3/3.5
Shot: 2/2.5
Puck Skills: 3.5/3.5
Compete: 4/4
Defence: 3/4

One of those players where you probably weren’t expecting too much, but now is proving to be a pretty solid player, and a prospect that shouldn’t be ignored. He went undrafted for two years before the Leafs signed Moore to a 3 year entry level contract in 2016. He has made some decent progress and is looked as someone that may be fighting for a spot on the Leafs.

I would call his skating “good enough” for the highest level. It doesn’t hurt him and isn’t really a disadvantage. Overall, an above average skater that can stay with the play and in the end, that is the important part. In fact, his skating looks better when he is in the corners with the puck and can evade checkers. This is also the area where he is the most effective so it’s a good thing his skating is the best here as well. I guess he can be labeled as more of a shifty skater then a fast one. Its not an amazing tool but he knows how to use it.

He has some solid offensive tools. The biggest asset is probably his vision and passing ability. Not really in terms of open ice rushes, but in terms of setting up in the corners and making plays for others. However, he isn’t all that good at creating opportunities for himself. He can be called a playmaker for teammates. His shot isn’t very good, and doesn’t score many even strength goals, and that is the weakest part about him, it doesn’t help that he also struggles to generate shots which is shown by the stats. Overall, he has produced good numbers when he has played in the top 6, and has decent playmaking ability, but I don’t think his overall offensive package is good enough to play a scoring role at the NHL level, but he has shown he can set up good players and be a nice support piece on a line. This is the pathway to him making the NHL and be effective as well.

Defensively, he is fine and reliable. It doesn’t mean the tools are great or anything, but he won’t hurt the team and usually that’s all that is required. He works hard in all zones, and always gives an honest effort. I wouldn’t say he plays all out, but he has a solid work ethic and plays a simple defensive game. All his tools aside from his shot grade as mostly average but he has been a solid player for the Marlies. He is a steady player that doesn’t have a stand out skill, but has been successful in the AHL.

Stock?

Up
All though his playing time dropped which also affected his production, Moore has proven to be at least a solid AHL player, and has shown he can produce no matter where he is in the lineup. When he does get a chance to play a bigger role like 2 seasons ago, his numbers have been good.

Will he make the NHL?

Yes he will. Moore doesn’t do anything amazingly, but the tools are decent and has shown to be good dependable player in the AHL that also works hard. He is unlikely to make the top 6 in the NHL, but should be able to play a bottom 6 role that provides some energy while chipping in offensively. I have his ETA in the 2018/2019 season.
 

MyBudJT

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Mar 5, 2018
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Personally, for me, Hollowell is very much not a solid prospect.
He's a project at best, but I don't think he turns into anything (of course, I'd rather be wrong)
I think both Mattinen and Desrochers were better prospects, tbh

I was kind of with you there, but the scouting report from @Mike Farkas sold me a bit and upgraded Hollowell from a 'C prospect' to a 'solid prospect'.

Maybe Mike can chime in here... His scouting report is below:


Not a Leafs fan, but I am down here in Dallas doing some draft related activities (some call it "work", but that has a negative connotation), and I could not be more thrilled for this pick. Hollowell is very small, but he is one of the best skaters in the entire draft class, smart, skilled and plays a pretty mature game all things considered.

My write up on him, for whatever it's worth...

2. Mac Hollowell (Soo [OHL] #11, RHS, RD/LD) - Remarkably mobile, offensive-minded defenseman. Hollowell has one of the finest skating bases in his age group. He can motor around the rink forwards, backwards, laterally, any way you want it and he can beat virtually anyone to any spot. Has a penchant for escapability and swinging his net and just leaving forecheckers in his wake. Has a terrific skill set and can make guys miss with the combo of his speed, edges and stick work. He isn't just a reckless offensive d-man either, he is actually very smart in all facets. He has high-end hockey IQ and exhibits that at all times. Defensively he is well positioned, but can be over-matched size wise. Even in his jersey, it looks like he's wearing his father's suit. He avoids taking big hits because it's like nailing Jell-o to a tree trying to track him down. He has elite skating and elite hockey IQ and plenty of skill, that makes him a player regardless of his size.

Hockey Sense: A
Skating speed/power/acc: A+
Skating lateral/edges/agility: A+
Vision: A
Puck skills: A-
Shot: B-
Defense technique: B
Defense urgency: C
Frame/size: F
Ceiling/Risk: V.High/med (2nd rd)


Now, I may be the biggest Hollowell (and Joey Keane, for that matter) pimp in Dallas, but there are a few followers that I talked to. There are also a number of teams that had him as ND because of his size. Even a couple OHL GMs I talked to were a little taken aback that I had him as my #2 d-man in the O. One analytics guy I talked to (real analytics, not corsi stuff) graded him very highly.


Also, unrelated, I was staying in the same hotel as Rasmus Sandin (who I am a big fan of as well...very smart player), I talked to him a couple times since he was selected...he couldn't be more thrilled to be a Maple Leaf. He won't take that Leafs hat off, it's been glued to his head since he got it on stage haha

Sandin is my #3 d-man in the OHL for the record. I thought both OHL d-men were great value picks...
 

Cor

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Jun 24, 2012
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Hollowell got ragged on for a couple of reasons

1. overager
2. From SSM (only reason he was drafted by Dubas)
3. His size

When you look at the player, it’s clear there is some serious talent there. His game is similar to Torey Krug.
 
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uncleben

Global Moderator
Dec 4, 2008
14,167
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Acton, Ontario
Hollowell got ragged on for a couple of reasons

1. Overagers
2. From SSM
3. His size

When you look at the player, it’s clear there is some serious talent there. His game is similar to Torey Krug.
Or a smaller but more mobile Matt Finn.
 

Cor

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Or a smaller but more mobile Matt Finn.

I don’t know about that. Skating is arguably Hollowell’s biggest strength while it was Finn’s downfall. Hollowell is a offensive guy, while I’d say Finn was more of a two way guy.

Hollowell to me is a Liles/Krug/MA Bergeron type. A guy that if he develops, he’ll be a 2nd pairing, power play specialist.
 

Obliviate

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Jun 26, 2018
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I don’t know about that. Skating is arguably Hollowell’s biggest strength while it was Finn’s downfall. Hollowell is a offensive guy, while I’d say Finn was more of a two way guy.

Hollowell to me is a Liles/Krug/MA Bergeron type. A guy that if he develops, he’ll be a 2nd pairing, power play specialist.
that would be a great result given his draft position.
 

namttebih

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Dec 11, 2010
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East York
IIRC Grundstrom played the right side, but is more of a LW by trade.

Or maybe it was the other way around. Can't remember, but I'm pretty sure they're both LW's.
Ya, they're both LW but played so well together. Add Kadri to their chemistry and the Leafs could have a pretty potent 3rd line.

Same goes for Brown and Kapanen. Both RW but would love to see them as a scary 4th line with special team duties.

All Marlies grads from the last couple of years. Feels good mang
 
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