News Article: Problem with a $10M goalie is the league has made that position less dominant

[Deluded Puck]

Habs aren't even hurt that bad as far as man games lost. They are middle of the pack. One can say Drouin was a big loss, but when you look at some of the top teams, a few of them have key injuries.

if Drouin is a big loss, then your team was never good to begin with.

 

[Habaneros]

guys.. the actual salary this year is $15 million usd....like $20 million canadian

 

[PaulD]

I think you could go as high as 7, if the goalie is a legit top-5 goalie in the league and is going to regularly steal games.

I feel like Price hasn’t stolen a game in years

and Bergevins teams are never a threat unless he does. Never have been.

 

[JianYang]

Also what he says about goaltending is very true. Price benefitted from a golden era of goaltending, or the tail end of it. Since 2015 the league has taken a massive turn to increase goalscoring. Smaller equipment, faster game, more penalties, etc.

Its going to be a while before we hear of another dominant goaltender IMO. Binnington is doing great, but hes behind a great team and he doesnt play many games, same for Vasi last year and Bishop. My guess is that youre not going to see any other stretches like Hasek, Thomas, Rask, Brodeur, Price, Bob, Lu, etc had. The goaltending position is dead and IMO a goaltender shouldnt be relied upon anymore.

Its the sad truth, its a shame really, because I think watching some of those runs was as entertaining as watching goals scored. Thomas, Hasek and Price entertainment factor was as high as McDavid IMO, in their best years.

I kinda wish theyd dial back on the reduction of equipment size. Speeding up the game is one thing, but reverting goalies back to the 70s doesnt make hockey more interesting IMO.

I dont think its the increased goal scoring per se that devalues a goalie. Guys like Roy, Belfour, and hasek still differentiated themselves in higher scoring eras because they were that much better than the average nhl goalie.

These days, you still have certain names that standout, but that gap between the average goalie and the "star" goalie has gotten tighter and tighter.

Meanwhile, the crackdown on slashing, and hooking has provided more room for the elite skaters to differentiate themselves from the pack, so their value should be trending in the other direction.

To me, it says that a model is broken if you try to build your team around a superstar goalie that takes the greatest proportion of your cap room.

 

[Mrb1p]

I dont think its the increased goal scoring per se that devalues a goalie. Guys like Roy, Belfour, and hasek still differentiated themselves in higher scoring eras because they were that much better than the average nhl goalie.

These days, you still have certain names that standout, but that gap between the average goalie and the "star" goalie has gotten tighter and tighter.

Meanwhile, the crackdown on slashing, and hooking has provided more room for the elite skaters to differentiate themselves from the pack, so their value should be trending in the other direction.

To me, it says that a model is broken if you try to build your team around a superstar goalie that takes the greatest proportion of your cap room.

Hasek and Belfour clearly played in some lower scoring eras. The late 90s and early 00s were some of the lowest in scoring.

 

[PaulD]

if Drouin is a big loss, then your team was never good to begin with.

You got that right

 

[JianYang]

Hasek and Belfour clearly played in some lower scoring eras. The late 90s and early 00s were some of the lowest in scoring.

Belfour began his career around 1990, and was actually teammates with hasek on those early 90s Chicago teams. Roy also overlapped even though his career started earlier.

They were well established, and coveted stars even before goals per game went really low.

 

[PaulD]

Hasek and Belfour clearly played in some lower scoring eras. The late 90s and early 00s were some of the lowest in scoring.

what half a goal a game per team?

 

[PaulD]

Belfour began his career around 1990, and was actually teammates with hasek on those early 90s Chicago teams. Roy also overlapped even though his career started earlier.

They were well established, and coveted stars even before goals per game went really low.

yes they were

 

[Ozmodiar]

The other main point of Ferraro in this video - which isn’t mentioned in the title - is that the team is going in 2 different directions.
1. Winning now with veteran leaders.
2. Youth movement.

However, the youth movement won’t catch the veterans while they’re still performing well.

 

[PaulD]

The other main point of Ferraro in this video - which isn’t mentioned in the title - is that the team is going in 2 different directions.
1. Winning now with veteran leaders.
2. Youth movement.

However, the youth movement won’t catch the veterans while they’re still performing well.

Marc Bergevin in Charge 101

 

[Tyson]

There is no true plan is what my take is. You invest in older players and surround them with Weal, Peca and Cousins

 

[Deluded Puck]

The other main point of Ferraro in this video - which isn’t mentioned in the title - is that the team is going in 2 different directions.
1. Winning now with veteran leaders.
2. Youth movement.

However, the youth movement won’t catch the veterans while they’re still performing well.

The only way this ever works if if you've got a very complete team (think early 2000s Detroit when they had Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall breaking into a roster that was full of HOF players). it wasn't easy back then and it is nigh-on impossible in the parity era

 

[1909]

I think you could go as high as 7, if the goalie is a legit top-5 goalie in the league and is going to regularly steal games.

I feel like Price hasn’t stolen a game in years

He has stolen a couple this year.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Marc Bergevin in Charge 101

He starts boiling the pasta and preparing the bolognese at the same time. The pasta’s gonna sit for a while.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The only way this ever works if if you've got a very complete team (think early 2000s Detroit when they had Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall breaking into a roster that was full of HOF players). it wasn't easy back then and it is nigh-on impossible in the parity era

right, exactly. Never works. Detroit were going for it. Cup aspirations. They weren’t on the same fence.

 

[Deluded Puck]

Also what he says about goaltending is very true. Price benefitted from a golden era of goaltending, or the tail end of it. Since 2015 the league has taken a massive turn to increase goalscoring. Smaller equipment, faster game, more penalties, etc.

Its going to be a while before we hear of another dominant goaltender IMO. Binnington is doing great, but hes behind a great team and he doesnt play many games, same for Vasi last year and Bishop. My guess is that youre not going to see any other stretches like Hasek, Thomas, Rask, Brodeur, Price, Bob, Lu, etc had. The goaltending position is dead and IMO a goaltender shouldnt be relied upon anymore.

Its the sad truth, its a shame really, because I think watching some of those runs was as entertaining as watching goals scored. Thomas, Hasek and Price entertainment factor was as high as McDavid IMO, in their best years.

I kinda wish theyd dial back on the reduction of equipment size. Speeding up the game is one thing, but reverting goalies back to the 70s doesnt make hockey more interesting IMO.

glad you wrote this, it saves me time.

look at all the cup winning goalies this since 2009 and there's a lot of inconsistency to be found.

Building from the net out is simply not a reliable strategy anymore.

 

[Mrb1p]

glad you wrote this, it saves me time.

look at all the cup winning goalies this since 2009 and there's a lot of inconsistency to be found.

Building from the net out is simply not a reliable strategy anymore.

It has never been a reliable strategy, but it has never stopped a team from winning it all with great tendies.

 

[LaP]

Happy to see Ferraro says you can't be at your maximum for 82 games cause he's damn right about this. It's a myth sadly perpetrated by way too many fans that it's possible.

He's also right that the kids will likely not be ready before Price and Weber becomes average players. In fact Price already kind of is and it should not be too long for Weber you could argue he is getting close to average defensively speaking.

 

[Harpo]

Price is a very good to elite goalie on an average-to-poor team, and it's been that way forever.

He will be too old when we'll be ready to compete, and that's a real tragedy.

And he'll never be traded to a contender, because contenders can't be built on 10,5 millions goalies anymore.

He's pretty much Ken Dryden, but in the opposite environment.

 

[LaP]

This was before we had our last lost. If we lose against Ott tonight what happens? 9 straight instead of just 7.

We are now 9 points down with 38 games to go. Let's say the Flyers play for 500 (points %) until the end of the season which would be a slower pace than they have right now they'll finish with 90 points. To finish with 91 points we need 48 points. This is 22-12-4. The chance for that to happen are so low it's not even worth considering by our management. 22-12-4 is 0.631 points %. Such points % would put us 7th in the league right now. So until the end of the season we must be one of the 7 best teams and hope one of the wild cards will play for 0.500 max which is worse than what they have done so far and hope no teams between them and us is doing as good as us. It's like basically impossible unless we make an important change to the lineup like Stl did last year.

 

[PaulD]

He starts boiling the pasta and preparing the bolognese at the same time. The pasta’s gonna sit for a while.

Brilliant

 

[NORiculous]

People keep saying there would be no takers for Weber, but I'm pretty sure the Jets would love to have him with the Byfuglien situation.

Byfuglien should hit the ice soon since it is the next step after his ankle surgery, and, he is in contact with the Jets. So, right now, I would guess that the Jets aren’t a good trading partner for Weber.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

The problem is it doesn't make sense to build from the net out when you have a salary cap. Your resources are finite. You have to put as many as possible into building a team that limits scoring chances. That's the most logical way to build a hockey team.

Of course, the hockey world had it backwards for so many years. If you put $11M in net, you're saying to the other team, "We'll play against you with $11M less in our skater group and you can shoot as much as you want."

Then oh no, the goalie is tired. The goalie tweaked his hammy. The goalie can't see the puck. The defence can't clear the rebound, etc. etc.

Why not just build a team that holds the puck more and takes more shots?

 

[admiralcadillac]

We are now 9 points down with 38 games to go. Let's say the Flyers play for 500 (points %) until the end of the season which would be a slower pace than they have right now they'll finish with 90 points. To finish with 91 points we need 48 points. This is 22-12-4. The chance for that to happen are so low it's not even worth considering by our management. 22-12-4 is 0.631 points %. Such points % would put us 7th in the league right now. So until the end of the season we must be one of the 7 best teams and hope one of the wild cards will play for 0.500 max which is worse than what they have done so far and hope no teams between them and us is doing as good as us. It's like basically impossible unless we make an important change to the lineup like Stl did last year.

So you're saying there's a chance?