Prevelence of fighting in Olympic hockey pre-98'

[cajmonkey]

Hi.

Anyone here know where to find stats on fights that took place during Olympic hockey games before NHL'ers got involved?

Were there many fights before 1998?


Thanks.

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

Hi.

Anyone here know where to find stats on fights that took place during Olympic hockey games before NHL'ers got involved?

Were there many fights before 1998?


Thanks.

Fighting in Olympic Competition is & has been totally banned since inception. You fight your gone. Your seeking something that doesnt exist though I'm not sure if anyone ever has been ejected, lost it to the point they went A.N.I.M.A.L. and got tossed.

 

[cajmonkey]

Fighting in Olympic Competition is & has been totally banned since inception. You fight your gone. Your seeking something that doesnt exist though I'm not sure if anyone ever has been ejected, lost it to the point they went A.N.I.M.A.L. and got tossed.

Thanks.

I saw a fight at the end of a '92 game between France and USA so I imagine someone else has lost their cool as well, especially back when fighting was commonplace in hockey.

Tried finding what the penalties were for when I found the scoresheet but Olympic pages lead to dead ends.

 

[Sanf]

Thanks.

I saw a fight at the end of a '92 game between France and USA so I imagine someone else has lost their cool as well, especially back when fighting was commonplace in hockey.

Tried finding what the penalties were for when I found the scoresheet but Olympic pages lead to dead ends.

Well there are occasions, but it is rare. I think you need to find hardcore international hockey historian to find stats on it. Do not believe that those exist in internet. And what can be considered as a fight.

Sometimes in older days some NA players may have hit bit of culture shock what was considered fighting in International circles. I remebered reading about few in 1952. American Andy Gambucci fought Polish Antoni Wrobel in a part of bigger scrum. In the same tournament American Joe Czarnota fought Swiss Gian Bazzi.

Finnish History book remember them as playing dirty and hard.. Did read about the Czarnota vs. Bazzi fight and NA papers reported it hardly being a fight...

 

[cajmonkey]

Well there are occasions, but it is rare. I think you need to find hardcore international hockey historian to find stats on it. Do not believe that those exist in internet. And what can be considered as a fight.

Sometimes in older days some NA players may have hit bit of culture shock what was considered fighting in International circles. I remebered reading about few in 1952. American Andy Gambucci fought Polish Antoni Wrobel in a part of bigger scrum. In the same tournament American Joe Czarnota fought Swiss Gian Bazzi.

Finnish History book remember them as playing dirty and hard.. Did read about the Czarnota vs. Bazzi fight and NA papers reported it hardly being a fight...

The difference on cultures is interesting.

It's funny that I found video but no text based records. I'm probably using the wrong search criteria as there must be complete box scores from 1992. It wasn't that long ago.

 

[cajmonkey]

Thanks.

I saw a fight at the end of a '92 game between France and USA so I imagine someone else has lost their cool as well, especially back when fighting was commonplace in hockey.

Tried finding what the penalties were for when I found the scoresheet but Olympic pages lead to dead ends.

Ya, since it would be a match penalty it should simple to find, if there were any, just by looking at what the penalties were for. Even small town pee-wee hockey teams had records of what penalties were given during a game in the 80's so 90's Olympics should be out there somewhere.

 

[Anton13]

Hockey-reference.com has boxscores from the olympics starting from Antwerpen 1920:

Men's Olympic Hockey Year Index | Hockey-Reference.com

But they don’t list the reason for penalties.

 

[Killion]

The difference on cultures is interesting.

Yeah, very much so. Initially in Canada & the North Eastern US hockey was a "Gentleman's Game" played by the well heeled Sons of the Landed Gentry, Doctors, Lawyers, Academics.... fighting absolutely not part of the game. With the rise of Professionalism however, Pennsylvania-Michigan, Quebec & so on, creation of the NHA in 1909 which morphed into the NHL... the game gaining in popularity and inexpensive with the kids of blue collar immigrants taking it up, becoming far more rough & tumble.... physicality encouraged which then led to fighting, the owners & promoters finding the crowds loving that aspect of the game began marketing it as a Blood Sport in order to fill buildings.

#1 sport was Boxing, extremely popular (wrestling as well), many of the famous old buildings, Chicago Stadium, Detroit's Olympia etc designed first & foremost to host boxing with pro hockey a secondary tenant to fill up dates, keep the lights on. When Tex Rickard saw the success of the NY Americans playing out of MSG for example, he applied for & received an Expansion team from the NHL, named them the Rangers of course, and in order to fill Madison Square hired off-duty ambulances to tear around the area with sirens blaring well into the 1st period of play in order to grab passersby's attention, that they'd rush to the box office, buy a ticket to go inside & see what the Hell was going on..... sort of like people Rubbernecking at scene of a car accident or fire.... that if that many ambulances were required tearing around at breakneck speeds headed for MSG then was worth seeing, buying a ticket, checking out the carnage....

Hockey across the pond, your knick of the woods down into Italy & so on, followed an entirely different trajectory in terms of growth & development, fighting not part of the equation. Clean checking though at times some dirty stickwork. Club systems, Elite Leagues, Semi-Pro to Full-Pro & so on & so forth. Following IIHF Rules & Guidelines, lots of Tournament Hockey, "Friendlies" and fighting had no place in it. Anathema to the spirit of sport. You like fighting take up or go watch Boxing..... In Canada, Ontario circa 1900's, the straight laced executives of the OHA absolutely railed at the violence & professionalism, attempted to stamp it out in its infancy, that "this is not the way the game was meant to be played", a battle they lost obviously. Valiant effort. During the era of the Stanley Cup Challenge, the Toronto Marlboro's made up of the Sons of local wealthy & Scions Challenging, Gentlemen Amateurs, getting beaten up by the "nasty, dirty & corrupt blue collar pro's". The President of the OHA also a major newspaper publisher/editor, going full on Thunder & Brimstone in his rage over the corruption of the game in published articles.... how the Saintly Marlboro Lads who wouldnt even say tihS if their mouths were full of it were robbed, mugged & beaten up by the Nasty Boys from the wrong side of the tracks, paid assassins & on & on & on....

 

[cajmonkey]

Hockey-reference.com has boxscores from the olympics starting from Antwerpen 1920:

Men's Olympic Hockey Year Index | Hockey-Reference.com

But they don’t list the reason for penalties.

Still awesomesauce. I can see individual player pm minutes and use my powers of deduction.

Thanks so much!

 

[cajmonkey]

Yeah, very much so. Initially in Canada & the North Eastern US hockey was a "Gentleman's Game" played by the well heeled Sons of the Landed Gentry, Doctors, Lawyers, Academics.... fighting absolutely not part of the game. With the rise of Professionalism however, Pennsylvania-Michigan, Quebec & so on, creation of the NHA in 1909 which morphed into the NHL... the game gaining in popularity and inexpensive with the kids of blue collar immigrants taking it up, becoming far more rough & tumble.... physicality encouraged which then led to fighting, the owners & promoters finding the crowds loving that aspect of the game began marketing it as a Blood Sport in order to fill buildings.

#1 sport was Boxing, extremely popular (wrestling as well), many of the famous old buildings, Chicago Stadium, Detroit's Olympia etc designed first & foremost to host boxing with pro hockey a secondary tenant to fill up dates, keep the lights on. When Tex Rickard saw the success of the NY Americans playing out of MSG for example, he applied for & received an Expansion team from the NHL, named them the Rangers of course, and in order to fill Madison Square hired off-duty ambulances to tear around the area with sirens blaring well into the 1st period of play in order to grab passersby's attention, that they'd rush to the box office, buy a ticket to go inside & see what the Hell was going on..... sort of like people Rubbernecking at scene of a car accident or fire.... that if that many ambulances were required tearing around at breakneck speeds headed for MSG then was worth seeing, buying a ticket, checking out the carnage....

Hockey across the pond, your knick of the woods down into Italy & so on, followed an entirely different trajectory in terms of growth & development, fighting not part of the equation. Clean checking though at times some dirty stickwork. Club systems, Elite Leagues, Semi-Pro to Full-Pro & so on & so forth. Following IIHF Rules & Guidelines, lots of Tournament Hockey, "Friendlies" and fighting had no place in it. Anathema to the spirit of sport. You like fighting take up or go watch Boxing..... In Canada, Ontario circa 1900's, the straight laced executives of the OHA absolutely railed at the violence & professionalism, attempted to stamp it out in its infancy, that "this is not the way the game was meant to be played", a battle they lost obviously. Valiant effort. During the era of the Stanley Cup Challenge, the Toronto Marlboro's made up of the Sons of local wealthy & Scions Challenging, Gentlemen Amateurs, getting beaten up by the "nasty, dirty & corrupt blue collar pro's". The President of the OHA also a major newspaper publisher/editor, going full on Thunder & Brimstone in his rage over the corruption of the game in published articles.... how the Saintly Marlboro Lads who wouldnt even say tihS if their mouths were full of it were robbed, mugged & beaten up by the Nasty Boys from the wrong side of the tracks, paid assassins & on & on & on....

My neck of the woods is Canada but that was an informative post filled with tidbits I'd never heard.

Note to self: buy an ambulance and then rent an empty hall.

 

[Killion]

My neck of the woods is Canada but that was an informative post filled with tidbits I'd never heard.

Note to self: buy an ambulance and then rent an empty hall.

.... and oops, sorry.... lost track of who I was responding to..... mind wanders sometimes....

 

[tony d]

Yeah, fighting has been frowned upon in the Olympics. Oh and thanks for sharing that hockey reference thing. That website's the bee's knees if you ask me.