Prospect development in Russia

NJ Fan 12

Registered User
Jun 23, 2020
1,372
507
Saw an interesting discussion in the NHL Prospects - Vasili Podkolzin thread comparing how some clubs were better at developing young players and which relied on local players as opposed to reaching out across the country or even to other countries for players.

Living in America and knowing very little about Russian hockey I was curious as to the differences amongst the various hockey organizations.
 

MaxV

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
4,888
590
New York, NY
Saw an interesting discussion in the NHL Prospects - Vasili Podkolzin thread comparing how some clubs were better at developing young players and which relied on local players as opposed to reaching out across the country or even to other countries for players.

Living in America and knowing very little about Russian hockey I was curious as to the differences amongst the various hockey organizations.

KHL is an unbalanced league (which isn't all that unusual in sports world). Generally top teams rely heavily on established veteran players (although that is starting to change a little).

It seems that the best places for Russian players to develop are mid-to-bottom-table teams. Those teams give more opportunities to younger players.

If you go through the list of top Russian players you will see a trend of clubs that they had their breakouts:

Panarin - Vityaz
Tarasenko and Zaitsev - Sibir
Kaprizov, Sorokin, Bob and Orlov - Novokuznetsk
Buchnevich - Severstal
Kuznetsov and Nichushkin - Traktor
Zub - Amur
Dadonov - Traktor and Donetsk
Gusev - Amur and Yugra
 

DivochLubo

Registered User
Feb 28, 2007
157
27
Think that can kill many of those talents, only few will get decent role and ice time on one team. It is step back from being a leader to short time and bottom line guys.
 

wings5

Registered User
Jan 6, 2008
7,443
931
The prospect development today: SKA is buying any junior capable of standing on his skates. Black hole of Russian hockey.

That has been the case the past few years. They will run into the same problem as the US national development program, only so much icetime to go around. Also only so many spots available on the KHL team. Would be great to see the talent spread around a little bit more, back to the days where all the Moscow teams were producing good young talent along with Traktor and Magnitka as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pierre Larouche

MaxV

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
4,888
590
New York, NY
All the talk about it being a bad idea for Russian players to go to CHL, I wish that wasn't the case. It would give talented Russian prospects more options.

Unfortunately, the cultural and different hockey philosophy shock is too much for a 17-year-old.
 

BlitzSnipe

Registered User
Dec 28, 2014
2,385
180
All the talk about it being a bad idea for Russian players to go to CHL, I wish that wasn't the case. It would give talented Russian prospects more options.

Unfortunately, the cultural and different hockey philosophy shock is too much for a 17-year-old.

Modern-day young Russians are, especially when not particularly affected by exaggerated patriotic propaganda, not very much different anymore from young North Americans, imo.
 

MaxV

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
4,888
590
New York, NY
Modern-day young Russians are, especially when not particularly affected by exaggerated patriotic propaganda, not very much different anymore from young North Americans, imo.

Yeah, but it is still a 17-year-old kid moving overseas.

Looking back at myself at 17, I would undoubtedly be a bust had I been a hockey prospect. I doubt that I am an outlier.
 

Yakushev72

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,550
372
Yeah, but it is still a 17-year-old kid moving overseas.

Looking back at myself at 17, I would undoubtedly be a bust had I been a hockey prospect. I doubt that I am an outlier.

There are very few cases of kids having gone to North America at age 17 or 18 and succeeded. The vast majority fail and are out of hockey shortly thereafter. There seems to be no way back. In Soviet days, when you played for clubs like CSKA or Dynamo, you had to undergo rigorous training and skills development in order to reach a suitable degree of excellence. In modern times, there is no requirement for excellence or skills development. If you show talent you can go, and very few have enough talent, in the end, to sustain a successful career.
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
326
USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
Didn't know where to put this, but a telegram channel "Селекционный Отдел" has a good write up on "blatnye" players on NT. The seem to be affiliated to Sports.ru, but who knows for real. They are addressing Aleksandr Gubanov (2005) in the article as a prime sample of ...
 

Caser

@RUSProspects
May 21, 2013
13,564
12,287
Riga/Yaroslavl
twitter.com
Didn't know where to put this, but a telegram channel "Селекционный Отдел" has a good write up on "blatnye" players on NT. The seem to be affiliated to Sports.ru, but who knows for real. They are addressing Aleksandr Gubanov (2005) in the article as a prime sample of ...

After all the crap they wrote about Michkov and Askarov, not to mention some pretty dumb stuff I wouldn't trust them a single bit. With that being said I don't know anything about Gubanov either, so who knows.
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
326
USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
Who knows, another telegram channel posted that it's 4 M rubles to play on an MHL team. They are not pulling this out of the hat, I don't think so.
 

Caser

@RUSProspects
May 21, 2013
13,564
12,287
Riga/Yaroslavl
twitter.com
Who knows, another telegram channel posted that it's 4 M rubles to play on an MHL team. They are not pulling this out of the hat, I don't think so.

"An MHL team" is a very abstract thing. I mean, let's face it, you're not getting on the MHL team that is in the KHL team's system with that kind of money, nepotism could get you there though, sure. As for MHL teams that are not related to the KHL teams I'd say it is possible, but again you got to have connections.
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
326
USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
"An MHL team" is a very abstract thing. I mean, let's face it, you're not getting on the MHL team that is in the KHL team's system with that kind of money, nepotism could get you there though, sure. As for MHL teams that are not related to the KHL teams I'd say it is possible, but again you got to have connections.

This is not my information, I am just "selling it for what I had bought it".
 

Caser

@RUSProspects
May 21, 2013
13,564
12,287
Riga/Yaroslavl
twitter.com
This is not my information, I am just "selling it for what I had bought it".

Yeah, I just meant that with only the "How much?" info and without the "Where?" and "How?" info it is both impossible to prove and actually it is pretty much useless (except for the hype, which is what these channels are badly needing). That's why I always have my grain of salt with me. :)
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
326
USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
Yeah, I just meant that with only the "How much?" info and without the "Where?" and "How?" info it is both impossible to prove and actually it is pretty much useless (except for the hype, which is what these channels are badly needing). That's why I always have my grain of salt with me. :)
If they add this info, they will be in trouble in so many ways, I think they are saying as much as they possibly can, without someone knocking on their door amidst the night. But if one wants to defeat their statements, yes what you are saying is legit.
 

Caser

@RUSProspects
May 21, 2013
13,564
12,287
Riga/Yaroslavl
twitter.com
If they add this info, they will be in trouble in so many ways, I think they are saying as much as they possibly can, without someone knocking on their door amidst the night. But if one wants to defeat their statements, yes what you are saying is legit.

It's not about wanting or not wanting, just I can't understand how the anonymous channel without any history of legit inside news and with a history of some crap can be trusted more than any poster here if we are talking about things that can't be proven.
 

MaxV

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
4,888
590
New York, NY
Looking at the top Russian prospects in recent and upcoming drafts, a big percentage are products of St Petersburg.

If you look at the history of Russian hockey, even during Soviet Union era, St Petersburg hasn't really produced a lot of talent. It has been very much an "untapped market".

But that seems to be changing.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
Looking at the top Russian prospects in recent and upcoming drafts, a big percentage are products of St Petersburg.

If you look at the history of Russian hockey, even during Soviet Union era, St Petersburg hasn't really produced a lot of talent. It has been very much an "untapped market".

But that seems to be changing.
Nearly none of them are products of St.Petersburg. They are imports of St.Petersburg.

So basically St.Petersburg does not produce prospects, but it is an attractive destination for prospects, no matter what the conspiracy theorists are going to post here, just wait. SKA pays(a lot), they have two MHL teams in the system, they have top notch facilities and coaches to work with prospects, they recently are giving them prospects opportunities to play in the big league quite a bit. And St.Petrsburg is a nice city to live it for all the reasons but the climate. It is understandable those guys easily agree to go to the SKA system.
 

cska78

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
12,755
326
USA
www.fc-rostov.ru
Looking at the top Russian prospects in recent and upcoming drafts, a big percentage are products of St Petersburg.

If you look at the history of Russian hockey, even during Soviet Union era, St Petersburg hasn't really produced a lot of talent. It has been very much an "untapped market".

But that seems to be changing.
Kasatovno, Gusarov, Drozdetskiy back in the day. There were some in the 90's who weren't bad as well. But yeah, today they are poaching prospects all over and its not very good for state of hockey overall, but for reasons posted above - easy for them to accomplish.
 

Yakushev72

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,550
372
Kasatovno, Gusarov, Drozdetskiy back in the day. There were some in the 90's who weren't bad as well. But yeah, today they are poaching prospects all over and its not very good for state of hockey overall, but for reasons posted above - easy for them to accomplish.

The absolute absence of hockey history from St. Petersburg reflects a lack of hockey organization and support for the sport. With a metropolitan population of over 7 million, about the same as Toronto, having to go back to the 1980-85 era to find world class players from the area shows that if you are a talented prospect from St. Petersburg who would like to make a name in hockey, you are likely just out of luck!
 

NJ Fan 12

Registered User
Jun 23, 2020
1,372
507
Was perusing Russian prospects and was caught by Dimitri Konstantinov; admittedly due primarily to his size and surname.

Where does Kapitan Stupino fit in terms of development?
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,414
4,769
burgh
question, how dose the vhl rank compared with n.a. hockey ? the pen's prospect tankov seems to be doing well but i have no idea what kind of level of team he is playing on.
 

NJ Fan 12

Registered User
Jun 23, 2020
1,372
507
question, how dose the vhl rank compared with n.a. hockey ? the pen's prospect tankov seems to be doing well but i have no idea what kind of level of team he is playing on.

Would imagine somewhere between AHL and ECHL. Like other second leagues in Europe, there is a pretty wide gap between the top clubs and the lower tier ones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Old Master

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->