News Article: Prospect Game Watch: Valentin Zykov

[King'sPawn]

Prospect Game Watch - Valentin Zykov

How far is he from the NHL? How good can a top offensive prospect look when held off the score sheet?

Click to read more...

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Knowing the kings organization, a good 10-15 years. God forbid we add a talented younger in our line up before 20.

 

[Inner Turbulence]

Knowing the kings organization, a good 10-15 years. God forbid we add a talented younger in our line up before 20.

'cause it's worked so well in recent years when the Kings have inserted a teenage forward into the lineup.

* Clifford
* Schenn
* Moller
* Loktionov
0-for-4 pretty much.

Most recent teenage forward succes of the Kings - Anze Kopitar. It takes a special kind of talent to play in the NHL as a teenager.

Maybe if the Kings suck enough and get a high draft pick you can have your dream of a teenager in a Kings uniform

 

[kingsfan]

Knowing the kings organization, a good 10-15 years. God forbid we add a talented younger in our line up before 20.

How often do NHL teams add a teenager, drafted outside the first round, to their line up and have it work out? For every Ryan O'Reilly there's a lot of players whose growth was stunted by the move. Ask Daniel Cleary how much that helped him. Or Gilbert Brule. Or the countless others. And both of those were top end first round picks, not 2nd rounders like Zykov.

But yeah, let's take a kid whose 18 and just put him into the line up because he has skill.

You'd think winning a cup and two straight WCF's would show we are running the team right, and the fact that 50 per cent of the players who have suited up for the Kings this season are homegrown shows we know how the develop our players, but some fans are just impossible to please.

 

[Pucknut50]

'cause it's worked so well in recent years when the Kings have inserted a teenage forward into the lineup.

* Clifford
* Schenn
* Moller
* Loktionov
0-for-4 pretty much.

Most recent teenage forward succes of the Kings - Anze Kopitar. It takes a special kind of talent to play in the NHL as a teenager.

Maybe if the Kings suck enough and get a high draft pick you can have your dream of a teenager in a Kings uniform

* Clifford has always been a bottom 6 forward.
* Schenn never got a chance as he was traded.
* Moller played well and was coming on until he broke his collarbone in worlds.
* Loktionov never got consistent top six minutes. He played really well on the Brown/Loktionov/Stoll line and for no reason they split that line up. I really think if they kept that line together they would be one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL now.
**Kings have never fully given young potential top 6 forwards time to develop since Dustin Brown. If you look at yesterdays game Forsberg is playing on the third line getting experience until they move him to top six. Kings have to start doing this type of thing or the only way guys like Toffoli get to that next level is via injury.

 

[theMajor]

How often do NHL teams add a teenager, drafted outside the first round, to their line up and have it work out? For every Ryan O'Reilly there's a lot of players whose growth was stunted by the move. Ask Daniel Cleary how much that helped him. Or Gilbert Brule. Or the countless others. And both of those were top end first round picks, not 2nd rounders like Zykov.

But yeah, let's take a kid whose 18 and just put him into the line up because he has skill.

You'd think winning a cup and two straight WCF's would show we are running the team right, and the fact that 50 per cent of the players who have suited up for the Kings this season are homegrown shows we know how the develop our players, but some fans are just impossible to please.

well said my man

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I'm not saying an 18 year old. The like of Toffoli Vey and Pearson don't make the team over some scrubs on our line up. Hence 10-15 years waiting period for Zykov.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm not saying an 18 year old. The like of Toffoli Vey and Pearson don't make the team over some scrubs on our line up. Hence 10-15 years waiting period for Zykov.

Do you think for the most part that's a positive?

 

[etherialone]

How often do NHL teams add a teenager, drafted outside the first round, to their line up and have it work out? For every Ryan O'Reilly there's a lot of players whose growth was stunted by the move. Ask Daniel Cleary how much that helped him. Or Gilbert Brule. Or the countless others. And both of those were top end first round picks, not 2nd rounders like Zykov.

But yeah, let's take a kid whose 18 and just put him into the line up because he has skill.

You'd think winning a cup and two straight WCF's would show we are running the team right, and the fact that 50 per cent of the players who have suited up for the Kings this season are homegrown shows we know how the develop our players, but some fans are just impossible to please.

I couldn't agree more.

That said I have seen Zykov twice in person (both this season) and while I like his bull in a china shop style of play he has a far way to go before he can matriculate to the NHL level. I see NHL top 6er in his future and almost would call it a lock but there are outliers to consider (maturation process, physical development etc).

I agree with the idea of making room for our younger players, especially when they are clearly ready and upgrades over the players in front of them (use VV as an example) but the guys you put on the team immediately after you draft them are the Doughty's of the hockey world.

Why risk ruining the potential of a great young player on the outside chance that they will develop into a star NHLer because that is what people would expect, a bonafide top end talent.

If they kept Zykov with the team from camp and he didn't create a pretty big impact right away (see Frattin) allot of Kings fans would be calling him a bust or something along those lines.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

* Clifford has always been a bottom 6 forward.
* Schenn never got a chance as he was traded.
* Moller played well and was coming on until he broke his collarbone in worlds.
* Loktionov never got consistent top six minutes. He played really well on the Brown/Loktionov/Stoll line and for no reason they split that line up. I really think if they kept that line together they would be one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL now.
**Kings have never fully given young potential top 6 forwards time to develop since Dustin Brown. If you look at yesterdays game Forsberg is playing on the third line getting experience until they move him to top six. Kings have to start doing this type of thing or the only way guys like Toffoli get to that next level is via injury.

And guess what? Dustin Brown also had the benefit of the lockout/AHL to round out his game. So the only one in recent years to join and continue to be successful was Kopitar. Every one of those kids you listed got injured, some repeatedly, mostly by playing against men.

Check out Edmonton. How's that fast-tracking to the NHL working out for their young stars?

Hall seems to get it, but he keeps getting murdered due to recklessness.
Nugent-Hopkins is a great thinker and solid 2-way player, but he keeps getting his shoulders exploded.
Justin Schultz? giggle.
Gagner is solid, but he's taken a long time to figure it out.

Now sure, part of their problem is defense/goaltending, but these guys get annihilated turning pro at 18.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Excited about this kid...I traded Voynov for him in my keeper league. Hope he's a gem.

 

[HolyShot*]

Right now its just a problem of finding the perfect match. The kings run a system of pwf - snp - dng on every line in no particular order. We need a decent power forward for that second line and I guess frattins not showing it. Our second line is kind of a puzzle because carter reallly only has chemistry with richards and doesn't fit with kopi and brown.

As long as a prospect has size and is ready, he can fit into that pwf role that we need and when that happens watch out - the kings will be unbeatable.

 

[kingsfan]

* Clifford has always been a bottom 6 forward.
* Schenn never got a chance as he was traded.
* Moller played well and was coming on until he broke his collarbone in worlds.
* Loktionov never got consistent top six minutes. He played really well on the Brown/Loktionov/Stoll line and for no reason they split that line up. I really think if they kept that line together they would be one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL now.
**Kings have never fully given young potential top 6 forwards time to develop since Dustin Brown. If you look at yesterdays game Forsberg is playing on the third line getting experience until they move him to top six. Kings have to start doing this type of thing or the only way guys like Toffoli get to that next level is via injury.

I'd hate to think where Brown would have ended up if not for the lockout. He was wasted his first year in the league as an 18 year old and the lockout allowed him to go to Manchester and play a full season. It wasn't until he was in his third year in the NHL (fourth pro season) before he put up decent offensive numbers in the NHL. The Kings came closer to ruining him than developing in his rookie year.

Btw, Forsberg is -10 in 10 NHL games. I'm sure that's doing wonders to his development.

The way guys like Toffoli get to the NHl is the same way guys like Voynov did. You develop your game in the AHL and step in when you've earned a spot and can hold it. Toffoli didn't do that in camp, in fact if anything he played himself out of a spot.

I don't understand some of you fans, especially vets like you Pucknut. You'd think years of watching us screw up the development of kids would wisen you up to the fact that patience is best most times. The proof thus far is in the number of NHLers developed in the system. Toffoli and Pearson, and hopefully Zykov, will add to that total, but thankfully only when theya re ready.

I'm not saying an 18 year old. The like of Toffoli Vey and Pearson don't make the team over some scrubs on our line up. Hence 10-15 years waiting period for Zykov.

You said before the age of 20. That's all the guys I mentioned in my response.

And so what if it takes a while for the likes of Toffoli, et al. to make it? They should have to earn it, not have it given to them. Toffoli was given all the chances to make it out of camp and played below NHl standards. So he was sent back to Manchester.

Seriously, just because you don't like someone doesn't mean rushing a kid in is any better.

Excited about this kid...I traded Voynov for him in my keeper league. Hope he's a gem.

I hope not even up.

 

[damacles1156]

I remember the days when people were mad as hell on this board, and LGK because the Kings didn't develop ANYONE.

Constantly rushed prospects that flamed out(weren't ready) ETC.

Now Lombardi finally has an actual Development plan in place, and his draft staff is batting almost a 1000. with two roster players out of each draft.

And people are *****ing and moaning about letting prospects develop(wanting to rush them)...

It's almost comical, if it weren't so sad.

 

[KingLB]

Every thread I go into and get ready to post Kingsfan steals all my thunder. Couldn't agree more the last few days on everything.

I'd like to add Oscar Moller to the thread. How well did rushing him play out for the Kings...Him and Clifford were each brought up way to soon. And it completely neutered Cliffords offensive development and he is now seen as a guy that fights and hits and thats it, when he had potential to be so much more.

Oh and love that we bring up crap teams and show that they are bringing up their young players. Really teams rebuilding aren't afraid to play young guys!?!?!? Most teams have 1 young guy in about there top 9 forwards every year and if they prove themselves all year long they move up. Like Saad last year. I have no doubt in my mind that come playoffs one or both of Toffoli/Pearson will be on the Kings. I wonder if DL is waiting to use them as his trade deadline "kick" since they won't be able to make to much headway as far as trades go this year.

 

[Reaper45]

Every thread I go into and get ready to post Kingsfan steals all my thunder. Couldn't agree more the last few days on everything.

I'd like to add Oscar Moller to the thread. How well did rushing him play out for the Kings...Him and Clifford were each brought up way to soon. And it completely neutered Cliffords offensive development and he is now seen as a guy that fights and hits and thats it, when he had potential to be so much more.

Oh and love that we bring up crap teams and show that they are bringing up their young players. Really teams rebuilding aren't afraid to play young guys!?!?!? Most teams have 1 young guy in about there top 9 forwards every year and if they prove themselves all year long they move up. Like Saad last year. I have no doubt in my mind that come playoffs one or both of Toffoli/Pearson will be on the Kings. I wonder if DL is waiting to use them as his trade deadline "kick" since they won't be able to make to much headway as far as trades go this year.

Don't sleep on Vey being his kick. Pearson could be a main stay on the 2nd line this season and Toffoli or the 1st in 2 seasons.

Brown-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Richards-Carter

 

[King'sPawn]

Personally, I think it's great that the prospects aren't such a shoe-in to make the team. I think there are very few players who made the NHL before the age of 20 who wouldn't have benefited from more time developing beforehand.

Zykov, to me, is one of those players who could be a lot like Penner in terms of the role expected out of him. A banging power forward who will be looked upon more for offensive contributions. He definitely has to round out and develop his game, though.

A bad team could rush a player like Zykov, much like how the Kings were back in 2007 and 2008. The good news is they aren't that kind of team anymore.

 

[goosh]

Excited about this kid...I traded Voynov for him in my keeper league. Hope he's a gem.

you did what?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every thread I go into and get ready to post Kingsfan steals all my thunder. Couldn't agree more the last few days on everything.

I'd like to add Oscar Moller to the thread. How well did rushing him play out for the Kings...Him and Clifford were each brought up way to soon. And it completely neutered Cliffords offensive development and he is now seen as a guy that fights and hits and thats it, when he had potential to be so much more.

Oh and love that we bring up crap teams and show that they are bringing up their young players. Really teams rebuilding aren't afraid to play young guys!?!?!? Most teams have 1 young guy in about there top 9 forwards every year and if they prove themselves all year long they move up. Like Saad last year. I have no doubt in my mind that come playoffs one or both of Toffoli/Pearson will be on the Kings. I wonder if DL is waiting to use them as his trade deadline "kick" since they won't be able to make to much headway as far as trades go this year.

Fully agree on Cliffy and even though he's a man-child, the poor kid had to get his clock cleaned by Ryan Reaves waaayyy too early. Just another example of too much, too soon.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Kinda odd he didnt score a goal or assist in three huge wins this season. I'm not on the hype train just yet.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I hope not even up.[/QUOTE]

It's a keeper league with salary cap. Prospects like Zykov have more value than expensive defenseman. I got Brendan Smith as well and cleared 3 million...

 

[SFKingshomer]

you did what?

Prospects like Zykov are more valueable than expensive defenseman in a salary cap keeper league.

 

[kingsfan]

Prospects like Zykov are more valueable than expensive defenseman in a salary cap keeper league.

I run a sim keeper league with a cap and no way I'd deal Voynov for Zykov and Smith, and I like both prospects.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I run a sim keeper league with a cap and no way I'd deal Voynov for Zykov and Smith, and I like both prospects.

That was the only offer I got because no one trades for defenseman making over 3 million. You can get fillers like Bieksa for free on waivers so there's no need to trade assets for guys like Voynov. The 1st place team this year recently traded Shattenkirk for a 2nd in 2015 and added Garrison off waivers to replace him. It's a 16 team keeper in it's 7th year...I've made the playoffs 5 of the 6 years and won it 3 years ago.

 

[kingsfan]

Weird, but I guess if it's a 16 team league it makes more sense. I run a 30 team league, so waiver fodder is usually guys like Dustin Penner, not Kevin Bieksa, lol.