Prospect Info: Prospect Talk PART IX

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blinkman360

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I like all the picks I've highlighted. BUT, the goaltending, the Isles ALWAYS seem to reach when it comes to them, leaving more talented and better valued players on the board, when MOST likely, those goalies would be available later on in the draft. IF the Isles had taken Buchnevich (or others) instead of McAdam or Fasching (or others) instead of Williams, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Don't even get me started on Koskinen, for instance, Ryan O'Reilly was chosen 2 picks afterwards, I can go on and on who was available at the time. better players as well as better goalies available (Lehner for example).

I love the guys down at Bridgeport as well, excellent picks. Love Strome, Lee, Sundstrom, Pedan and Mayfield.

Problem is, the Isles seem to make smarter picks in the later rounds instead of the middle rounds. YET despite being very productive as late round picks, they never seem to sign them. I can see Burroughs, Graham, Russo, Bischoff and VCR all not getting contract offers from the Isles even though they are having good careers so far. Just like Theoret and Kitchton. So might as well make the SMART picks during the middle rounds, since they usually don't sign those SMART late round picks anyway.

I wanted Lehner, but every team can do this with pretty much every pick. Sometimes you miss, or you think you're taking a steal when everyone thinks you're taking garbage, and it ends up being garbage. No team has a 100% success rate. No team even has a 50% success rate. If you walk away from the draft with 3 NHLers, I'd consider that pretty successful. So far, IMO there is more good than bad. That's really all I can ask for at this point.

If you want to talk about not bringing in a UFA goaltender, or trading Nino for Clutterbuck, or a handful of other poor decisions by Snow, I'd agree 100%. The draft though, I think that's one of the few bright spots(re-signing core players at discount prices would be another).
 

scott99

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I wanted Lehner, but every team can do this with pretty much every pick. Sometimes you miss, or you think you're taking a steal when everyone thinks you're taking garbage, and it ends up being garbage. No team has a 100% success rate. No team even has a 50% success rate. If you walk away from the draft with 3 NHLers, I'd consider that pretty successful. So far, IMO there is more good than bad. That's really all I can ask for at this point.

If you want to talk about not bringing in a UFA goaltender, or trading Nino for Clutterbuck, or a handful of other poor decisions by Snow, I'd agree 100%. The draft though, I think that's one of the few bright spots(re-signing core players at discount prices would be another).

Overall, I agree, the draft has been a success. It's just frustrating to see the Isles miss on obvious talents for guys that probably can be taken later on (McAdam & Willams). For instance, A draft of Pulock, Buchnevich, Cammarata, Fasching, VCR, Goalie, Burroughs. That's a helluva draft. If you're going to draft goalie Stephon Williams, who wasn't even rated, why not take a chance at a guy like Fasching, whom most had labeled at a 1st or 2nd round prospect, instead of wasting a valuable 4th round pick on a guy like Williams. And believe it or not, there is always VALUE in the 3rd or 4th round. Some may call it a crap shoot, but there is value. Look at guys like Cizikas, Donovan, Pedan and Russo, excellent picks in the 4th round. And guess what ?, they were all rated higher than where they were picked. Look for value in the 3rd and 4th rounds and pick the guys rated higher. When I look at Niederreiter for Clutterbuck and Buchnevich, I see that as equal value, with Buchnevich possibly being better than Niederreiter on his own. When I look at Niederreiter for Clutterbuck and McAdam, I see another lost trade.
 

blinkman360

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Overall, I agree, the draft has been a success. It's just frustrating to see the Isles miss on obvious talents for guys that probably can be taken later on (McAdam & Willams). For instance, A draft of Pulock, Buchnevich, Cammarata, Fasching, VCR, Goalie, Burroughs. That's a helluva draft. If you're going to draft goalie Stephon Williams, who wasn't even rated, why not take a chance at a guy like Fasching, whom most had labeled at a 1st or 2nd round prospect, instead of wasting a valuable 4th round pick on a guy like Williams. And believe it or not, there is always VALUE in the 3rd or 4th round. Some may call it a crap shoot, but there is value. Look at guys like Cizikas, Donovan, Pedan and Russo, excellent picks in the 4th round. And guess what ?, they were all rated higher than where they were picked. Look for value in the 3rd and 4th rounds and pick the guys rated higher. When I look at Niederreiter for Clutterbuck and Buchnevich, I see that as equal value, with Buchnevich possibly being better than Niederreiter on his own. When I look at Niederreiter for Clutterbuck and McAdam, I see another lost trade.

I think it's a combo of things. One being that a lot of these skill guys who project to go in the mid-late rounds never amount to anything more than Tambellini's or Schremp's. Guys who dominate Juniors and the AHL but can't score in the NHL. So while a guy like Buchnevich looks like a no-brainer on paper, you have to wonder why he fell to the 3rd round in the first place. Maybe it's something in his game, or maybe it's just the 'Russian factor'. Either way, I think a kid drafted by the Rangers would be much more tempted to come over to NA than a kid drafted by the Islanders. Both NY, but two completely different markets. Even if he ends up reaching the status you think he will and ends up coming over, who knows if the same would have happened if we took him in the 3rd. Could just as well be another Petrov situation, which is a complete waste of a pick(to this point, at least).

The other thing is that the Islanders probably think they are smarter than they really are. Thinking they can find a diamond in something the rest of the hockey world perceives to be trash. More often than not, it actually is trash, but on occasion guys like McAdam and Williams actually warrant the leap of faith that organizations show in them by 'reaching'. I guess you could argue that the Isles could have waited another round if they really 'had' to have them, but I'd imagine it's hard to tell what teams value those players the same way you do. Just look at de Haan as an example. I'd like to believe Snow was worried about another team thinking along the same lines and taking de Haan way above slot. Maybe at the end of the day he was just bidding against himself... who knows?

Either way, I'm 90% sure you'll end up right, and these will be wasted picks. That said I'm almost just as sure that a guy like Buchnevich will never have the type of impact to warrant looking back on this pick as a mistake. But then again, even if he simply reaches the NHL, you'd have to consider that a good 3rd round pick.
 

scott99

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I think it's a combo of things. One being that a lot of these skill guys who project to go in the mid-late rounds never amount to anything more than Tambellini's or Schremp's. Guys who dominate Juniors and the AHL but can't score in the NHL. So while a guy like Buchnevich looks like a no-brainer on paper, you have to wonder why he fell to the 3rd round in the first place. Maybe it's something in his game, or maybe it's just the 'Russian factor'. Either way, I think a kid drafted by the Rangers would be much more tempted to come over to NA than a kid drafted by the Islanders. Both NY, but two completely different markets. Even if he ends up reaching the status you think he will and ends up coming over, who knows if the same would have happened if we took him in the 3rd. Could just as well be another Petrov situation, which is a complete waste of a pick(to this point, at least).

The other thing is that the Islanders probably think they are smarter than they really are. Thinking they can find a diamond in something the rest of the hockey world perceives to be trash. More often than not, it actually is trash, but on occasion guys like McAdam and Williams actually warrant the leap of faith that organizations show in them by 'reaching'. I guess you could argue that the Isles could have waited another round if they really 'had' to have them, but I'd imagine it's hard to tell what teams value those players the same way you do. Just look at de Haan as an example. I'd like to believe Snow was worried about another team thinking along the same lines and taking de Haan way above slot. Maybe at the end of the day he was just bidding against himself... who knows?

Either way, I'm 90% sure you'll end up right, and these will be wasted picks. That said I'm almost just as sure that a guy like Buchnevich will never have the type of impact to warrant looking back on this pick as a mistake. But then again, even if he simply reaches the NHL, you'd have to consider that a good 3rd round pick.

The bold part is what drives me nuts as an Islander's fan, blink. yes the Isles have made some good draft picks that have worked out (as far as getting a contract and being in the Isle's system), but what's the harm in taking guys that you can add to the pile. I'm sorry, but Leduc and Williams were horrible picks, considering what was still available at the time, as well as the fact that those two guys, MOST LIKELY, would have been available in the 6th round. IF you wanna try to find that diamond, do it in the 6th round, don't waste valuable 3rd or 4th round picks.

Look at Pelech, what an excellent 3rd round pick, and a great value pick. Most had him going in the 2nd round, in fact, some had him rated higher than our 2nd round pick (Pokka). He may wind up being a Hamonic type in the NHL. THAT's outsmarting other teams. Drafting Leduc in the 4th round, when several VALUABLE prospects are still available is just a waste, bad asset management. I'm rooting for the guy, but I can almost guarantee you he will NEVER play an NHL game. Pelech I feel will. A tale of 2 rounds. I don't need a 100% draft rate, But I'd love SMART drafting.
 

blinkman360

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The bold part is what drives me nuts as an Islander's fan, blink. yes the Isles have made some good draft picks that have worked out (as far as getting a contract and being in the Isle's system), but what's the harm in taking guys that you can add to the pile. I'm sorry, but Leduc and Williams were horrible picks, considering what was still available at the time, as well as the fact that those two guys, MOST LIKELY, would have been available in the 6th round. IF you wanna try to find that diamond, do it in the 6th round, don't waste valuable 3rd or 4th round picks.

Look at Pelech, what an excellent 3rd round pick, and a great value pick. Most had him going in the 2nd round, in fact, some had him rated higher than our 2nd round pick (Pokka). He may wind up being a Hamonic type in the NHL. THAT's outsmarting other teams. Drafting Leduc in the 4th round, when several VALUABLE prospects are still available is just a waste, bad asset management. I'm rooting for the guy, but I can almost guarantee you he will NEVER play an NHL game. Pelech I feel will. A tale of 2 rounds. I don't need a 100% draft rate, But I'd love SMART drafting.

I didn't like the Williams pick at the time, but I didn't mind the Leduc pick. I think the Leduc pick had a lot to do with our system being ridiculously stocked at the time, and the Isles figured they had the depth and the time to invest in a project pick, which is what he is. If he fails, no big deal, but if he succeeds he could be a big time asset, which is basically what the Isles need more than anything. They have enough depth-type prospects in the system(which is generally what you find in the mid-late rounds), but they could absolutely use another high-end prospect or two. I'm guessing they saw that type of upside in Leduc.

Chances are he'll amount to nothing more than Joe Finley, but if the possibility of something more is there I really don't mind them spending a 4th on it, especially when the system is as stocked as it is.
 

kuwo

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Scary to think of how much Petrov would mean to the Islanders line up. The kid is really coming along nicely in a league that doesn't feature a heck of a lot of scoring from what I have seen.

Plus he is becoming a really well-rounded player. Used in all situations (PP, PK, late in game etc.), highest ToI/G among forwards (higher than Burmistrov for example, even though Petrov has less points) and a really dependable presence...
 

steveat

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I wonder that if Petrov comes...I am thinking Strome is going centre.

Vanek - JT - KO
Bailey - Nielsen - Petrov
Grabner - Strome - Clutterbuck
Martin - Zeeker - CMcD

Then we still Have Nelson, Lee, Halmo, KK, Persson as depth....plus more...

I would say we could trade away some of these players, but if we do, then we are back to square one with no depth. People will have to bust their ***** to stay up.
 

blinkman360

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I wonder that if Petrov comes...I am thinking Strome is going centre.

Vanek - JT - KO
Bailey - Nielsen - Petrov
Grabner - Strome - Clutterbuck
Martin - Zeeker - CMcD

Then we still Have Nelson, Lee, Halmo, KK, Persson as depth....plus more...

I would say we could trade away some of these players, but if we do, then we are back to square one with no depth. People will have to bust their ***** to stay up.

First, I think Strome will stick at center regardless of what Petrov does. Second, I don't see how Petrov would keep Nelson out of the lineup. If anything, you move someone else like McDonald. Nelson is quickly establishing himself, and by next year(the earliest we'd see Petrov) I see him being a lock for the top-9.
 

SI90

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Petrov is like being married to an inmate with 25- life. He might get love on the inside but you know he will never score with you.
 

Metnut

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If we really wanted Petrov would we be able to offer him more than he's making in the KHL, or is there some sort of restriction that would only allow us to offer him some sort of compartively low paying entry-level deal?
 

scott99

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If we really wanted Petrov would we be able to offer him more than he's making in the KHL, or is there some sort of restriction that would only allow us to offer him some sort of compartively low paying entry-level deal?

I think he would still have to sign an ELC. Can't compare with what he would get in the KHL. Only thing that would get him over here would be his own ego (compete against the best in the world in the NHL), and/or some promises (1st or 2nd line).
 

TexMurphyPI

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Due to age Petrov next season would have to sign a 1 year ELC, then can be a RFA and get as much as he can. At age 25+ there are no ELC restrictions. So he may sign another KHL contract before coming over if he wants near the same money. If he does that I don't know if the Isles would still hold his rights after another KHL contract.
 

KrisBeKreame

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Due to age Petrov next season would have to sign a 1 year ELC, then can be a RFA and get as much as he can. At age 25+ there are no ELC restrictions. So he may sign another KHL contract before coming over if he wants near the same money. If he does that I don't know if the Isles would still hold his rights after another KHL contract.

Yes, the Islanders hold his rights indefinitely.
 

InformTheMasses

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Pulock just added a late Powerplay goal... patented slapper from the point. being posted now Brandon leads 5-2 late in the third

Okay as promised the Pulock Goal... I gave you some other decent plays from Pulock during the game including a nice open ice takeout check on Zajac:


The KHL is back from hiatus here is the Kirill Petrov deflection goal:



And Mark Katic Assist:
 
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SI90

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Pulock is so great at Ruhing the puck and gaining the Zone and man that wicked slaper, I love t...


Pulock's stat line is imprssive offensively...Hes over a PPG as a defenseman...

Hes 7-11-18 in 17gp

prorated that's 29-50-79 in 72 GP

small sample but offensively hes really playing great and creating so many chances...I cant wait for this kid to develop...

The only Negative is he is a -1. Dont know if its because hes on a bad team and most of his production comes on the PP or if hes not too good defensively...
 

duster19

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Pulock is so great at Ruhing the puck and gaining the Zone and man that wicked slaper, I love t...


Pulock's stat line is imprssive offensively...Hes over a PPG as a defenseman...

Hes 7-11-18 in 17gp

prorated that's 29-50-79 in 72 GP

small sample but offensively hes really playing great and creating so many chances...I cant wait for this kid to develop...

The only Negative is he is a -1. Dont know if its because hes on a bad team and most of his production comes on the PP or if hes not too good defensively...


The jr game is obviously very slow for him. He exactly the number one guy the isles lack..just need his game to translate. Very nice skater. I'm very excited about this kid.
 

scott99

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Pulock is so great at Ruhing the puck and gaining the Zone and man that wicked slaper, I love t...


Pulock's stat line is imprssive offensively...Hes over a PPG as a defenseman...

Hes 7-11-18 in 17gp

prorated that's 29-50-79 in 72 GP

small sample but offensively hes really playing great and creating so many chances...I cant wait for this kid to develop...

The only Negative is he is a -1. Dont know if its because hes on a bad team and most of his production comes on the PP or if hes not too good defensively...
I just hope it translates to NHL quality hockey. Meaning, despite what some scouts mentioned as him not being a good skater, it sure looks like he has no problem rushing up ice and past other junior players. When I watch the highlights, to me, he looks to be an above average skater. Is his skating good enough to do what he's doing in juniors and do it in the NHL ?

I remember guys like Wayne McBean and Bryan Fogarty tearing it up in juniors, but never had that same success in the NHL. That being said, the small sample of what I saw of Pulock in NHL preseason games, he seemed to have no problem keeping up with NHL skaters. In fact, I saw a big difference between his first NHL preseason game and his last. Time will tell, he's playing very well so far this year. Btw, I loved the hit as much as the goal :)
 

SI90

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Can someone explain to me how Reinhart's teammate Corbett was undrafted? I read scouting reports on him and hey were all pretty good coming out of MIN...He'sut up decent number is the dub and has decent size....

I think he is worth a late round pick if available and worth taking a gamble on...
 

steveat

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First, I think Strome will stick at center regardless of what Petrov does. Second, I don't see how Petrov would keep Nelson out of the lineup. If anything, you move someone else like McDonald. Nelson is quickly establishing himself, and by next year(the earliest we'd see Petrov) I see him being a lock for the top-9.

You are right, but I don't think it's time to jump on the Nelson bandwagon. I need to see more of him. Look at Krug in Boston..putting up pretty darn good numbers (for an offensive defenseman rookie), but he is having issues with his 2-way game. Nelson has his own flaws and until I see him addressing and showing improvement, then I will ride that bandwagon. The only thing you are seeing is his normal game..starting from not so confident to a higher degree of confidence. You aren't seeing an improvement of his skills/ability. No, it's not the same thing. With his confidence improved, he plays what we think is better and improvement, but in reality, it's the way he has always played in BP.

That means we see what he has now and the improvement part is when he takes a skill that he already has and makes it better. When I see that, then I will decide to be on the Nelson bandwagon.
It also has to do with how quickly he improves and so on.
 
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