Pronman Ranks Detroit 13th in Organizational Prospect Rankings

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think it is interesting that Pronman also downgrade Zadina a tier from last year's rankings which also probably impacts our rankings. He does weight elite talent more and Zadina has fallen from Elite NHL Prospect his second listing to third tier High End NHL Prospect.

 

[Frk It]

We all should be very careful how we rate our prospects in relation to what league they are in.

It makes a big difference.

McIsaac and Veleno look the best last year... although they stayed in juniors. They are playing mostly 16 and 17 year olds. They are supposed to dominate them. So GJ I guess... but this does not at all mean either will do well in the AHL. Which is a much harder league to play in.

Equivalently, Zadina going there at 18 is very much out of character, he advanced very fast and his stats were "subpar". But I think his age and what league he is in is a large factor here.

His weaknesses were especially exposed, meanwhile Veleno and McIsaac's weaknesses have not been shown at all. Not that they do not have them, but their competition is inferior.

Yeah, in terms of projections, usually a player’s draft season carries a lot more weight than their +1 or +2 year.

Good thing for Veleno is both his draft year and his +1 year were good relative to his peers in the league he plays in.

But ultimately, it is a good idea to temper yourself until (at least) these players jump up to the AHL. We have had plenty of guys tear up juniors and then stall out in the AHL. The reason I think Veleno and McIsaac will transition better than some of our former prospects is: 1) They are both very physically mature, and 2). They are both very versatile.

 

[BinCookin]

^^ Oh i'm hoping for them. Just not banking on it. Come on boys, keep developing. Kick ass

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Is it just me or does Veleno seem like the most important F prospect (in terms of impact, not necessarily stats) to our future. A budding 2-way (50-60pt+) 2C once he finds his NHL game & we can have a good top 6 & decent to good top 9.

 

[Frk It]

Is it just me or does Veleno seem like the most important F prospect (in terms of impact, not necessarily stats) to our future A budding 2-way 2C & we can have a good top 6 & decent to good top 9.

I think Zadina is, for sure. Zadina has much higher expectations, given he was drafted higher and had more hype when drafted.

Veleno doesn’t even have to become our top center, we already have Larkin. Veleno becoming a solid 2C/3C is important, but not nearly as important as Zadina becoming a top line forward.

 

[Ezekial]

Wow

f*** Pronman. How could you possibly downgrade Veleno?

 

[Gniwder]

I think Zadina is, for sure. Zadina has much higher expectations, given he was drafted higher and had more hype when drafted.

Veleno doesn’t even have to become our top center, we already have Larkin. Veleno becoming a solid 2C/3C is important, but not nearly as important as Zadina becoming a top line forward.

Veleno upped his expectation last year whereas the expectations for Zadina are tempered a bit by his performance last year. Obviously different levels of competition, but people always seem to be more optimistic about the unknown, in this case Veleno.

To be competitive, the team really needs both of them to pan out as top 6 forwards so it really doesn't matter which one we rank higher.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Veleno upped his expectation last year whereas the expectations for Zadina are tempered a bit by his performance last year. Obviously different levels of competition, but people always seem to be more optimistic about the unknown, in this case Veleno.

To be competitive, the team really needs both of them to pan out as top 6 forwards so it really doesn't matter which one we rank higher.

I really like Veleno, I think significant portions of our fan-base are a little too far out over their skis right now in terms of expectations for him. I would be happy if he had Zadina's number last year in the AHL this year while playing good two-way hockey.

Playing pro hockey in NA in the AHL and NHL is a little harder than I think most are making it out to be at times. Especially in terms of NHL placement I would expect very little out of him if he did make the team this year.

We will see, just because Pronman doesn't like your prospect enough doesn't mean the guy is an idiot. I think he answers questions when you address him on some of these areas and he gives an honest assessment. I have gone at it with him on Cholowski for a couple years now and I think he acknowledged his short comings in terms of offensive assessment, but he always defended his feelings on the guy when asked. That is his job, he doesn't have to like our system or one of our players as much as the team's fans do. There are portions of the scouting world that question Veleno's ability to create offense in pro and him ripping apart junior on one of the four juggernaut power teams in Q probably hasn't dramatically changed some of those guys opinions.

I think he has #2C stuff and I like him, but I am worried about expectations. Zadina didn't have a poor season, he just didn't blow the doors off. That is hardly an indictment at the age and significant step up in competition and needed consistency to play in the third best hockey league in the world.

Missing on Zadina would be a huge blow to the rebuild in my opinion. I am with @Frk It, he is the most important guy on this list. He is supposed to be an elite winger that has elite goal scoring and high level playmaking. I am curious to see where he is at after the summer. Both guys are hopefully really big pieces though.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

He put joe hicketts way ahead of lindstrom lol and he has lindstrom like barely being an nhl player if he even gets there .

f*** pronman

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Is it just me or does Veleno seem like the most important F prospect (in terms of impact, not necessarily stats) to our future. A budding 2-way (50-60pt+) 2C once he finds his NHL game & we can have a good top 6 & decent to good top 9.

We need him to be a stud player desperately, he doesn’t who do we have at C ? And next draft lafraniere and Raymond are wingers . We can’t rush veleno he needs to be a star player

 

[MBH]

Is it just me or does Veleno seem like the most important F prospect (in terms of impact, not necessarily stats) to our future. A budding 2-way (50-60pt+) 2C once he finds his NHL game & we can have a good top 6 & decent to good top 9.

Yeah. But Seider, Cholo and Hronek are key, too.
If Seider isn't first pairing, and Cholo and Hronek aren't at least top 4... our rebuild is going to take a long, long time.
Like... 5-8 years.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Yeah. But Seider, Cholo and Hronek are key, too.
If Seider isn't first pairing, and Cholo and Hronek aren't at least top 4... our rebuild is going to take a long, long time.
Like... 5-8 years.

Obviously. That's why I said "F prospect".

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah. But Seider, Cholo and Hronek are key, too.
If Seider isn't first pairing, and Cholo and Hronek aren't at least top 4... our rebuild is going to take a long, long time.
Like... 5-8 years.

Well basically every failed first round pick sets the team back one year., unless the team fleeces Vegas again. I'm basically counting Veleno and Hronek as first round picks, because the expectations are so high. AS it stands right now, playoffs are still 3 - 4 year away, minimum.

 

[SCD]

Pronman, like most prospect analysts, over value offensive ability in their rankings. This is especially true with defenseman.

A kid that can shut down the opponents top line can have a long career.

 

[Henkka]

We all should be very careful how we rate our prospects in relation to what league they are in.

It makes a big difference.

McIsaac and Veleno look the best last year... although they stayed in juniors. They are playing mostly 16 and 17 year olds. They are supposed to dominate them. So GJ I guess... but this does not at all mean either will do well in the AHL. Which is a much harder league to play in.
.

More of, they did play against 18-19-20-21 year olds as 18-year olds. They were supposed to dominate, and they... DOMINATED. Veleno in points + defensive duties, and McIsaac in physical play, shut-down role.

Top lines at junior leagues play against top lines, which are full of older junior aged players. It's not that Veleno just get can easy matchup against a 16-year old at every night. That's foolish to believe.

 

[Winger98]

We need him to be a stud player desperately, he doesn’t who do we have at C ? And next draft lafraniere and Raymond are wingers . We can’t rush veleno he needs to be a star player

I wouldn't dismiss Rasmussen yet. If there were any realistic expectations that he'd be able to step into the NHL at 19 and be a respectable top9 center, I think he's gone before we pick. And playing the first year or two at wing is something Detroit has made a habit of with decent center prospects from Z to Flip to Larkin. The guy has experience at the position, and he's got time on his side.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I wouldn't dismiss Rasmussen yet. If there were any realistic expectations that he'd be able to step into the NHL at 19 and be a respectable top9 center, I think he's gone before we pick. And playing the first year or two at wing is something Detroit has made a habit of with decent center prospects from Z to Flip to Larkin. The guy has experience at the position, and he's got time on his side.

Really depends on our 2020 draft. I can see the third line C first PP specialist, but we might get more utility out of a top 6 winger that doesn't have the typical high center position allowing him his down low terror eventually as he gets stronger down low. But say we get Byfield it makes his future pretty clear in my opinion. What we need is the next step out of Ras this year and I think he will improve. I still like him a lot, the NHL is a very hard league to play in as a 19 year old, but he has the ability to be a big weapon for us down the road in my opinion.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

I wouldn't dismiss Rasmussen yet. If there were any realistic expectations that he'd be able to step into the NHL at 19 and be a respectable top9 center, I think he's gone before we pick. And playing the first year or two at wing is something Detroit has made a habit of with decent center prospects from Z to Flip to Larkin. The guy has experience at the position, and he's got time on his side.

Ya I’m not sold on the guy , never liked the pick on draft day and wished we had drafted a dman since it’s been our most pressing need for years, I hope he proves me wrong but I see him as a bottom 6

 

[Fear]

Pronman, like most prospect analysts, over value offensive ability in their rankings. This is especially true with defenseman.

A kid that can shut down the opponents top line can have a long career.

That's because it's so much harder to predict how defensive ability will translate.

Teams have gotten burned with pick like Luke Schenn and Griffin Reinhart trying to chase shutdown ability

 

[Henkka]

That's because it's so much harder to predict how defensive ability will translate.

That's also a way to create hype, when he was the guy who predicted some small skill player to pan out, and when that happens more regularly on his lists than others. When looking his lists afterwards, it looks like he is "finding gems".

 

[Winger98]

Really depends on our 2020 draft. I can see the third line C first PP specialist, but we might get more utility out of a top 6 winger that doesn't have the typical high center position allowing him his down low terror eventually as he gets stronger down low. But say we get Byfield it makes his future pretty clear in my opinion. What we need is the next step out of Ras this year and I think he will improve. I still like him a lot, the NHL is a very hard league to play in as a 19 year old, but he has the ability to be a big weapon for us down the road in my opinion.

I think Byfield will be gone by the time we pick at 6th. I like Rasmussen more now than when we picked him. I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time, I'm still not sold on him being a center at all, but he had some really good flashes this past year and it seems like people are too ready to write him off as the next Sheahan. Regardless of position, I think he's a top9 guy going forward who will help us roll multiple lines that can find the net.

Ya I’m not sold on the guy , never liked the pick on draft day and wished we had drafted a dman since it’s been our most pressing need for years, I hope he proves me wrong but I see him as a bottom 6

I think it depends how you're building your bottom6. I think he's more than a defensive grinder, and I'm hoping the Wings eventually try to run three lines capable of putting the other team on their heels and the puck in the net. That's why above I say I think he's a top9 guy. At worst, I think he's a forward you can move from one scoring line to another as needed and work there. At best, he'll be able to center one of the top lines and drive the offense.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

I think Byfield will be gone by the time we pick at 6th. I like Rasmussen more now than when we picked him. I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time, I'm still not sold on him being a center at all, but he had some really good flashes this past year and it seems like people are too ready to write him off as the next Sheahan. Regardless of position, I think he's a top9 guy going forward who will help us roll multiple lines that can find the net.



I think it depends how you're building your bottom6. I think he's more than a defensive grinder, and I'm hoping the Wings eventually try to run three lines capable of putting the other team on their heels and the puck in the net. That's why above I say I think he's a top9 guy. At worst, I think he's a forward you can move from one scoring line to another as needed and work there. At best, he'll be able to center one of the top lines and drive the offense.

Picking at #9 we should be targeting a top 6 player or top pair dman and considering our back end has been horrible for years there were some nice dmen available and we passed on him just to take a guy with “size”

I’d he turns out to be a 3c getting 30-35 pts he’s a bust of a pick considering we were picking top 10

We need him to be a Ppl specialist who gets 25-30 goals

 

[Ezekial]

Rasmussen was targeted to be a top 6 player... He still has plenty of top 6 potential.

 

[MBH]

Ras could still be a top 6 winger...but he's got a lot of work to do.
All those "skates well" scouting reports need to die in a fire.

 

[wingfan]

Picking at #9 we should be targeting a top 6 player or top pair dman and considering our back end has been horrible for years there were some nice dmen available and we passed on him just to take a guy with “size”

I’d he turns out to be a 3c getting 30-35 pts he’s a bust of a pick considering we were picking top 10

We need him to be a Ppl specialist who gets 25-30 goals

Dude. He's legit played one inconsistent season in the NHL as a teenager on one of the shittiest teams in the league and still put up 20 points in 60 games. I wasn't a fan of the pick at all but I'm not ready to call him a bust.