Prospect and Marlies Thread: 2017 - 2018 (continued)

[TheMadHatTrick]

Can someone tell me why Dermott is struggling points wise so far this season?

I'm wondering the same thing for all our dmen except Lij. Is it a system thing or are they not getting PP time? I mean Nielsen not having even 1 goal after 14 last year seems odd, and Dermott is on pace to finish with fewer points as well.

 

[4thline]

oh that's great I was worried it would like 80% pp points. My fav big guy is rasanen for some reason

Of the CHL towers Rasanen had by far the best draft day pedigree, and has IMO the most upside and may also be the safest bet to make it. Middleton next (he was on Canada's radar for both U17 and U18) with not as much offensive upside but almost as good of bet.

Gordeev and Mattinen were pure tool based hail mary's.

 

[Walshy7]

Of the CHL towers Rasanen had by far the best draft day pedigree, and has IMO the most upside and may also be the safest bet to make it. Middleton next (he was on Canada's radar for both U17 and U18) with not as much offensive upside but almost as good of bet.

Gordeev and Mattinen were pure tool based hail mary's.

I think ive seen some posters say Rasanen has a bit of a problem with his skating hopefully it can fix it a find one of these gem big dmen

 

[4thline]

jeez, big production bump for Middleton. I'm not going to take that as a sign that he has offensive upside, but the nice thing that it does (if he sustains) is removes the "even defensive dmen in the NHL were offensively productive in junior" criticism, makes him less of a unicorn to make the NHL

The player I liked to compare him to is a meaner more effective Hal Gill, in current terms a peak of a bigger Josh Manson. Manson's U20 year was spent in the BCHL

 

[Randy Randerson]

The player I liked to compare him to is a meaner more effective Hal Gill, in current terms a peak of a bigger Josh Manson. Manson's U20 year was spent in the BCHL

that would be an absolute Godsend....he could be what Vancouver thought they had in Tryamkin

 

[Not My Tempo]

how did liljegren play last night? got an assist I saw,

My buddy watched the game and said he looked great, super confident and you wouldn’t have been able to tell he just came back from injury

 

[Walshy7]

My buddy watched the game and said he looked great, super confident and you wouldn’t have been able to tell he just came back from injury

nice, this kid is our most exciting prospect. I cant wait to see him in the NHL. I have said it before with his skating its near impossible for him not to be a NHLer but he keeps the scoring up we got a top4 RHD at pick 17 unreal value

 

[Randy Randerson]

nice, this kid is our most exciting prospect. I cant wait to see him in the NHL. I have said it before with his skating its near impossible for him not to be a NHLer but he keeps the scoring up we got a top4 RHD at pick 17 unreal value

honestly think "top 4" undersells his upside. I think he could be considered on par with the prospect than Rielly was by the end of the year if he scores at a similar pace to what he's doing right now over a full season and doesn't make dumb plays all the time. Based on what we've seen so far I think he'll be considered on track to be a top pair type talent if he keeps going

 

[Walshy7]

honestly think "top 4" undersells his upside. I think he could be considered on par with the prospect than Rielly was by the end of the year if he scores at a similar pace to what he's doing right now over a full season and doesn't make dumb plays all the time. Based on what we've seen so far I think he'll be considered on track to be a top pair type talent if he keeps going

oh for sure, I didn't want to go over the top but he for sure has top pair upside. Id almost say he will be a lock for a top4 D, that skating is just beautiful to watch and he has the IQ to go with.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Of the CHL towers Rasanen had by far the best draft day pedigree, and has IMO the most upside and may also be the safest bet to make it. Middleton next (he was on Canada's radar for both U17 and U18) with not as much offensive upside but almost as good of bet.

Gordeev and Mattinen were pure tool based hail mary's.

Mattinen has still been very good for Flint regardless. Gordeev has a high minus, but really those two are the only quality defensemen they have... What do you expect? I mean their 3rd best defenseman has played 2 games, and the rest have been a lot worse than expected. Gordeev and Mattinen are the only ones who can do anything.

We have another year on Gordeev anyways. Mattinen likely becomes our next Desrocher, which is unfortunate because if he had a bit more support, he'd probably earn an ELC.

 

[4thline]

@SeaOfBlue It was a factual statement, no need to get defensive about it. They're not the same calibre of prospects or OHL defenders as Rasanen and Middleton. They were 3rd and 6th round OHL picks respectively, didn't earn full time spots in u17 and were bottom pair ohl defenders in their draft years. No National or even Provincial level interest/ pedigree. Tool based hail mary's hoping for something to click.
Mattinen's taken a step and is having an adequate year for a U20, wouldn't mind keeping him in the organization. Gordeev has monstrous upside with his skating and hands but his inconsistency and defensive play have been part of the problem in Flint when he's supposed to be part of the solution. But you're right, we have another year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I didn't even really mean to refer to the first part, only the second part. I'm taking Rasanen and Middleton over the other two any day of the week.

I just hope the other two do not go unnoticed simply because they play on a bad team. Although it's been working for Mattinen. -2 and 14 points in 23 games on a crappy team, he's really grown as a player. Still needs some work though. I wish he and Gordeev played on the same pairing. The rest of Flint's defense would be terrible, but at least that line should be able to maintain handle much of the high end competition to a decent degree.

 

[Barilko14]

I didn't even really mean to refer to the first part, only the second part. I'm taking Rasanen and Middleton over the other two any day of the week.

I just hope the other two do not go unnoticed simply because they play on a bad team. Although it's been working for Mattinen. -2 and 14 points in 23 games on a crappy team, he's really grown as a player. Still needs some work though. I wish he and Gordeev played on the same pairing. The rest of Flint's defense would be terrible, but at least that line should be able to maintain handle much of the high end competition to a decent degree.

Not much faith in our player development crew?
Pretty sure if they pass on giving either guy a contract it will because they likely don't have NHL upside, not because they've been unnoticed.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not much faith in our player development crew?
Pretty sure if they pass on giving either guy a contract it will because they likely don't have NHL upside, not because they've been unnoticed.

It's tough to know when a lot of defensemen, especially bigger ones like Mattinen and Gordeev, take a while to develop. Both have NHL upside, otherwise why would we have drafted them in the first place, but at the same time both seem like 5 year projects... That we need to make a decision on after 2.

 

[Barilko14]

It's tough to know when a lot of defensemen, especially bigger ones like Mattinen and Gordeev, take a while to develop. Both have NHL upside, otherwise why would we have drafted them in the first place, but at the same time both seem like 5 year projects... That we need to make a decision on after 2.

CHL is best feeder system in the world, it's not like this is a problem unique to the Leafs. If they get an ELC I'll be pretty happy, but if not then I trust the staff here enough that they did they're due diligence and likely don't have the necessary upside.

No team in the league is going 10 for 10 in the draft, most prospects bust, these guys are all long shots to begin with.

 

[Jozay]

Nice goal

 

[taurine330]

Nice goal

A real thing of beauty. Could he replace Bozie?

 

[LeafChief]

Still no games for Greenway. Weird.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Johnsson and Timashov seem really comfortable with life in Toronto.

They're both doing well.

 

[Trapper]

@SeaOfBlue It was a factual statement, no need to get defensive about it. They're not the same calibre of prospects or OHL defenders as Rasanen and Middleton. They were 3rd and 6th round OHL picks respectively, didn't earn full time spots in u17 and were bottom pair ohl defenders in their draft years. No National or even Provincial level interest/ pedigree. Tool based hail mary's hoping for something to click.
Mattinen's taken a step and is having an adequate year for a U20, wouldn't mind keeping him in the organization. Gordeev has monstrous upside with his skating and hands but his inconsistency and defensive play have been part of the problem in Flint when he's supposed to be part of the solution. But you're right, we have another year.

Then we always have the option to move him from D to forward. Sounds like a good system power forward potential.

 

[Walshy7]

Then we always have the option to move him from D to forward. Sounds like a good system power forward potential.

wasn't he a forward up until mid last year anyway? I think he at least alternated between both, until he was traded and they kept him at D

 

[Trapper]

wasn't he a forward up until mid last year anyway? I think he at least alternated between both, until he was traded and they kept him at D

That's right. He played LW/D in Hamilton and then made the full transition when traded to Flint. So wherever the best opportunity presents itself you take it. Like Buff. W/D.

 

[Walshy7]

That's right. He played LW/D in Hamilton and then made the full transition when traded to Flint. So wherever the best opportunity presents itself you take it. Like Buff. W/D.

well we aren't really strong on LW either might be a nice big 3rd or 4th line defensively responsible winger

 

[Trapper]

well we aren't really strong on LW either might be a nice big 3rd or 4th line defensively responsible winger

Either that or is a team like Anaheim interested in a JVR or a Max Jones type deal? Maybe not this exactly but something similar in regards to asset return.

 

[Jeypic]

I'm wondering the same thing for all our dmen except Lij. Is it a system thing or are they not getting PP time? I mean Nielsen not having even 1 goal after 14 last year seems odd, and Dermott is on pace to finish with fewer points as well.

I think it’s a combination of what works best, with a slight emphasis on development.

Last year Nielsen and dermott needed to get confident in the ahl. Give them lots of scoring chances on the powerplay.. make them feel like they belong. This year that’s what liljegren needs, and is also better suited for.

For Nielsen and dermott, they’ve had a year to gain confidence in the league and grow in size. They’re better suited to take on the tougher assignments then they would have been last year, better chance of success. For the role we’d want from them in the nhl, this should be the focus for them right now.