Prospect Camps Dates & Discussion
- Thread starter flamebird
- Start date
Weird because he was listed as at the Maple Leafs camp too. Are you sure he's there?
Seems like Mike McKee isn't at Maple Leafs camp anymore either.
leoleo3535
Registered User
Hawks "change of philosophy" ---smaller camp invitees list (less non-drafted free agent or futures invittess),less scrimmages, is a logical change:
1. Hawks system is bursting with prospect depth--less NEED to evaluate a plethora of longshots just to fimd an improbable overlooked gem ..
2. THe switch to a DEVELOPMENT CAMP (with emphasis to those already in the system via the draft) is EXACTLY what many other NHL teams have done for years--rather than a "tournament camp" of mainly full game scrimmages to see draftees play with non-drafteds to see who gets invited to main camp in Sept. THE intermediate step of putting a ROOKIES TEAM in a ROOKIES TOURNAMENT with other NHL teams ROOKIES was lacking from the Hawks view of some of their young prospects for years till they sent a team to the Leafs-hosted Rookies Tournament last September.. I expect them to participate againthis Sept. in such a Tournament..
SO --WHEN you have the extra stage (ROOKIES TOURNAMENT) later in Sept.--- you do not need to emphasize scrimmages/games as much at this EARLY (july) DEVELOPMENT stage ---the stage format (Development Camp+Rookies tournament) model is followed by most NHl teams now--the Hawks were slow to go this route..THUS in the past they held just a 1-stage "Prospects Camp" needing lots of scrimmages and inviting a much bigger list of non-drafteds to fill out the #of squads needed to have 2 scrimmages a day for several straight days...
NOW-the Hawks only will have a scrimmage of 2 squads (only 46 players invited total) on just 2 days of camp--SAturday and Monday..
THis is therefore NOT "penny pinching"-but simply following formats most other NHL teams do..
3.Those drafteds from europe in 2010 and 2011 are there (Except the Russkie MAXIM SHALUNOV )--so there has been expense to fly them over (from 2010:RENSFELDT and ,NORDSTROM) and from 2011maybe DAHLBECK and MATTSSON were already in NA for the draft and stayed over-if not they too were flied over......ONLY the RUSSKIE--MAXIM SHALUNOV is not at this camp --so its not asif they saved by not getting all their euro young draftees over..
ALSO it is not just local kids and cheap NCAA guys invited for the non-drafteds...Nobody is paid for these development camps --so there is no savings if a majority of NCAA guys is invited over Jrs. --frafted or not...
IF it seems that more NCAA undrafteds appear than Jrs. undrafted as the free agent "invitees" --that is LOGICAL --ecause the NCAA undrafted are older and more likely to be further developed such that a few impresses enough they could earn a contract and turn pro for Rockford right away--OTHER undrafted NCAA guys may not be Jrs or Srs yet at college-if so they are not likely to leave school yet--but look on this as gaining more development opportunity and to liase with an NHL team for possiblrfuture employment in the next year or two when they do finish their Jr. or Sr. years..
STILL it is not as if the Hawks have excluded undrafted kids from Jrs...I note that MATT PETGRAVE (Owen Sound ) was invited and is at camp...The Hawks drafed his team-mate ANDREW SHAW in round 5 and probably wanted to draft PETGRAVE too but ran out of slots ( I too had them both as trafets as older players for the last coupleof rounds) .IF PETGRAVE shows well maybe the Hawks do sign himnow-or at least get an idea if they want to keep him in mind as a late round trget as a 20 yr old by the 2012 draft...
SO it is neither true that any NCAA kid drafted or not is cheaper to have in camp than any Jr. --NOR is is true that the majority of the undrafteds all were locals from Illinois ...A few happen to be local but not the vast majority of these...
SO I protest the besmirching of the Hawks Development Camp as any sort of penny pinching...it s JUST a change in philosophy -run a smaller camp of mostly already drafteds with some undraffted invitees from the NCA and Jr. ranks WHO ARE NOT JUST "LOCALS"...
Now I 'm not anyemployee of the Blackhawks -just a fan-but to post such garbage nonesensical allegations cannot go unchallenged.
THe other IMPLIED noneense is that the Hawks filled in with some sort of ungenuine
mere fill-ins from the undrafted invitee free agents..
I already pointed out that PETGRAVE was certinly a legit poossiblity as a late round selection -I'm sure te Hawks liked him as much as I did from what I saw of him in the OHL playoffs and Mem Cup...
While you might dispute CAL Heeter or Michael Clemente (2 goalies) as mere extra camp cannon fodder-I can't see how you would dispute the outstanding SCOTT GREENHAM (U. Alaska-Fairbanks) the old "geezer" (age 24) at this camp
as not a legit poossible "gem'" to be signed for immediate Rockford employment if he shows as well as expected.
THE there is the smallish but extremely talented D-man MAT BODIE of Union College --he willonly be a sph. this season--so it is unlikely hewould leave school so soon--BUT maybe the Hawks get a leg up in signing him in a year or two or three when he does leave schhool because they know each other via this camp invite..
So its not as if everyone of the undraftedsis some mere hamburger with no chance,which was the implication from any penny pinching charge--as if somehow
the Hawks --among all 30 teams would get ALL the best undrafted prospects if tey somehow spent more on a bigger camp invitee list...
the fact is that so very few undrafted willget a pro contract anyway and with30 teams -even if some use a BIG CAMP invittee list -it probably doesn;t change the fact that only a tiny few of who they invite of this free agent group will get a contract at some stge AND that of this tiny few it is likely all 30 NHL teams get an equal dispersion of 'THE BEST of this tiny few group ...So that if you get 1-3 of these possible "offered a contract" cabdidates at a camp-you are doing extremely well. To expectyou are going to get 4-6 such candidates if you add 23 more free agent invitees is ABSURD because because the realistic candidate pool for such contract offers is so limited...if we assume only 30-45 such cases at max as THE BEST candidates--then with 30 teams if you get 2or 3 at your camp you are doing exceptionaly well compared to many other teams...Adding 23 more free agents is probably not getting you anymore at the margin...BECAUSE not all of the best willchhose YOUR CAMP to attend.
THEREFORE all the charges against the Blachawks as running a penny pincher camp are BASELESS...
What hey are doing is running a camp more in line with what most NHL teams have been doing for some time now.
1. Hawks system is bursting with prospect depth--less NEED to evaluate a plethora of longshots just to fimd an improbable overlooked gem ..
2. THe switch to a DEVELOPMENT CAMP (with emphasis to those already in the system via the draft) is EXACTLY what many other NHL teams have done for years--rather than a "tournament camp" of mainly full game scrimmages to see draftees play with non-drafteds to see who gets invited to main camp in Sept. THE intermediate step of putting a ROOKIES TEAM in a ROOKIES TOURNAMENT with other NHL teams ROOKIES was lacking from the Hawks view of some of their young prospects for years till they sent a team to the Leafs-hosted Rookies Tournament last September.. I expect them to participate againthis Sept. in such a Tournament..
SO --WHEN you have the extra stage (ROOKIES TOURNAMENT) later in Sept.--- you do not need to emphasize scrimmages/games as much at this EARLY (july) DEVELOPMENT stage ---the stage format (Development Camp+Rookies tournament) model is followed by most NHl teams now--the Hawks were slow to go this route..THUS in the past they held just a 1-stage "Prospects Camp" needing lots of scrimmages and inviting a much bigger list of non-drafteds to fill out the #of squads needed to have 2 scrimmages a day for several straight days...
NOW-the Hawks only will have a scrimmage of 2 squads (only 46 players invited total) on just 2 days of camp--SAturday and Monday..
THis is therefore NOT "penny pinching"-but simply following formats most other NHL teams do..
3.Those drafteds from europe in 2010 and 2011 are there (Except the Russkie MAXIM SHALUNOV )--so there has been expense to fly them over (from 2010:RENSFELDT and ,NORDSTROM) and from 2011maybe DAHLBECK and MATTSSON were already in NA for the draft and stayed over-if not they too were flied over......ONLY the RUSSKIE--MAXIM SHALUNOV is not at this camp --so its not asif they saved by not getting all their euro young draftees over..
ALSO it is not just local kids and cheap NCAA guys invited for the non-drafteds...Nobody is paid for these development camps --so there is no savings if a majority of NCAA guys is invited over Jrs. --frafted or not...
IF it seems that more NCAA undrafteds appear than Jrs. undrafted as the free agent "invitees" --that is LOGICAL --ecause the NCAA undrafted are older and more likely to be further developed such that a few impresses enough they could earn a contract and turn pro for Rockford right away--OTHER undrafted NCAA guys may not be Jrs or Srs yet at college-if so they are not likely to leave school yet--but look on this as gaining more development opportunity and to liase with an NHL team for possiblrfuture employment in the next year or two when they do finish their Jr. or Sr. years..
STILL it is not as if the Hawks have excluded undrafted kids from Jrs...I note that MATT PETGRAVE (Owen Sound ) was invited and is at camp...The Hawks drafed his team-mate ANDREW SHAW in round 5 and probably wanted to draft PETGRAVE too but ran out of slots ( I too had them both as trafets as older players for the last coupleof rounds) .IF PETGRAVE shows well maybe the Hawks do sign himnow-or at least get an idea if they want to keep him in mind as a late round trget as a 20 yr old by the 2012 draft...
SO it is neither true that any NCAA kid drafted or not is cheaper to have in camp than any Jr. --NOR is is true that the majority of the undrafteds all were locals from Illinois ...A few happen to be local but not the vast majority of these...
SO I protest the besmirching of the Hawks Development Camp as any sort of penny pinching...it s JUST a change in philosophy -run a smaller camp of mostly already drafteds with some undraffted invitees from the NCA and Jr. ranks WHO ARE NOT JUST "LOCALS"...
Now I 'm not anyemployee of the Blackhawks -just a fan-but to post such garbage nonesensical allegations cannot go unchallenged.
THe other IMPLIED noneense is that the Hawks filled in with some sort of ungenuine
mere fill-ins from the undrafted invitee free agents..
I already pointed out that PETGRAVE was certinly a legit poossiblity as a late round selection -I'm sure te Hawks liked him as much as I did from what I saw of him in the OHL playoffs and Mem Cup...
While you might dispute CAL Heeter or Michael Clemente (2 goalies) as mere extra camp cannon fodder-I can't see how you would dispute the outstanding SCOTT GREENHAM (U. Alaska-Fairbanks) the old "geezer" (age 24) at this camp
as not a legit poossible "gem'" to be signed for immediate Rockford employment if he shows as well as expected.
THE there is the smallish but extremely talented D-man MAT BODIE of Union College --he willonly be a sph. this season--so it is unlikely hewould leave school so soon--BUT maybe the Hawks get a leg up in signing him in a year or two or three when he does leave schhool because they know each other via this camp invite..
So its not as if everyone of the undraftedsis some mere hamburger with no chance,which was the implication from any penny pinching charge--as if somehow
the Hawks --among all 30 teams would get ALL the best undrafted prospects if tey somehow spent more on a bigger camp invitee list...
the fact is that so very few undrafted willget a pro contract anyway and with30 teams -even if some use a BIG CAMP invittee list -it probably doesn;t change the fact that only a tiny few of who they invite of this free agent group will get a contract at some stge AND that of this tiny few it is likely all 30 NHL teams get an equal dispersion of 'THE BEST of this tiny few group ...So that if you get 1-3 of these possible "offered a contract" cabdidates at a camp-you are doing extremely well. To expectyou are going to get 4-6 such candidates if you add 23 more free agent invitees is ABSURD because because the realistic candidate pool for such contract offers is so limited...if we assume only 30-45 such cases at max as THE BEST candidates--then with 30 teams if you get 2or 3 at your camp you are doing exceptionaly well compared to many other teams...Adding 23 more free agents is probably not getting you anymore at the margin...BECAUSE not all of the best willchhose YOUR CAMP to attend.
THEREFORE all the charges against the Blachawks as running a penny pincher camp are BASELESS...
What hey are doing is running a camp more in line with what most NHL teams have been doing for some time now.
leoleo3535
Registered User
Interesting yet I fail to see how basically only inviting the kids on your street to play is not a $ saving measure.
Florida is doing the same......very few others are restricting invitees to locals.
Lundell4Prez
Yandle = Bad
- Jul 5, 2008
- 6,269
- 520
Why would we invite guys who aren't part of our organization when we have a million prospects...? We are bringing Donskoi from Finland, Gayduchenko from Russia...
leoleo3535
Registered User
Fair enough yet most teams choose to bring in many outsiders in an effort to better their team.
Each to their own.
Doug Height
Okposwag
They're not just bringing unsigned prospects either. They have 2 guys who they signed as UFAs that will be there (Hazen and Luciani) plus they have another 5 players who played in the AHL last season (Jenks, Robak, Timmins, Comrie & Selleck).
They just have the depth now that they dont really need to bring any outsiders in to better their team. They did that by having enough draft picks in the last 2 yrs to equate to 4 drafts.
I recall one year one of the guys at the Sabres camp did three dev camps in a row. Talk about on-ice work! It's possible he went to parts of more than one, it's happened before.
Precisely. It's a nice gesture for locals to come into these, helps grow the game locally as something for local guys to shoot for. And in many cases, it gives a team a chance to work with a guy and find out if they might want something down the road. Buffalo has gotten three depth guys out of their Dev camps in recent years - Brian Roloff, David Leggio, and Mike Kostka. All had camps two or three years before playing for them in the AHL. We suspect Wudrick, Parker, and Varone are in for open auditions for available forward slots for them this year.
leoleo3535
Registered User
Coolburn;34775047[B said:
We all can read their camp roster and where the players fit as property or FA is clear.
I am just saying unlike most teams (and all teams have the same roster counts) FL. is choosing not to look beyond their front porch.
leoleo3535
Registered User
Jared Ramsden
Registered User
A feature story on Boston Bruins prospects and Twitter: http://insidehockey.com/bruins-prospects-a-tweet-above-the-rest
massivegoonery
Registered User
Sabres wrapped up their Summer Dev Camp today. A number of the invitees looked good -- John McCarron, Steven Beyers, Michael Houser and Nick Bailen in particular for me in limited viewings. Beyers scored again in their intra-squad scrimmage today and was generally dangerous, quick, and in the play. Varone looks like he could be in line for a contract offer with the lack of center depth in Rochester. Wudrick and Parker had flashes, and I wouldn't put it past the team to have one or the other at camp this fall.
R S
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2006
- 25,468
- 10
I wasn't there so I can't comment on McNabb's performance, but Jacobs missed the whole camp recovering from a shoulder injury.
Similarly, Lieuwen watched the entire on-ice portion as he recovers from a sports hernia he suffered late in the year.
McNabb rattled Szydlowski today as the physical intensity picked up after Marcus Foligno blasted Corey Tropp at the blueline with an impressive open-ice hit. (Tropp didn't show any worse for wear, didn't miss a shift and scored to complete his hattrick in the game later in the third period.). Brayden didn't get to show any time on the point as they weren't using PP/PK to settle infractions but instead ran penalty shots. He did go in the shootout they ran at the end, trying a forehand-backhand that Connor Knapp stopped.
As for the other current or former dub guys:
- Sundher was solid throughout camp and seems to have added mass in his upper body. He was probably the second fastest forward out there behind Catenacci in the early drills.
- Parker and Wudrick looked good at times and the knack for being around the net hasn't left either.
- Matt MacKenzie was his solid, unspectacular self (which I like in a defensive defenseman).
- Fienhage was there, which bodes well for him although he's still not signed to a deal with the team and the suspicion is that he'll have to work up from the ECHL if they sign a vet for the AHL squad.
- I really like Pysyk's game. I was as unsure of the pick at the time as anyone, but he's just such a damn smart kid with very good wheels. He was tough to beat in the one-on-one and two-on-two drills earlier in the week. He also looks markedly bigger than last camp, so if he's filling out and still maintaining the speed, EOK and hopefully the Nats will clearly benefit.
- Riley Boychuk scored today in the shootout drill and got the biggest cheer from his bench. Clearly well, liked as a teammate.
- Tyler Ennis was the "vet" here this year (much like Tyler Myers was last year) and lead by example all over the place. Great humor, he continues to cut-up with his teammates and lighten things up out there. Fun.
That covers the 'dub guys, RS.
Picked from http://wild.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=568019&navid=DL|MIN|home
Not a big deal but the date is wrong on first page
. Anyways most of the interested guys knew that I think...
ScottyK
Hi, I'm mat.
Brock Anton
flames #badnwagon
Second day of Canes camp concluded.
Pics, they are copyrighted so I'll just post the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbk-ltd/sets/72157627165452518/with/5926815270/
Interesting article on 2nd Round Pick, Victor Rask:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/11/1337947/rask-an-intriguing-prospect-for.html
From what I've read, the most impressive so far have been:
1. F Gregory Hofmann (If he puts some weight on, he could be a real keeper. Fast, fluid and elusive.)
2. D Ryan Murphy (Defense was considered "ninja-like.")
3. F Victor Rask (Showed great skill with puck, very confident player.)
http://www.canescountry.com/2011/7/11/2269380/hurricanes-conditioning-camp-first-impressions
Pics, they are copyrighted so I'll just post the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbk-ltd/sets/72157627165452518/with/5926815270/
Interesting article on 2nd Round Pick, Victor Rask:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/11/1337947/rask-an-intriguing-prospect-for.html
From what I've read, the most impressive so far have been:
1. F Gregory Hofmann (If he puts some weight on, he could be a real keeper. Fast, fluid and elusive.)
2. D Ryan Murphy (Defense was considered "ninja-like.")
3. F Victor Rask (Showed great skill with puck, very confident player.)
http://www.canescountry.com/2011/7/11/2269380/hurricanes-conditioning-camp-first-impressions
Watch out for Beyers.
I don't like these kind of people who claim they know NHLers and whatnot but I've grown up with Steve and he's always been the most dangerous player on the ice. He's got unbelievable hands and hockey IQ. His problem has always been work ethic which has resulted in him being injured a lot. By this I mean that he never really worked out and has completely relied on his skills.
This season, his Jr. A coach from here in Orangeville, Dale Hawerchuk, took Beyers along with him to Barrie. He did fairly decent in his first season, but was once again injured a lot. This summer has been quite interesting working out with him. He's ridiculously determined and it's really showing lately. He's already leaps and bounds stronger than he's ever been. I don't think he'll be as injured as he usually is.
Expect a big season out of him.
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