Proposal: Price to the Preds (Habs retain $1M)

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Starat327

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I'm not sure which is my favorite part..

a) the 1sts are continuously "late round" "could bust" picks,
b) the preds cant possibly take their chances with a 36 year old who just won the vezina, and the 23 year old theyve been grooming in their system for about 5 years now, and has a 923 sv% through an admittedly smaller 50 game sample size, or
c) that its a foregone conclusion that Price reverts back to being a top 5 goalie int he world, despite all his recent struggles and injury issues, and has a much better chance of winning the cup, while ignoring the cap inflexibility he comes with, as well as the absolutely ludicrous price to acquire

Maybe its time for a poll..
 
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Soundgarden

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It's not often that a guy like Price is traded. A top 10 prospect? Tolavanen is good but top 10? Not sure about that one. Regardless, if there is a deal to be made, it starts with Tolavanen.

Lets play hypothetical situation here (hang in there and play.. I know it's hard for you).... Lets say this deal goes down. What's the potential of how this looks in 5 years?

- Preds would have a legit top 5 goalie who gives them a legit shot at multiple cups. Hard to say if they win one or not but I personally believe their chances get better. Pretty sure most teams would be ok with trading a top prospect and late 1st round picks for a Cup? Not guarantees but the Preds would have a great shot at it! Much better chance than with Rinne at 36+ and Saros who is unproven

- Habs have Tolavanen who is a safe top 6 forward? Possible top line winger? What are the chances the late 1st round picks turn into a top of the line-up player? You are acting like those 1st are top 10 picks? The chances are very high those picks are 25+ range and the Habs are left with an average NHL player or a bust.

I admit I started high in asking price. But rightly so. There is zero chance in hell I do a Roy trade re-do and give the Preds a cup like we did for the Avs.


WE DON'T WANT PRICE

Tolvanen is absolutely a top 10 prospect, his value to us is that of Elias Pettersson or Matt Barzal before his breakout. Now, will he play to his potential, we don't know, but that is his current value to Nashville.
We will not trade him, and we will not trade him for a player we have no use for and don't want.

AGAIN, the difference between Price and Rinne is minimal and it probably favors Rinne, who just won the Vezina. You think Rinne being older means we want Price, we do not.
 

Habs Halifax

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We likely aren't as good because we don't have any depth, and our pipeline is empty because we just gave up 5 players for 1.

No depth? The team core is solid and aside from Josi who needs a new contract after 2 years, all the important players are locked up for 4 or 5 plus years. Preds currently have well above $9M in cap space. Swapping Rinne for the younger Price with retension adds about $2M. So that makes it currently $7M with no major contracts to negotiate. Josi gets a raise but salary cap inflation covers this easily in the next two season.

Tolavanen hurts no doubt. But the picks are not helping the current cup window.
 

DRW204

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No depth? The team core is solid and aside from Josi who needs a new contract after 2 years, all the important players are locked up for 4 or 5 plus years. Preds currently have well above $9M in cap space. Swapping Rinne for the younger Price with retension adds about $2M. So that makes it currently $7M with no major contracts to negotiate. Josi gets a raise but salary cap inflation covers this easily in the next two season.

Tolavanen hurts no doubt. But the picks are not helping the current cup window.
look at their cap in 2020-2021 when Josi gets his new deal (8-9M) and having Price @ 9.5M on the roster (assume a 85.5M cap). Tolvanen's ELC and RFA years are going to be a major boon. If he's a capable top 6 F, NSH can let a guy like Craig Smith walk
 

Randy Randerson

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I'm not sure which is my favorite part..

a) the 1sts are continuously "late round" "could bust" picks,
b) the preds cant possibly take their chances with a 36 year old who just won the vezina, and the 23 year old theyve been grooming in their system for about 5 years now, and has a 923 sv% through an admittedly smaller 50 game sample size, or
c) that its a foregone conclusion that Price reverts back to being a top 5 goalie int he world, despite all his recent struggles and injury issues, and has a much better chance of winning the up, while ignoring the cap inflexibility he comes with.

Maybe its time for a poll..
This might be the best thread I've ever seen for someone not seeing his own ridiculous homer bias. It's a cherry on top that the Habs are my least favourite team and, in all likelihood, I get to see the reality play out that things are very close to how everyone but this guy sees them...and I'm sure this thread will get re-hashed when they do
 

Starat327

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This might be the best thread I've ever seen for someone not seeing his own ridiculous homer bias. It's a cherry on top that the Habs are my least favourite team and, in all likelihood, I get to see the reality play out that things are very close to how everyone but this guy sees them...and I'm sure this thread will get re-hashed when they do

Anti-habs propaganda troll!
 

Habs Halifax

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I'm not sure which is my favorite part..

a) the 1sts are continuously "late round" "could bust" picks,
b) the preds cant possibly take their chances with a 36 year old who just won the vezina, and the 23 year old theyve been grooming in their system for about 5 years now, and has a 923 sv% through an admittedly smaller 50 game sample size, or
c) that its a foregone conclusion that Price reverts back to being a top 5 goalie int he world, despite all his recent struggles and injury issues, and has a much better chance of winning the cup, while ignoring the cap inflexibility he comes with, as well as the absolutely ludicrous price to acquire

Maybe its time for a poll..

a) The 1st could bust. Were not talking about top 10 picks here. Your problem is you don't see or choose to see it from the Habs perspective. It's very probable the Habs just have Tolavanen and a few NHL average players to show for this trade down the road.

b) I respect if the Preds want to take their chances with the aging Rinne and the young Saros. I said this a hundred times now. Pay attention. But my question is what Preds team is better? The one with Price or with Rinne? You think the difference is marginal at best but you ignor the 6 year age gap.

c) There are no guarantees Price is a top 5 goalie moving forward. The same as there are no guarantees that Tolvanen is a top line player or how those picks will turn out. There are risks with any trades from both sides. However, think of it this way if you are worried about confidence in Price.... Do you seriously think team Canada does not have trust in him being the starter if they had to choose a roster today? After all, they did pick him after his 2015/2016 injured season for the 2016 World Cup ;)

We don't need a poll. It's not rocket science how Price's value is being thrown under the bus just like Patch was. Popularity means zero on these boards. The return the Habs got for Patch proves this.
 

Randy Randerson

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a) The 1st could bust. Were not talking about top 10 picks here. Your problem is you don't see or choose to see it from the Habs perspective. It's very probable the Habs just have Tolavanen and a few NHL average players to show for this trade down the road.

b) I respect if the Preds want to take their chances with the aging Rinne and the young Saros. I said this a hundred times now. Pay attention. But my question is what Preds team is better? The one with Price or with Rinne? You think the difference is marginal at best but you ignor the 6 year age gap.

c) There are no guarantees Price is a top 5 goalie moving forward. The same as there are no guarantees that Tolvanen is a top line player or how those picks will turn out. There are risks with any trades from both sides. However, think of it this way if you are worried about confidence in Price.... Do you seriously think team Canada does not have trust in him being the starter if they had to choose a roster today? After all, they did pick him after his 2015/2016 injured season for the 2016 World Cup ;)

We don't need a poll. It's not rocket science how Price's value is being thrown under the bus just like Patch was. Popularity means zero on these boards. The return the Habs got for Patch proves this.
maybe the error in your accounting is that you believe Pacioretty = Price where you're not considering how different their situations are, but you are unbelievably off base
 
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Starat327

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a) The 1st could bust. Were not talking about top 10 picks here. Your problem is you don't see or choose to see it from the Habs perspective. It's very probable the Habs just have Tolavanen and a few NHL average players to show for this trade down the road.

b) I respect if the Preds want to take their chances with the aging Rinne and the young Saros. I said this a hundred times now. Pay attention. But my question is what Preds team is better? The one with Price or with Rinne? You think the difference is marginal at best but you ignor the 6 year age gap.

c) There are no guarantees Price is a top 5 goalie moving forward. The same as there are no guarantees that Tolvanen is a top line player or how those picks will turn out. There are risks with any trades from both sides. However, think of it this way if you are worried about confidence in Price.... Do you seriously think team Canada does not have trust in him being the starter if they had to choose a roster today? After all, they did pick him after his 2015/2016 injured season for the 2016 World Cup ;)

We don't need a poll. It's not rocket science how Price's value is being thrown under the bus just like Patch was. Popularity means zero on these boards. The return the Habs got for Patch proves this.

I dont need to see it from a habs perspective. Nobody from Nashville is remotely interested in this trade, so nobody cares about the risk Montreal is taking on. A montreal fan created the thread, so theyre obviously comfortable with it (even typing that hurt). YOur "well, look at the risk my team is taking" tactic isnt working on anyone here. The value in the proposal is so egregiously in favor to the Habs, its borderline criminal.
 

Habs Halifax

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look at their cap in 2020-2021 when Josi gets his new deal (8-9M) and having Price @ 9.5M on the roster (assume a 85.5M cap). Tolvanen's ELC and RFA years are going to be a major boon. If he's a capable top 6 F, NSH can let a guy like Craig Smith walk

- 21 players signed at the moment with $9.6M in cap space
- Fast forward to the Josi contract year (2020/2021). $28.6M in cap space with 10 players signed.
- Add 2 years of salary cap inflation (Lets say $7M ish). That makes it around $35.6M in cap space (+/-).
- Subract Josi's next contract. What's your wild guess? $8M-$9M? That's 11 players signed with $27M in cap space.
- Subtract Price's $9M. That's $18.1M in cap space with 12 players signed.
- What RFA players need new contracts? Hartman, Fiala, Sissons. Pretty sure none on these guys are getting any more than $3M each. So that's 15 players signed with 9M in cap space.
- Leaves 8 depth players to sign with $9M ish in cap space. Not a major problem

Certainly not a huge amount of cap space left but I don't see major problems. Not any more than other cup contenders who have way more impact contracts to negotiate in the next 4 years.
 

Habs Halifax

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His value might be higher than some suggest but he's not the most valuable piece in history, yet that's what you're asking.

No really. I'm not asking for any current piece on the Preds roster that hurts their chances at winning a cup in the next 5 yeas. Tolavanen hurts but if Price is being traded, he is a must have. Not trying to force the deal but you have to agree it's Tolavanen++. The 25+ 1st round picks are nice but a gamble.

There is just no fair comparable to use cause an asset like Price with term is rarely traded.
 

DRW204

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His value might be higher than some suggest but he's not the most valuable piece in history, yet that's what you're asking.

Although it's true that Patches value did get undersold a bit on this board, It's funny that she (I believe, correct me if i am wrong) is bringing it up because it was typically over sold from her. If you frequented the trade boards during the season, you should have seen some of the unrealistic offers that were created.

Patches value was thrown under the bus just as much as OP overvalued it. She (I believe) used to put proposals like 1st(s)+R.Thomas/Vilardi/Roslovic/Borgstrom/Steel(+) for a collection of Pacioretty+other MTL fodder.

Now that an extended Paciroetty went for a 2nd+Suzuki+Tatar everyone other than her was wrong about Patches value :skeptic:
 

Randy Randerson

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No really. I'm not asking for any current piece on the Preds roster that hurts their chances at winning a cup in the next 5 yeas. Tolavanen hurts but if Price is being traded, he is a must have. Not trying to force the deal but you have to agree it's Tolavanen++. The 25+ 1st round picks are nice but a gamble.

There is just no fair comparable to use cause an asset like Price with term is rarely traded.
it's rarely traded because no one wants that risk.

How can you face this kind of negative reaction across the board and not have that information affect your opinion at all? like your starting place drastically overvalued your own asset, drastically undervalued the other team's assets, drastically undervalued the risk associated to Price and his contract, and didn't consider the other team's needs at all, so even getting to that as a starting point and thinking it's fair is impressive, but you're approaching 500 posts of negative reaction...read the room man.
No, you made an error. It's going to be a shock to you but Price > Patch.
if healthy as a player, sure. As an asset that is likely to be the highest paid at his position for 8 more years through a very likely decline that may have already started, absolutely not.

How do you think you're smarter than everyone else on here?
 

DRW204

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My point went over your head or your trying to act funny. Either way, you don't look good. Rinne vs Price = Tatar vs Patch. Pretty sure you are smart enough to come to this conclusion.
are you suggesting the difference in production/value/stats etc b/w Rinne & Price is = that of Tatar & Patches? Just want to be clear
 

Habs Halifax

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it's rarely traded because no one wants that risk.

How can you face this kind of negative reaction across the board and not have that information affect your opinion at all? like your starting place drastically overvalued your own asset, drastically undervalued the other team's assets, drastically undervalued the risk associated to Price and his contract, and didn't consider the other team's needs at all, so even getting to that as a starting point and thinking it's fair is impressive, but you're approaching 500 posts of negative reaction...read the room man.

if healthy as a player, sure. As an asset that is likely to be the highest paid at his position for 8 more years through a very likely decline that may have already started, absolutely not.

Haha... That risk? Ok, so lets say Price was not hurt last year and has Price numbers. Do you seriously think the Habs trollers don't devalue him still?

Like I said, popularity don't bother me one bit. It means zero on these boards but people try to use to to claim a fact over and over. It's the same BS Habs fans heard about when we tried to get our return for Patch. I know I have said this a lot but I know those out there who remain quiet know what I am talking about.

When Salary retention is considered, Lots of NHL GM's are intrigued. Price is still considered one of the best and most GM's know why he is struggling in Montreal. It's the same reason why Patch was. Not all GM's are interested but there will be some. Adding Price on a team with solid depth and good defense is a game changer.
 

TGWL

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No depth? The team core is solid and aside from Josi who needs a new contract after 2 years, all the important players are locked up for 4 or 5 plus years. Preds currently have well above $9M in cap space. Swapping Rinne for the younger Price with retension adds about $2M. So that makes it currently $7M with no major contracts to negotiate. Josi gets a raise but salary cap inflation covers this easily in the next two season.

Tolavanen hurts no doubt. But the picks are not helping the current cup window.

1) Josi will sign a new contract for double or more than what he's making. Lets say +4 million.
2) Price is more expensive +2.5 (10.5 - 1 million retained - Rinne)
3) Fiala - currently has a cap hit under 1 million. He scored 23 goals and 48 points. What happens if he does that again? He's an RFA after this year. Lets say + 3.5 million

In 2 years they're now + 11 million.

Oh, yeah, then there's Ryan Ellis who has his cap go from 2,500,00 to 6,250,000 after this year... In other words, you don't really know what you're talking about.
 
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Habs Halifax

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1) Josi will sign a new contract for double or more than what he's making. Lets say +4 million.
2) Price is more expensive +2.5 (10.5 - 1 million retained - Rinne)
3) Fiala - currently has a cap hit under 1 million. He scored 23 goals and 48 points. What happens if he does that again? Lets say + 3.5 million

In 2 years they're now + 11 million.

Oh, yeah, then there's Ryan Ellis who has his cap go from 2,500,00 to 6,250,000 after this year... In other words, you don't really know what you're talking about.

My breakdown in another post is more detailed than yours. You gave us the shorten short sighted version. Go look at my detailed breakdown a few post up. It's not a major problem and you failed at trying to say I don't know what I am talking about.

Look at post 456. Try again to belittle me. You might get there some day
 

Randy Randerson

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Haha... That risk? Ok, so lets say Price was not hurt last year and has Price numbers. Do you seriously think the Habs trollers don't devalue him still?

Like I said, popularity don't bother me one bit. It means zero on these boards but people try to use to to claim a fact over and over. It's the same BS Habs fans heard about when we tried to get our return for Patch.
I think there's no team that would give full credit for him returning to being worth $10.5M (or $9.5M) for another 8 years given the starting point, and invest full value (probably more) for that given that he's 31 and coming off a bad & injured season. And, I don't think 1 more good & healthy season changes that given that the contract takes him well beyond the time of his career that he's likely to be good based on the comparable body of players in the position before him

fwiw, I always thought that Pacioretty was worth around what he got and I'm sure if you dig hard enough you'll find support for that in my posting history - he was coming off a bit of a down year but still paced for mid 20's in goals with a history of durability and still in his 20's. I, the same person who thought that about Pacioretty, would not take Price's contract for free with $1M of retention in a salary cap world, Rinne's trade value is much higher than Price's in a trade to my team and I will bet (a lot) that sentiment will be heavily more common than the opposite
 
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