Helene St. James Prices likely too high; Wings may well decide to go with what they've got

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Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
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Farmington
Can we all agree that one of the biggest needs for this team is a prolific sniper to pair with Pavel?

That's what I want. I'm not the only one. And we have been asking for it going on 2+ years. If Kenny can solve that issue I would be content. We don't need a 2nd line center then because Z can be that.
 

WingsOverAvs

Non Right Winger
Jun 27, 2011
665
100
Orlando FL
I criticized him badly for it too, but his team is nearly all in their prime and isn't about to drop off just because they traded away Joe Morrow and a 1st. They have an amazing pool of prospect D behind Morrow and guys like Bennett who will likely have a long, successful career who isn't even really established as an NHLer yet. They could very easily afford to shoot for the moon this past year. I'm not suggesting we give up all of that, though. But at least like one of our okay-good prospects and a 2nd for a legitimate scoring threat in 2010 or 2011 would've been an understandable and realistic move. I don't think any of us would've been jumping off of a cliff because we traded away a player like Tatar and a 2nd back then if it gave a 1st/ 2nd line type forward, even if it was only for a season or two.

PIT has D depth but no forward prospects to speak of and they wasted their whole draft to get swept by BOS...and if DET had traded Tatar for a rental I would have been pissed
 

JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
4,461
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So, your point of contention is that because none of us may have intimate knowledge of possible moves that could've happened, but didn't, we should just accept the fact that Holland's hands were and are tied and is incapable of making moves because it's impossible?

If it is impossible for Holland to improve the team, what are we doing here?

No. Not my point. My point was, you can go back to 2010 and trace what was available in trades or FA relative to what was in our farm system and what cap space we have. You won't find many moves, if any, that would have "put us over the top." You're right. What are you doing here complaining? It's pointless. Holland had to gut the team in '09 due to the cap and we had no farm system back then. His depth players ran off for greener pastures, so he turned to CHEAP VETS to plug holes. He wasn't going to sign a big FA in 2009 because he had to take care of Mule, Z, and his depth with limited cap space. Same thing in 2010. What motive did Holland have to make big changes? He had neither the assets or motivation to make big changes to the team. It was a crap FA crop in 2010 anyways. Illitch basically held a gun to Holland's head and told him to sign Modano. Nobody seems to ever realize that, and yet this is probably when people started accusing him of hoarding old guys.

2011. Rafalski retires. Nothing tells us we were in on Burns. We still didn't have much of a farm system, but it was starting to get better. 2011 was when FA got ridiculous. DID YOU REALLY WANT TO SIGN WISNEWSKI TO THAT CONTRACT? EHRHOFF? REALLY? Don't tell me you did. Those were bad contracts. People were getting horrible deals. You people would be mobbing outside of Holland's office if he had signed anyone to deals that year for those prices. Don't tell me he should have signed Erik Cole. There was little need to go for offense this year because it did quite fine the year before.

2012. Suter was going to Minny and nothing was gonna change that. Garrison was going to Vancouver and nothing was going to change that. Everyone else sucked. Rozsival wasn't going to make a significant difference. Nobody to date has yet to trade for Yandle so don't bring him up. Howson was going to trade us Rick Nash the moment pigs began to fly. Needed offensive depth after Hudler left for big payday considering the lack of goal scoring down the stretch. No reason to assume Cleary was going to bad. He was plagued by injuries a year after scoring 26 goals. Farm System status was very good. But seriously, who do you want to give up? You wouldn't give up any pieces. Now look at our farm system. It's the best in the league.
 

fimoknete

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
860
0
Roesrath, Germany
i am so sick of this we love our team and do no trades or signings attitude.
the wings are so boring if datsyuk doesnt show up. even nashville is more entertaining.
the league is using detroit as a garbage can for players nobody else wants and holland doesnt even wanna change this.
this will be the third season in a row i will not visit a single game in the arena. no need to pay a single dollar to watch cleary, bertuzzi and abdelkader in a fake top 6.
ken holland, do you know where you can stick this team?
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,400
2,478
PIT has D depth but no forward prospects to speak of and they wasted their whole draft to get swept by BOS

Bennett is a top 6 forward for years to come and they could easily swap one of their D prospects for an F prospect. I'd rather we had given up a lot of picks in one draft and gone to the WCF than stand pat and lose to the Sharks in 5 games in the WCQF. Just to say "well, at least we went for it". Now we have a few more prospects to show for it, but let a cup run fall by the wayside.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
Shero has done way more good things than bad. I wish Holland was 1/2 as aggressive as Shero.

Shero has locked up his core. He'll be able to find plenty of players to plug into his lineup at low cost. He won't be shelling out 2 or 3 million for garbage like Ken Holland. He'll get young and old vets that are eager to win at a low cost. Fluery is an issue though.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,209
12,195
Tampere, Finland
16 teams make the playoffs. Making the playoffs =/ good hockey team

Consistently losing in the 1st/2nd round is a mediocre hockey team. You are basically fodder for the good teams.

Oh, mediocrity. That lovely word. Wings at their worst have been the 7th best playoff team during the last 4 years.

From 2010 to 2013
1. BOS 40 playoff wins
2. CHI 37
---------
3. LAK 29
4. SJS 25
5. PHI 23
6. VAN 22
7. DET 20
-. PIT 20
----------
9. WSH 17
10. NYR 16
11. NJD 15
12. MTL 13
--. NSH 13
14. PHX 12
15. TBL 11
16. OTT 10
----------
17. STL 6
18. ANA 5
--. BUF 5
20. TOR 3
--. FLO 3
22. NYI 2
--. COL 2
24. MIN 1
----------
25. CBJ 0
26. CGY 0
27. WPG 0
28. CAR 0
29. DAL 0
30. EDM 0

In my opinion, mediocre teams are those teams from 9th to 16th position.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,240
14,743
Yeah I wish Holland would spend 40% of the cap on 3 players :thumbd:

Haha, yeah it really sucks to have Crosby and Malkin locked up long-term.

Let me know when Holland acquires a 25 year old 40 goal scorer for a slightly above average defenseman.

Let me know when Holland can trade a bottom 6 player who's a healthy scratch in the palyoffs for a 2nd round pick.

Let me know when Holland starts getting assets for players he knows he is going to lose.

Shero is doing an awesome job and deserved GM of the year. He put together by far the most talented team in hockey. Not the guy's fault they didn't win, he's not the one on the ice playing games.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,400
2,478
Haha, yeah it really sucks to have Crosby and Malkin locked up long-term.

Let me know when Holland acquires a 25 year old 40 goal scorer for a slightly above average defenseman.

Let me know when Holland can trade a bottom 6 player who's a healthy scratch in the palyoffs for a 2nd round pick.

Let me know when Holland starts getting assets for players he knows he is going to lose.

Shero is doing an awesome job and deserved GM of the year. He put together by far the most talented team in hockey. Not the guy's fault they didn't win, he's not the one on the ice playing games.

Not to mention Dan Bylsma kinda sucks.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,827
1,754
In the Garage
Shero has done way more good things than bad. I wish Holland was 1/2 as aggressive as Shero.

Detroit really isn't a comparable for the Pens. The Hawks are. Both teams have locked up their core, traded non-essential guys for prospect or picks and have a solid pipeline of prospects. They have also made shrewd veteran acquisitions. They will both be very competitive for the foreseeable future.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,209
12,195
Tampere, Finland
Shero is doing an awesome job and deserved GM of the year. He put together by far the most talented team in hockey. Not the guy's fault they didn't win, he's not the one on the ice playing games.

Shero is an awesome guy and has 20 playoff wins in last 4 years?

Holland is horrible and has 20 playoff wins in last 4 years?
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,400
2,478
I like Dan Bylsma, love his PK (Don't know if your being sarcastic).

No, I actually don't care for him much at all. I don't think he gets the most out of his players, and would be quite average if he didn't have the roster that he does.
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Hossa was a big mistake. Going back to the Pavel issue. Ken Holland has DONE NOTHING since Hossa left to help out Pavel. Let's be honest, I know he was hurt. Hossa was pretty much a non-factor for the Hawks in their 2nd cup win.

16 points. +8...2 minutes a game on the PK, 25 takeaways
Only on the ice for 8 goals against in 22 games-playing 20 minutes a night.
The only regular forward on the ice for less goals against was Stalberg-who missed games and played far fewer minutes.

Hossa's stats cooled down toward the end because he wasn't the same after that injury

Patrick Kane- Mr Conn Smythe winner -- was on the ice for 15 goals against and had only 3 more points
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
Think were in for a rude awakening in the East next year. Hope I'm wrong. Maybe those teams will leave Pavel and Z alone.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
16 points. +8...2 minutes a game on the PK, 25 takeaways
Only on the ice for 8 goals against in 22 games-playing 20 minutes a night.
The only regular forward on the ice for less goals against was Stalberg-who missed games and played far fewer minutes.

Hossa's stats cooled down toward the end because he wasn't the same after that injury

Patrick Kane- Mr Conn Smythe winner -- was on the ice for 15 goals against and had only 3 more points

I watched a lot of Hawks playoff games and didn't really notice him much. Didn't look up the stats. Forgive me!
 

JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
4,461
0
Somewhere
Shero has done way more good things than bad. I wish Holland was 1/2 as aggressive as Shero.

Shero's been very agressive, and all it has amounted to were a series of first round exits followed by a drubbing at the hands of the the Bruins this year. :laugh:
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,240
14,743
Shero is an awesome guy and has 20 playoff wins in last 4 years?

Holland is horrible and has 20 playoff wins in last 4 years?

Was trying to defend someone bashing Shero, which I thought was unfair.

I shouldn't have brought Holland into it.

They are both very good GM's. Just different approaches.
 
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