Rumor: Progress on Mantha deal being made - shorter term than anticipated?

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

but if that is the case then I don't see a reason for a short term contract? Unless he thinks he will get better money if he is able to put up some better seasons.

That's the only reasoning i can think off, That maybe he can stay healthy for 3 years and put up good numbers. And then try and cash in when he hits 29 on a longer term extension. Only problem there is there's just to much risk involved of him staying healthy and putting up 70 to 80 points per season in that time span.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

+

Nice. And then after we've spent $40M in cap on Barkov/Werenski/Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi, we can pay Seider/Zadina/Hronek/Raymond/2021 Lottery in $5 Hot-N-Readys.

Barkov/Werenski/Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi = ~$40m+

Raymond & Seider = ELC.

Hronek & Zadina bridge.

Cheap bridge: Ras, Veleno, Lindstrom.

Fabbri may price himself out of Det, or be an affordable mid-6'er.

Berggren/Johansson/McIsaac/Tuomisto= ELC.

Goalies ? $

We have the best GM surrounded by some of the best pros/hockey execs. If he comes close to what he did in TB, we'll have a nice 5-7+ yr competitive window. Rinse, repeat.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

+

Barkov/Werenski/Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi = ~$40m+

Raymond & Seider = ELC.

Hronek & Zadina bridge.

Cheap bridge: Ras, Veleno, Lindstrom.

Fabbri may price himself out of Det, or be an affordable mid-6'er.

Berggren/Johansson/McIsaac/Tuomisto= ELC.

Goalies ? $

We have the best GM surrounded by some of the best pros/hockey execs. If he comes close to what he did in TB, we'll have a nice 5-7+ yr competitive window. Rinse, repeat.

You proposed 7 year deals for all of Barkov/Werenski/Larkin... Raymond and Seider will not be on ELCs by the time those expire, and Hronek and Zadina sure as hell wont be on bridge deals.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

You proposed 7 year deals for all of Barkov/Werenski/Larkin... Raymond and Seider will not be on ELCs by the time those expire, and Hronek and Zadina sure as hell wont be on bridge deals.

Re: "Raymond and Seider will not be on ELCs by the time those expire, and Hronek and Zadina sure as hell wont be on bridge deals." ...I never said they would be.


I was referring to the first few years obviously. Then Ray & Mo are on bridges. If Hronek/Zadina price themselves out after their bridges we can deal them beforehand, rinse, repeat. Or maybe we deal Barkov/Mantha/Bert in that timeframe, that's 7-9 years from today (2022 offseason is when the Barkov & Werenski offers take place) etc. Mantha and/or Bert probably won't be on the team after 7yrs. It can be done. Also 6-8 from now the cap will be $100M+ ??

 

[ricky0034]

Remove Laine from it and insert any premium piece. I wouldn't hold off on making a deal now that will pay off for us for the next 5-8 years with the blind hope of making a different move two or three years from now. Those future moves will still be there to be pursued if they are there at all. If we pass up move after move because of what might happen several years from now the most likely scenario is that we end up with nothing.

I think people are way too hung up on preserving cap space and creating this static roster with no movement in it for the next ten years where we slot in blue chip after blue chip.

sometimes ending up with nothing is preferable

I remember literally last offseason there were quite a few people around here convinced that the Wings NEEDED to hurry up and trade Winnipeg whatever it took to get Trouba and make sure he signed here

....don't hear a lot about that anymore

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

sometimes ending up with nothing is preferable

I remember literally last offseason there were quite a few people around here convinced that the Wings NEEDED to hurry up and trade Winnipeg whatever it took to get Trouba and make sure he signed here

....don't hear a lot about that anymore

I remember very few of the Trouba pursuits being massive in nature, there was a limit most had capped on it and it never included our first rounders, so Winnipeg's offer from the Rangers wasn't something this board beat really.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

sometimes ending up with nothing is preferable

I remember literally last offseason there were quite a few people around here convinced that the Wings NEEDED to hurry up and trade Winnipeg whatever it took to get Trouba and make sure he signed here

....don't hear a lot about that anymore

That's because we drafted Mo 1 week later. 1st (top 3-5 protected) + Cholowski was what I was willing to offer (before draft).

Yzerman is a cool customer, he won't rattle easily.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Re: "Raymond and Seider will not be on ELCs by the time those expire, and Hronek and Zadina sure as hell wont be on bridge deals." ...I never said they would be.


I was referring to the first few years obviously. Then Ray & Mo are on bridges. If Hronek/Zadina price themselves out after their bridges we can deal them beforehand, rinse, repeat. Or maybe we deal Barkov/Mantha/Bert in that timeframe, that's 7-9 years from today (2022 offseason is when the Barkov & Werenski offers take place) etc. Mantha and/or Bert probably won't be on the team after 7yrs. It can be done. Also 6-8 from now the cap will be $100M+ ??

It's working well for Toronto!

And $100M+ cap in 6 years would require it to raise $5M/year like clockwork after the freeze ends. Good luck with that.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

It's working well for Toronto!

Dubas isn't fit to carry Yzerman's jockstrap.

Remember SY navigated the cap for the last 7+ yrs with TB & only now they're in potential danger of losing a younger core piece, but even that is not a foregone conclusion.

Heck, Stan Bowman did a good job overall til ~2-3 yrs ago (trading Hjalmarsson was bad).

Pens GM's did the same.

What's your masterful solution?


BTW factoring in TVM, $10m Barkov, $9.5 Werenski, $9 Larkin will be ~30% of cap & are likely to look like bargain contracts by year ~3-7 (assuming good health/productivity). F'ing Taylor Hall would've gotten $9 from some idiot GM & he's a W, with 1 MVP season....there are other examples, feel free to look.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Dubas isn't fit to carry Yzerman's jockstrap.

And yet you want Yzerman to follow Dubas' method of spending half the cap on his core...

That was kinda the whole point.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

And yet you want Yzerman to follow Dubas' method of spending half the cap on his core...

That was kinda the whole point.

I've already wasted enough time explaining the basics of navigating the cap, some tweaks & adjustments are likely, but the plan is solid. Pay your elite C's & D (but don't overpay), get good value from Top6F/Top4D on their contract after bridge (Mantha/Bert), more value from Top6/Top4 D during their bridge & ELC's etc. etc.... 4th liners & #5-7 Dmen should be b/w NHL minimum - $1.5max.

What's your masterful solution?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

What's your masterful solution?

Probably not tying up $40M in five guys when our real core pieces are still to come and are going to need secondary contracts.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Probably not tying up $40M in five guys when our real core pieces are still to come and are going to need secondary contracts.

edited #136, reread it. I'm done with the debate, have a good one.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

edited #136, reread it. I'm done with the debate, have a good one.

All I read is that you still think Yzerman should follow Dubas' plan even though you yourself acknowledged Dubas' plan sucks.

... Maybe try to get a better understanding of the cap? Or stop pretending it doesn't exist?

 

[Winger98]

I remember very few of the Trouba pursuits being massive in nature, there was a limit most had capped on it and it never included our first rounders, so Winnipeg's offer from the Rangers wasn't something this board beat really.

who saw Pionk putting up 45 points last year? NYR's offer, at the time, didn't exactly look great until that happened and Trouba couldn't pull NYR's blueline out of the gutter. That said, I don't remember a lot of offers here being that huge but I'm probably wrong. I'm pretty sure Cholowski's name was thrown around.

That's because we drafted Mo 1 week later. 1st (top 3-5 protected) + Cholowski was what I was willing to offer (before draft).

Yzerman is a cool customer, he won't rattle easily.

yeah, now we could use a left-handed Trouba. Hard to say this with hindsight but I think that deal would have been better than what NYR gave up at the time. I mean, no one saw Pionk doing what he did in Winny.

 

[odin1981]

I think Detroit would be smart to move a Mantha for a blue chip prospect LHD or centerman who is under 20. Mantha will be in his late 20s or have left by UFA when Detroit is on the upswing into real playoff contention.

Wingers don't fetch C's or D's that are blue chips. Look at just about every teams forum on this site and people blindly think they do. Always there is a overpaid winger that fans clamor for unloading. And then look at the trades each year, no centers or D get moved for wingers.

 

[MBH]

Wingers don't fetch C's or D's that are blue chips. Look at just about every teams forum on this site and people blindly think they do. Always there is a overpaid winger that fans clamor for unloading. And then look at the trades each year, no centers or D get moved for wingers.

That's why we should continue to draft wingers with our top picks

 

[Winger98]

That's why we should continue to draft wingers with our top picks

I was waiting for someone to mention this. heh.

 

[Ricelund]

That's why we should continue to draft wingers with our top picks

I was waiting for someone to mention this. heh.

2013: Mantha (W)
2014: Larkin (C)
2015: Svechnikov (W)
2016: Cholowski (D)
2017: Rasmussen (C)
2018: Zadina (W), Veleno (C)
2019: Seider (D)
2020: Raymond (W)

3 C, 4 W, 2 D

Maybe if they take a winger with their top-five pick next year, I could see a problem. So far? Nothing troubling.

Also, Yzerman traded Drouin for Sergachev.

 

[Winger98]

2013: Mantha (W)
2014: Larkin (C)
2015: Svechnikov (W)
2016: Cholowski (D)
2017: Rasmussen (C)
2018: Zadina (W), Veleno (C)
2019: Seider (D)
2020: Raymond (W)

3 C, 4 W, 2 D

Maybe if they take a winger with their top-five pick next year, I could see a problem. So far? Nothing troubling.

Veleno was a second rounder.

My bigger issue with how our drafts have played out is that I think it has shown how badly we have been screwed by the lotto. We draft anywhere but 4th and we're getting a center in 2020. We get some good luck in 2017 and maybe we're grabbing Pettersson, Makar, or Heiskenen. We move up in 2018 and we are looking at Tkachuk (anther wing, I know) or Dahlin. To move down every year pushes the Wings into taking the BPA and at that point it's just most likely to be a wing.

 

[1878rgw]

Veleno was a second rounder.

#30 is still 1st round
Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2018

 

[njx9]

2017: Rasmussen (C)

Ras is almost certainly not an NHL C. Veleno wasn't a top pick by any real measure.

That's why we should continue to draft wingers with our top picks

Apparently you always have to go BPA, and if that means you have 20 Ws then it's ok because you don't ever need to actually ice a C or worry about your top pairing.

I suppose, to be fair, when you have a GM who couldn't actually identify the BPA for most of the last decade, it might not really be a condemnation of the strategy.

 

[Ricelund]

Veleno was a second rounder.

My bigger issue with how our drafts have played out is that I think it has shown how badly we have been screwed by the lotto. We draft anywhere but 4th and we're getting a center in 2020. We get some good luck in 2017 and maybe we're grabbing Pettersson, Makar, or Heiskenen. We move up in 2018 and we are looking at Tkachuk (anther wing, I know) or Dahlin. To move down every year pushes the Wings into taking the BPA and at that point it's just most likely to be a wing.

Veleno was #30 overall.

Getting shafted in the lotto sucks but Lafreniere is a winger.

 

[BinCookin]

That's why we should continue to draft wingers with our top picks

Would you have preferred we took Sanderson / Rossi or Drysdale this year??

Because that was our choice.

Be Specific so you can look back on your choices.

 

[Winger98]

Veleno was #30 overall.

Getting shafted in the lotto sucks but Lafreniere is a winger.

Byfield and Stutzl are centers, though.