Prime Henrik Sedin vs. Current Leon Draisaitl

[Fire Benning]

As I said in the rest of the post, defense that the Sedins played as a duo with a very specific playstyle that they perfected over years of playing together, not necessarily individual play by Henrik. Without Daniel, I don't know if Henrik's possession game would be as dominant the way someone like Datsyuk's was regardless of Zetterberg being on his wing or not. We don't have a large sample of this, but in '09-10, when Henrik won the Art Ross with Daniel missing 19 games, Henrik's CF% went from 57.5 with Daniel to 51.9 without, his SF% went from 55.8 to 45.9, his GF% went from 69.5 to 50, his xGF% went from 58.2 to 49.3, his HDCF% went from 61.9 to 45.9 and his GA/60 went from 2.28 to 3.03. The regression RAPM numbers for both Sedins aren't nearly as dominant as their actual possession numbers either.

Players analytics go down when they go from playing with one of the best possession driving winger ever in (Daniel Sedin) to playing with Kevin Bieksa on their wing, interesting!

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

Sedin, Draisaitl isn't quite there yet despite being a hell of a player who still may have more room to hit his ceiling. Answer could be different in 3 years.

 

[Regal]

Stuff like this always makes little sense to me. Take a player like Pettersson last year, he played on a very mediocre Vancouver team yet when he was on the ice the team scored at like a 65% rate and when he was off they scored at a 45% rate. Despite being on a bad team, Pettersson still was able to completely tilt the ice when he was on.

Draisaitl’s most common line mate is arguably the most talented hockey player ever. If two players of their magnitude can’t tilt the ice and outscore their opposition than maybe they’re not as good as people think they are.

Last year 5v5, with Draisaitl on the ice and no McDavid, the Oilers had a 57.4GF%. Without one of McDavid or Draisaitl on the ice, they had a 37.6GF% rate. Draisaitl had defensive issues, and McDavid and Draisaitl in particular don't seem to work well together defensively, but you're underrating exactly how bad the Oilers were outside of him and McDavid.

 

[Regal]

Players analytics go down when they go from playing with one of the best possession driving winger ever in (Daniel Sedin) to playing with Kevin Bieksa on their wing, interesting!

Ignoring the unique chemistry Daniel and Henrik shared is pretty flawed. The best possession players don't tank their possession stats like Henrik did that year while still playing in front of a very good top 4 defense and with a first line winger in Burrows. Hank was a great player, but his possession stats need to be taken with a grain of salt as do Daniel's. And the Bieksa thing is super overblown. He spent parts of like 2 games there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Henrik Sedin had like 1 truly elite season, while Draisaitl's already had 2. IMO, Draisaitl's more of an all around offensive threat because he's not only a great playmaker, but a high end goal scorer. Sedin was an elite playmaker, but wasn't much of a threat to score so, IMO, easier to defend.

 

[Captain Controversy]

No he just goes all offence on a team that is so bad that their fans have cared more about points than anything else. Prime Bergeron/Datysuk never reached the point totals of LD but they were much better players overall. To Oiler fans though seeing those 2 never reach LD's peak point totals = a much worse player.

Your argument does not take away his art Ross win, Hart memorial trophy, ted Lindsey, 50 goal season and 2 100 point seasons by the age of 24.

 

[Video Nasty]

Oh joy, we’re entering that point of time where hfboards childhood binkies get the choice every time over a current superstar of the last few seasons.

Doesn’t the league become super advanced in a 5-10 year span and the modern player wins every time with some of you?

Super hypocritical.

If you want to combine the Sedins as we so commonly do, they have as many elite seasons as Drai already does and it didn’t take him a decade to do it.

Enjoy a taste of your own medicine.

 

[daver]

What’s the sample size? Because Henrik Sedin produced without his brother the year he won the Hart Trophy. He also did that while not being one of the worst defensive players in the league had games with Kevin Bieksa as his winger, helped his team with his division and a round in the playoffs.

Draisaitl winning this poll is just laughable guy is literally in the one percentile for defensive play, he’s nowhere near the complete player peak Sedin was.

PPG with Daniel - 1.50

PPG without Daniel - 1.00

 

[daver]

Daniel Sedin was in on 71 of Henrik's 112 points in 09/10 while missing 19 games

McDavid was in on 53 of Drai's 110 points in 19/20 while missing 7 games.

Henrik was a PPG player in Daniel's absence.

Drai's PPG was 2.00 in McDavid's absence.

 

[Tony Stacks]

These poll results are absolutely disrespectful to Henrik. Prime Henrik was in the same category as prime Ovi and Crosby, Drasaitl definitely would not have been.

 

[Skolman]

These poll results are absolutely disrespectful to Henrik. Prime Henrik was in the same category as prime Ovi and Crosby, Drasaitl definitely would not have been.

Uh, no.

 

[Havre]

Probably more a reflection on the average age of posters on here than anything else (that is not criticism).

If you are 20 now are you going to watch full games of Sedin from 2010? If you are 20 now how could you have any view on this otherwise?

Maybe Draisaitl becomes the better player, but to me the answer to this question is easy. Sedin.

Not suggesting that you can't say Draisaitl if you are "old". Obviously we still judge players differently.

 

[Tony Stacks]

Uh, no.

In his peak, yes he was. He won a hart and art Ross over prime Crosby and Ovi

 

[trentmccleary]

Last for the Oilers, at even strength:
When Draisaitl was on the ice: 80 GF, 77 GA, 51% GF
When he was not on the ice...: 80 GF, 96 GA, 45% GF

In the last 3 seasons, at even strength:
When Draisaitl was on the ice: 246 GF, 248 GA, 49.3% GF, 3.74 GF/60 vs 3.77 GA/60
When he was not on the ice...: 273 GF, 325 GA, 45.7% GF

That not bad at all, but Henrik Sedins from 2009-2010 to 2011-2012
When Sedin was on the ice.: 240 GF, 153 GA, 61.1% GF, 3.79 GF/60 vs 2.42 GA/60
When he was not on the ice: 306 GF, 279 GA, 52.3% GF

You may want to mention that Henrik Sedin received a ridiculous level of offensive zone starts those 3 seasons... like one-dimensional, QMJHL rookie playing in the Stanley Cup Finals level offensive zone starts (~70%).

Draisaitl's zone starts were 53% the past 3 years, which is perfectly normal for star forwards.

 

[Regal]

You may want to mention that Henrik Sedin received a ridiculous level of offensive zone starts those 3 seasons... like one-dimensional, QMJHL rookie playing in the Stanley Cup Finals level offensive zone starts (~70%).

Draisaitl's zone starts were 53% the past 3 years, which is perfectly normal for star forwards.

Zone starts have been shown to have minimal effect on production and possession because the majority of shifts start on the fly. Henrik also had pretty normal zone starts in his Art Ross year. He also played fewer minutes than Draisaitl so their actual offensive zone starts aren't that different. In '12, when Henrik had his greatest offensive zone start percentage, he had 324 5v5 offensive zone starts. Draisaitl in '19 had 282.

 

[MadLuke]

You may want to mention that Henrik Sedin received a ridiculous level of offensive zone starts those 3 seasons... like one-dimensional, QMJHL rookie playing in the Stanley Cup Finals level offensive zone starts (~70%).

Draisaitl's zone starts were 53% the past 3 years, which is perfectly normal for star forwards.

Them and Burrows did lead the league:
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

With Malhotra leading the league in the opposite direction, but has we see looking at Kane and Malkin (vs Toews and Crosby) on that lead league in offensive zone result, it certainly help that type of deployment but does not make it an automatic that you will lead your team in gf%.

If we look at Ovechkin, Bergeron, Crosby, Datsyuk during those 3 season's at even strength for example:

Capitals with Ovechkin on the ice:
GF:217
GA: 140
GF%: 60.8%
without:
GF: 347
GA: 317
GF%: 52.3%

Bruins Bergeron:
with him:
GF: 175
GA: 119
GF%: 59.5%
without:
GF: 369
GA: 323
GF%: 53.3%

Pens Crosby:
GF: 171
GA: 114
GF%: 60.0%
without:
GF: 385
GA: 378
GF%: 50.5%

Wings Datsyuk:
GF: 167
GA: 114
GF%: 59.43%
without:
GF: 363
GA: 361
GF%: 50.1%

Would like to see Drai/McDavid change the ice result when they step on it for their teams like those did in there young days

 

[daver]

In his peak, yes he was. He won a hart and art Ross over prime Crosby and Ovi

You originally said "Prime Sedin".

Peak and prime are two different things, and even then your original statement is not correct.

Prime Sedin =/= Prime Crosby and OV

Peak Sedin =/= Peak Crosby and OV.

OV missed ten games that season and Crosby clearly was suffering from Cup hangover for the first quarter of the season. And neither of them had their twin playing with them.

 

[TopCheese]

Was just looking through Sedins stats. 3 goals and 47 assists his final year. Pretty crazy stat line

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You may want to mention that Henrik Sedin received a ridiculous level of offensive zone starts those 3 seasons... like one-dimensional, QMJHL rookie playing in the Stanley Cup Finals level offensive zone starts (~70%).

Draisaitl's zone starts were 53% the past 3 years, which is perfectly normal for star forwards.

Zone Starts do not effect players equally. The Sedins were great on the cycle, so they could benefit from starting in the OZ. McDavid is much more effective on the rush, so starting from his own end isn't a burden on his line.

The Sedins were simply more dominant ES players, and didn't need to cheat heavily on defense to put up points.