Pressure / No Pressure

[Hunter368]

When exactly are we going to get away from these sorts of ridiculous posts about "faith" as if there is no basis in statistical or any other sort of analysis? The Jets and Canucks have the same results this season, but if you can't see the difference between the Canucks and the Jets, then I don't think that's based on rational or objective analysis.

Again, until results show a difference then were no better then our record.....that's why the NHL keeps records........otherwise every fan base would label their team the SC winner. We would have 30 SC winners every year........records determine who is good......not faith, not potential, not speculation.

5 years later and the results aren't any better. Now it's fair to say to me, but but we have lots of potential in our prospects.....agreed we do.....but no one cares about potential....we care about results. Now it's fair to say to me we sucked when the team started in year one.....agreed we did.....it's fair to say to me it takes time to improve....agreed it does......but how long? A decade? 15 years? Who cares, until we get to that point of being a constant playoff team we're no better then year one. To date the results are no better.......that's the fact. When our record shows were better, I'll agree our results are better....not before. [mod]

 

[JetsFan815]

I question the value of this so called "access". Lawless has gotten one interview this year from Maurice, maybe will get another from Chevy at the end of the season. It's not like the Jets make themselves available to the media. What is this access we are talking about then? Being in the conference room with their recorder? What's the point of that? Dave Minuk is gonna post the entire conference online in 10 minutes anyways, there is no exclusivity anyways. Why not be constructively critical? Damn that "access"

 

[JetsFan815]

Nah... They only get paid to do it, then spend half their time whining about how they're treated or penning simplistic articles to show how "edgy" they are. It's all about trying to stand out from the rest of the media for guys like Wazny. I prefer research, thoughtful analysis, and maybe some actual reporting to this melodramatic "town cryer" schtick.

Wazny is an extreme, there is a reasonable middle ground between TNSE bootlicking and bathwater drinking by the media by guys like Beyak and the thinly veiled trolling that Wazny partakes in

 

[Whileee]

Again, until results show a difference then were no better then our record.....that's why the NHL keeps records........otherwise every fan base would label their team the SC winner. We would have 30 SC winners every year........records determine who is good......not faith, not potential, not speculation.

5 years later and the results aren't any better. Now it's fair to say to me, but but we have lots of potential in our prospects.....agreed we do.....but no one cares about potential....we care about results. Now it's fair to say to me we sucked when the team started in year one.....agreed we did.....it's fair to say to me it takes time to improve....agreed it does......but how long? A decade? 15 years? Who cares, until we get to that point of being a constant playoff team we're no better then year one. To date the results are no better.......that's the fact. When our record shows were better, I'll agree our results are better....not before. [mod]

I still think that's a very simplistic approach. Nobody said anything about 10-15 years. People who could see that the Hawks or Kings were going to be contenders before they were didn't base it on"faith", but on an analysis of their organizational quality and depth. It's worth noting again that a lot of non-Winnpeg commentators have projected that the Jets have a bright future. Do you think they are all Jets fans who are blindly going on faith?

 

[Hunter368]

I still think that's a very simplistic approach. Nobody said anything about 10-15 years. People who could see that the Hawks or Kings were going to be contenders before they were didn't base it on"faith", but on an analysis of their organizational quality and depth. It's worth noting again that a lot of non-Winnpeg commentators have projected that the Jets have a bright future. Do you think they are all Jets fans who are blindly going on faith?

You seem focused on one word, that I'm not trying to focus on. So if you don't like faith, ok, remove it from my posts.....don't matter to me.....by saying it I wasn't trying to make any particular point by it.

The fact is after 5 years we have zero better results to show for half a decade. You want to hang your hat on less tangible points and I want to hang my hat on more concrete points. The fact is we have shown zero improvement in results.....that can't be debated. You want to argue that potential will help us in the future, which it might or might not......but the fact is that it hasn't helped us to date in five years.

You might want to give this organization another five years to show improved results.......I'm not willing to do that. My patience is running out, I want to see results next year or at the latest two years or nothing can be said to me that will make me believe in Chevy. In life, in business we don't get unlimited bogies or passes or unlimited time to get results.....we get a reasonable time period or were replaced/fired.

 

[Whileee]

You seem focused on one word, that I'm not trying to focus on. So if you don't like faith, ok, remove it from my posts.....don't matter to me.....by saying it I wasn't trying to make any particular point by it.

The fact is after 5 years we have zero better results to show for half a decade. You want to hang your hat on less tangible points and I want to hang my hat on more concrete points. The fact is we have shown zero improvement in results.....that can't be debated. You want to argue that potential will help us in the future, which it might or might not......but the fact is that it hasn't helped us to date in five years.

You might want to give this organization another five years to show improved results.......I'm not willing to do that. My patience is running out, I want to see results next year or at the latest two years or nothing can be said to me that will make me believe in Chevy. In life, in business we don't get unlimited bogies or passes or unlimited time to get results.....we get a reasonable time period or were replaced/fired.

If you thought this franchise could be fixed and rebuilt solidly for the future by their 5th season, then I think you had unrealistic expectations. Their very first draft pick is just now becoming a lead player, and their other foundation players are younger.

I thought they needed to move to youth and would likely take a step back as a result, so I obviously had different expectations than you and some other fans.

I've never said I think the organization should have five more years to show results, because that isn't the necessary time frame to build through a draft and develop approach. But I also think you can't expect lasting change in five years when it takes a lot of young players that long before they can be leaders. I've said I expect to see success in the next couple of seasons. I'll stick with that.

 

[Evil Little]

It's worth noting again that a lot of non-Winnpeg commentators have projected that the Jets have a bright future. Do you think they are all Jets fans who are blindly going on faith?

Or, on the flip side, are Lawless and Patterson clinging on to every dwindling bit of their media access when they avoid asking Hitchcock if Steve Ott has pictures of Doug Armstrong, or neglect to rake Ken Holland over the coals on the Abdelkader contract? They spoke with both in the last week.

I doubt very highly that they're in the pocket of SLBHC or Olympia Entertainment.

 

[Hunter368]

If you thought this franchise could be fixed and rebuilt solidly for the future by their 5th season, then I think you had unrealistic expectations. Their very first draft pick is just now becoming a lead player, and their other foundation players are younger.

I thought they needed to move to youth and would likely take a step back as a result, so I obviously had different expectations than you and some other fans.

I've never said I think the organization should have five more years to show results, because that isn't the necessary time frame to build through a draft and develop approach. But I also think you can't expect lasting change in five years when it takes a lot of young players that long before they can be leaders. I've said I expect to see success in the next couple of seasons. I'll stick with that.

Fixed or rebuilt solidly in 5 years? Where did I say that? I said improved results in five years.

2011 - .512% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference
2012 - .531% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 9th in conference
2013 - .512% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference
2014 - .604% pt percentage, swept in 4 games 1st Rd, 7th in conference
2015 - .469% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference (1 game remaining)

Where are the improved results after 5 years? I never stated fixed or rebuilt solidly......just show me improved results. Those pt %'s and conference results are embarrassing.

 

[Whileee]

Fixed or rebuilt solidly in 5 years? Where did I say that? I said improved results in five years.

2011 - .512% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference
2012 - .531% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 9th in conference
2013 - .512% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference
2014 - .604% pt percentage, swept in 4 games 1st Rd, 7th in conference
2015 - .469% pt percentage, out of playoffs, 11th in conference (1 game remaining)

Where are the improved results after 5 years? I never stated fixed or rebuilt solidly......just show me improved results. Those pt %'s and conference results are embarrassing.

You expected that they would improve steadily through a rebuild through a draft and develop process? I think this season was a bit of an aberration, which coincided with the first real youth push and the trading of their captain as a tough but necessary transition. I also expected a step back this season.

 

[Whileee]

Wazny is an extreme, there is a reasonable middle ground between TNSE bootlicking and bathwater drinking by the media by guys like Beyak and the thinly veiled trolling that Wazny partakes in

Of course Beyak is going to be a supporter. He's the play by play guy who has to travel with the team. Listen to any team's broadcast crew and most are much bigger homers. Jim Fox with the Kings is hilarious.

 

[Whileee]

Or, on the flip side, are Lawless and Patterson clinging on to every dwindling bit of their media access when they avoid asking Hitchcock if Steve Ott has pictures of Doug Armstrong, or neglect to rake Ken Holland over the coals on the Abdelkader contract? They spoke with both in the last week.

I doubt very highly that they're in the pocket of SLBHC or Olympia Entertainment.

They could have also asked Armstrong why a very big and good team like the Blues still carried Reaves on the roster.

 

[Hunter368]

You expected that they would improve steadily through a rebuild through a draft and develop process? I think this season was a bit of an aberration, which coincided with the first real youth push and the trading of their captain as a tough but necessary transition. I also expected a step back this season.

Many of us expected a slight step back this year, but very few if any expected this drop off.

Time will tell as I said before, I'm drawing the line in the sand. Chevy has two more years, if he hasn't produced significantly improved results I'm full on joining the camp that wants Chevy fired. 7 years is very fair, some would even call it generous.

 

[Whileee]

Many of us expected a slight step back this year, but very few if any expected this drop off.

Time will tell as I said before, I'm drawing the line in the sand. Chevy has two more years, if he hasn't produced significantly improved results I'm full on joining the camp that wants Chevy fired. 7 years is very fair, some would even call it generous.

I would agree that 7 years is fair - I'm not sure I would say it's "generous", given the route they've taken.

I think it's important to realize that the lack of progress in the standings is to a large degree based on a conscious decision to focus on the future more than the present. As an example, a large part of the return for Kane was three future assets that would almost certainly not be strong contributors in the near term. Instead, Chevy could have tried to get "now" players to boost the team's fortunes in the short term. Trading Ladd for a pick and prospect rather than signing him was clearly a detriment to their short-term results, but is expected to strengthen the future. They have plenty of assets that they could trade for vets that would improve their short-term results. My view is that these would have been mistakes, but they would perhaps have made Chevy look better in your eyes because they would have showed progress up the standings more quickly.

 

[Jets4Life]

Hammer, meet nail.

I had an interesting exchange on Twitter with Bartley Kives:




Let's be candid. If the media displeases True North then their access is cut off, full stop. Remember the lament about Chevy's unavailablity during the all-star break? That's the tap on the nose the media can look forward to if they stop being PR flaks for True North.

All sorts of mazes. Amazing.




m.

Sorry to bring up an old thread. A friend of mine and I were discussing when a Free Press journalist was comparing the Whiteout with Nazi rallies. I believe Kives authored the column.

Can you really blame the Jets for shutting out the media? The last thing Winnipeg needs is hack journalists blasting the team for real or perceived faults. Jets players live life in a bubble as it is. Let's not stoop to Toronto-style scrutiny (i.e Steve Simmons).

 

[Hunter368]

Old thread bump, closed