Prospects and Marlies Discussion: The Hope for the Future Thread

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Duke16

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Dakota Joshua + Dominic Toninato

Both seem to be impressive C project picks with top 9 potential and are two of our better C prospects. Thoughts on these two?
 

Caesium

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To be top 9 they would have to be better than Marner, Nylander, or Kadri. They're not any of these things and I doubt either of them play in the NHL. Their production is quite bad and they're getting vastly outperformed by younger players.
 

Duke16

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The word 'potential' doesn't guarntee top 9, it refers to their potential ability. They may not play for the Leafs, but could get a chance elsewhere.
 

HockeyNightInBelfast

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To be top 9 they would have to be better than Marner, Nylander, or Kadri. They're not any of these things and I doubt either of them play in the NHL. Their production is quite bad and they're getting vastly outperformed by younger players.

:help:

Joshua (a winger) led his team to the USHL title & is committed to college hockey a year after he was drafted.

Toninato was 2nd on his team in scoring in just his 2nd year of college hockey.

PLENTY of time for these two intriguing prospects to continue to develop.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Also, both do things away from the puck also. They are two-way players. It's quite rare to find guys whom are able to become top line caliber in just their 2nd season and run with it like Toninato has. Joshua was the key reason why Sioux Falls won the Clark Cup also.

They aren't small, that's why people hate them. Well when we find out our team needs some size to go with skill, these guys will get a call. You can't do consistently well in the playoffs unless you have some size. Even Tampa's 2nd line was non-existent half the time... Or any time they didn't score.
 

Bravid Nonahan

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I think Toninato's production is fine, while Joshua's is nothing to write home about. You'd ideally like to see a player scoer >1 ppg in his Draft +1 year in the USHL.

Neither should be written off now though.
 

Menzinger

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I've been a fan of Toninato for some time. He just needs to keep working on his skating and I think he can be a good NHLer
 

NotSince67*

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I like Toninato. His style of play, two-way play and play along the boards, hockey IQ, strong in the dot. I think his game translates well to pro and has shot to make it as a 3-4 centre from there.

As a later round pick all you can ask for is these guys can be good pros and hopefully make the NHL.
 

ULF_55

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To be top 9 they would have to be better than Marner, Nylander, or Kadri. They're not any of these things and I doubt either of them play in the NHL. Their production is quite bad and they're getting vastly outperformed by younger players.

By top 9, I think he means on one of the top 3 lines, as in a top 9 forward, top 6 would be 2nd. line or 1st. line, top 3 would be 1st. line.

Marner and Nylander are hopefully top 3 forwards.

Of course Joshaua and Toninato should be considered top 9.
 

keon

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By top 9, I think he means on one of the top 3 lines, as in a top 9 forward, top 6 would be 2nd. line or 1st. line, top 3 would be 1st. line.

Marner and Nylander are hopefully top 3 forwards.

Of course Joshaua and Toninato should be considered top 9.

Any pick after the second round is usually a project. I think Toninato has great potential to be a 3rd line player because of his two-way play. I see him more as a LW than center. I feel he is similar to Levio.
 

Ovate

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Way to early to judge. We'll have to see how Joshua adapts to college hockey before we can even begin to make a judgement on if he has NHL potential.

Toninato has to make a significant improvement in a short time before he becomes a bust.

Odds are that both never play more than a handful of NHL games (though I still have high hopes for Joshua). That's totally ok. The majority of third round or later picks are in the same boat.
 

RyanOhReally

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Way to early to judge. We'll have to see how Joshua adapts to college hockey before we can even begin to make a judgement on if he has NHL potential.

Toninato has to make a significant improvement in a short time before he becomes a bust.

Odds are that both never play more than a handful of NHL games (though I still have high hopes for Joshua). That's totally ok. The majority of third round or later picks are in the same boat.

Lol what has Toninato done to deserve a potential bust label? He just scored 16 goals in his sophomore year, while playing a 2-way game. Zach Hyman didn't have 16 NCAA career goals until the end of his junior year. He's done nothing but impress so far, Joshua too.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Lol what has Toninato done to deserve a potential bust label? He just scored 16 goals in his sophomore year, while playing a 2-way game. Zach Hyman didn't have 16 NCAA career goals until the end of his junior year. He's done nothing but impress so far, Joshua too.

Hyman sucked armpit until Larkin showed up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him bust out in one year. Before Larkin showed up, he had fewer points in his three previous seasons than he did in his last season. He had a stellar last season but still only finished 0.59 PPG in his NCAA career, which is the same level as Toninato and far worse than Cameranesi... And I'd take either of the latter before the former.

McKegg is worth the risk he'll produce like his senior year without Larkin, but I have a feeling he'll turn into a contract dump sooner rather than later. Like worse than Frattin.
 

Mikeyg

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you people ascribe literally 0 value to bottom 6. Stop comparing them to marner/kadri/nylander, they simply arent those kind of high end blue chip prospects. Last time I checked, teams need 2nd/3rd/4th line wingers that can play. Not every prospect is going to be ppg or anything like that, stop making these false hopes. We have a lot of bottom 6 prospects and they still need to be developed. You guys need to realize that bottom 6 players have value and to stop writing off prospects that aren't top 6. To say that they wont be on the leafs because they dont have top line potential is an absolute joke. You guys make such a big deal about size... Joshua is a 6'3 200 pound kid who got 20 goals and 44 points in 52 games this season, that literally sounds like a great 3rd line winger somewhere down the road imo.
 

SeaOfBlue

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you people ascribe literally 0 value to bottom 6. Stop comparing them to marner/kadri/nylander, they simply arent those kind of high end blue chip prospects. Last time I checked, teams need 2nd/3rd/4th line wingers that can play. Not every prospect is going to be ppg or anything like that, stop making these false hopes. We have a lot of bottom 6 prospects and they still need to be developed. You guys need to realize that bottom 6 players have value and to stop writing off prospects that aren't top 6. To say that they wont be on the leafs because they dont have top line potential is an absolute joke.

Yup. Pittsburgh could use some depth right about now.
 

67Cup

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I've only seen Toninato in one complete game, an NCAA tournament game this year. That isn't much so I won't be very definite in my opinion. But I was moderately encouraged watching him. He passed the eyeball test as a centre, with good size and decent skating, in fact, good skating by college standards. He played as the number one centre on one of the strongest teams in the NCAA. That's not an insignificant accomplishment. I'm not sure his teammate, Cameranesi, will even be signed by the Leafs but I would be very surprised if that is the case with Toninato.

The first hurdle for a prospect is earning that entry level contract. Toninato is well on his way to that. He is not an "a" prospect, perhaps, but he is worth following with interest.
 

SeaOfBlue

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I've only seen Toninato in one complete game, an NCAA tournament game this year. That isn't much so I won't be very definite in my opinion. But I was moderately encouraged watching him. He passed the eyeball test as a centre, with good size and decent skating, in fact, good skating by college standards. He played as the number one centre on one of the strongest teams in the NCAA. That's not an insignificant accomplishment. I'm not sure his teammate, Cameranesi, will even be signed by the Leafs but I would be very surprised if that is the case with Toninato.

The first hurdle for a prospect is earning that entry level contract. Toninato is well on his way to that. He is not an "a" prospect, perhaps, but he is worth following with interest.

Because, like I said, he will be traded ;)
 

ULF_55

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you people ascribe literally 0 value to bottom 6. Stop comparing them to marner/kadri/nylander, they simply arent those kind of high end blue chip prospects. Last time I checked, teams need 2nd/3rd/4th line wingers that can play. Not every prospect is going to be ppg or anything like that, stop making these false hopes.

We have a lot of bottom 6 prospects and they still need to be developed. You guys need to realize that bottom 6 players have value and to stop writing off prospects that aren't top 6. To say that they wont be on the leafs because they dont have top line potential is an absolute joke. You guys make such a big deal about size... Joshua is a 6'3 200 pound kid who got 20 goals and 44 points in 52 games this season, that literally sounds like a great 3rd line winger somewhere down the road imo.

Which leads us right back to a top 9 player, which is a 3rd. liner.

3rd. liner is both a bottom 6 and top 9 player. :laugh:
 

NotSince67*

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Which leads us right back to a top 9 player, which is a 3rd. liner.

3rd. liner is both a bottom 6 and top 9 player. :laugh:

He's talking about guys who are bottom 9 versus top 9. There's a big difference. Despite th overlap of the 2nd and 3rd lines there are two big differences. One has top line potential, the other does not. You do realize how rare it is to draft 1st line players?

Second difference? A top 9 player's floor is a bottom 9's ceiling. That's a huge difference as well.
 
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