HF Habs: Press Conference 15pm

[Cole Caulifield]

With your explanation, sounds like it's time to remove Max Pacioretty from this team, and keep Galchenyuk on a potential sweetheart deal while trading Max on one, that will expire very soon.

Drouin is a 22 year old playmaker. Galchenyuk is a 23 year old goal scorer. Why not keep these two together?

I've been saying we need to trade Pacioretty for a year or two. But at the same time we are in win now mode and 30 goals scorers at 4,5M are hard to pass up.

And I'm not saying we should trade Galchenyuk. We're talking about why Galchenyuk isn't being given Drouin's deal right now. I'd actually be interested in seeing Drouin on Galchenyuk's wing. But I'd prefer to trade Galchenyuk for equivalent value at center.

 

[Uwey]

What do you want me to say ? No I was joking ?

Dead serious Uwey. This is a message board so if you disagree you can use your little fingers and type why or get out but these "lol serious" type posts are pretty useless.

Okey then.


Drouin's NHL career thus far has been far more turbulant than Alex's.

Jonathan has been up & down from the minors, including a hold out. Plus JD has only had one remotely decent season thus far.

I will add, the Mooseheads are my hometown Q team & am a huge JD fan, but I believe you are selling Galchenyuk waaaaaaaaaaay short.

Alex was top ten in the league in points before he was injured this season. Hard for me to understand how you deem him regressing.

These two together, IMHO, could easily make magic together on the ice. Especially if you center them with a defense first, good face-off centerman like De La Rose. There would be no need for a high skilled center, but moreso a safe one who can skate with them & work the boards.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I've been saying we need to trade Pacioretty for a year or two. But at the same time we are in win now mode and 30 goals scorers at 4,5M are hard to pass up.

And I'm not saying we should trade Galchenyuk. We're talking about why Galchenyuk isn't being given Drouin's deal right now. I'd actually be interested in seeing Drouin on Galchenyuk's wing. But I'd prefer to trade Galchenyuk for equivalent value at center.

I believe Galchenyuk can surpass Paciorettys production. He has a lot more skill and has a great wrist shot. The time is now to trade Pacioretty.

As for Galchenyuk not deserving what Drouin got, I find that far fetched. Over the last 2 seasons Glachenyuk is top60 for points as a forward and top50 in goals scored. The top60 forward salaries are as low as 5.5M a season. With potential, since he is only 23, an agent can argue he is already earning his 5.5M and with potential can have more. I think having both Galchenyuk and Drouin on 5.5M deals would be amazing in 3-4 years when they may be pumping out 80 point seasons each (wishful thinking?).

Pacioretty is in fact even better, top10 in goals over the last two seasons and top20 in points. This means he will be looking for a huge raise. Top20 forwards are making at least 7M a season. This is why he must be traded. Not sure other GMs go on Hockey-reference and count that he has scored only 26 of his last 65 goals against playoff teams.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

LeBlanc was a bad pick. However, it is a development issue that he didn't make it as a 3rd liner based on where he was when he played in the NHL.

Tinordi was a bad pick. It was a development issue that he couldn't become at the least a bottom pairing PKer.

Beaulieu was a good pick. It was a development issue that he did not become a second pairing, second PP unit defenseman in Montreal.

Galchenyuk was a good pick. It has been a development issue at center since they played him at wing and didnt even play him on the wing he scores from the most.

McCarron is an OK pick. It's a development issue that he projects as a fourth liner instead of a 3rs liner now.

I can go on and on. Truth is, if most of your first round picks aren't meeting their FLOOR, you have a developmental problem.

I can't believe you actually believe any of this.

 

[Brainiac]

So... Bergevin hasn't spoke with Galchenyuk's agent yet? Sounds a little unprofessional. He's one of your top young guns and should deserve more consideration.

As some of us have been saying for months, this looks like the Subban treatment all over again. Galchenyuk is probably on his way out.

 

[BLONG7]

So... Bergevin hasn't spoke with Galchenyuk's agent yet? Sounds a little unprofessional. He's one of your top young guns and should deserve more consideration.

As some of us have been saying for months, this looks like the Subban treatment all over again. Galchenyuk is probably on his way out.

MB always seems so passive aggressive towards some of his players...why? Guy seems like he is in so far over his head...

 

[Runner77]

He gave Andrew Shaw 6X4...

Let's not kid ourselves, Bergevin is no genius. In any case, Brisson will have many ammunitions to command as much if not more. Not sure Drouin had that kind of leverage just yet.
And like others have mentioned, why can't we keep both?

Brisson already picked Bergevin's pockets with that DD extension. He'll school him with Galchenyuk unless somehow, Bergevin is able to obtain fair value for him via trade.

 

[habfaninvictoria]

I've been saying we need to trade Pacioretty for a year or two. But at the same time we are in win now mode and 30 goals scorers at 4,5M are hard to pass up.

And I'm not saying we should trade Galchenyuk. We're talking about why Galchenyuk isn't being given Drouin's deal right now. I'd actually be interested in seeing Drouin on Galchenyuk's wing. But I'd prefer to trade Galchenyuk for equivalent value at center.

A good executive would be looking ahead 2-3 years and looking at threats to keeping the team competitive and finding solutions today that make sense to mitigate those threats and set us up for success.

I don't think Patches ever raises the cup over his head here. We are 2 centre and a D away from being competitive. We have more than enough scoring on the wing, and if you look at the type of goals Patches scores ( cherry picking, off the rush and empty net )I don't think he's going to be very successful with CJ.

He's the perfect trade bait today to pick up a grade a prospect and a draft pick. We have some cap space to spare and with the relief he brings it will be valuable to another contender. Once this deal is up ... he's going to ask for 7 million plus term AT LEAST.

Trading Patches makes us worse ... in the extreme short term, but only marginally. There is no reason to believe that Galchenyuk, Drouin, and Radulov (gotta sign him) will get 30+ goals each, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Pleks should be around 20+ each .... and I'll take balanced scoring over 1 sniper any day. Look a couple years into the future when only Pleks is gone from that group and McCarron, Scherbak and whoever we get for Patches are ready to step up and we'll have truly elite scoring.

 

[Runner77]

Bergevin "I don't care about where a player got drafted, when you're 3/4/5 years into the NHL you are what you are, i evaluate players based on what they are now"

So why can't MB use the same approach with those he appoints in a management capacity? Where are their evaluations? All passed with flying colors I bet.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I can't believe you actually believe any of this.

I can't believe you don't.

I've monitored the AHL for a long time and Lefebvre is the absolute worst in terms of development, usage, putting players in a position to succeed and actually winning hockey games.

Here's a list of players Lefebvre has developed successfully.

Okay the list is done.

Guy Boucher made a god damn player out of Mathieu Darche.

A developmental coach who can't get one prospect to be a ****ing NHL plug in five seasons, is garbage.

 

[Whitesnake]

LeBlanc was a bad pick. However, it is a development issue that he didn't make it as a 3rd liner based on where he was when he played in the NHL.

Tinordi was a bad pick. It was a development issue that he couldn't become at the least a bottom pairing PKer.

Beaulieu was a good pick. It was a development issue that he did not become a second pairing, second PP unit defenseman in Montreal.

Galchenyuk was a good pick. It has been a development issue at center since they played him at wing and didnt even play him on the wing he scores from the most.

McCarron is an OK pick. It's a development issue that he projects as a fourth liner instead of a 3rs liner now.

I can go on and on. Truth is, if most of your first round picks aren't meeting their FLOOR, you have a developmental problem.

That is such a great post. Good job WTK.

 

[Habs Icing]

I can't believe you don't.

I've monitored the AHL for a long time and Lefebvre is the absolute worst in terms of development, usage, putting players in a position to succeed and actually winning hockey games.

Here's a list of players Lefebvre has developed successfully.

Okay the list is done.

Guy Boucher made a god damn player out of Mathieu Darche.

A developmental coach who can't get one prospect to be a ****ing NHL plug in five seasons, is garbage.

You're exaggerating to make a point. Beaulieu made the big show. Why isn't he better? I look at that player and I don't see a development issue. I see a character flaw. Andrighetto made it.

That's two more than you're ready to admit.

Now if two oe three of McCarron, Hudon, de la Rose and Sherbak make the Habs out of camp this October, will you revise your opinion? MB has stated a couple of times he's happy with Lernout's progress. That's five more prospects.

SL may not be a Guy Boucher but MB has been watching his work. Lapointe and Ramage have also watched him at work. Timmins is his boss. Dudley, Carriere and Mellanby are also in management. That's too many people who have NHL experience to be wrong in their evaluation.

My gut tells me this year and the following years we will see the fruits of this regime's efforts in player development: Hudon, Sherbak, McCarron, Lernout, de la Rose start to graduate to the NHL.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I've been saying we need to trade Pacioretty for a year or two. But at the same time we are in win now mode and 30 goals scorers at 4,5M are hard to pass up.

And I'm not saying we should trade Galchenyuk. We're talking about why Galchenyuk isn't being given Drouin's deal right now. I'd actually be interested in seeing Drouin on Galchenyuk's wing. But I'd prefer to trade Galchenyuk for equivalent value at center.

I keep getting lambasted for it, but if we are to move Galchenyuk for a center I would fully support moving him and a plus for Jeff Carter.

Biggest question regarding our lineup (assuming we can re-sign radulov): answered for the relevant time frame. Done. Fin.

Gallagher goes for an upgrade at LD.

 

[Habs Halifax]

LeBlanc was a bad pick. However, it is a development issue that he didn't make it as a 3rd liner based on where he was when he played in the NHL.

I agree Leblanc was a bad pick in the end. I don't agree how you blame development issues that he didn't make it. He couldn't even make it after he left the Habs organization.

Tinordi was a bad pick. It was a development issue that he couldn't become at the least a bottom pairing PKer.

I agree Tinordi was a bad pick in the end. I don't agree how you blame development issues that he didn't make it. He couldn't even make it after he left the Habs organization.

Beaulieu was a good pick. It was a development issue that he did not become a second pairing, second PP unit defenseman in Montreal.

We will see what Beaulieu can do with the Sabres. Will you be wrong again or right this time? Time will tell but you can't make your conclusions yet.

Galchenyuk was a good pick. It has been a development issue at center since they played him at wing and didnt even play him on the wing he scores from the most.

Galchenyuk has had his fair chance at center. I get how you feel he should stick there based on his offensive stats but you can't overlook the defensive problems. A center needs to play a 200' game. If you don't see this, your not being reasonable and making attempts at finding reasons to support "development issues with the Habs"

McCarron is an OK pick. It's a development issue that he projects as a fourth liner instead of a 3rs liner now.

MacCarron has been developed exactly how it was expected. He was drafted as a long term project. Just like Tinordi. Will he turn into a bust like Tinordi? We don't know yet. Once again, will you be wrong or right? Time will tell but you can't make your conclusions yet.

I can go on and on. Truth is, if most of your first round picks aren't meeting their FLOOR, you have a developmental problem.

I can go on and on about your massive attempts at creating reasons to blame development. You can only support players and challenge them. Development falls on the players to listen to the advice and work hard at improving their game.

No disrespect but I strongly feel that our "organizational development issues" are a creation from a bad 4 year span of drafting from 2008-2011. This has ripple effects and I feel we are just now starting to get past the consequences of this 5 years later. The "development issue" story will change but that takes time. Too many are pointing fingers and not looking at the big picture of the circumstances. Show me players that failed with the Habs but had success after they left the Habs? This would be better evidence of supporting "development Problems" IMO

 

[NotProkofievian]

I can go on and on about your massive attempts at creating reasons to blame development. You can only support players and challenge them. Development falls on the players to listen to the advice and work hard at improving their game.

Have you ever wondered how Finland, with a population roughly the size of Toronto and fewer registered minor hockey players than the GTA alone is even able to compete with Canada at any stage, nevermind the incredible performances they've been having recently?

Is it just because Finns are so vastly much more talented than Canadians that they only need a few tens of thousands of players to compete with the hundreds of thousands of Canadian players? Or is it possible that they're just getting way more out of the talent that they have?

Good development systems don't just allow players to succeed. In a very real sense, they manufacture talent.

How would rate our manufacturing process?

 

[David Suzuki]

We've reached peak revisionism in regards to Tinordi and Leblanc jesus Christ

 

[WeThreeKings]

You're exaggerating to make a point. Beaulieu made the big show. Why isn't he better? I look at that player and I don't see a development issue. I see a character flaw. Andrighetto made it.

That's two more than you're ready to admit.

Now if two oe three of McCarron, Hudon, de la Rose and Sherbak make the Habs out of camp this October, will you revise your opinion? MB has stated a couple of times he's happy with Lernout's progress. That's five more prospects.

SL may not be a Guy Boucher but MB has been watching his work. Lapointe and Ramage have also watched him at work. Timmins is his boss. Dudley, Carriere and Mellanby are also in management. That's too many people who have NHL experience to be wrong in their evaluation.

My gut tells me this year and the following years we will see the fruits of this regime's efforts in player development: Hudon, Sherbak, McCarron, Lernout, de la Rose start to graduate to the NHL.

Beaulieu made the show, cool.. but where is he? Gone for a 3rd round pick. He never met his potential and if he doesn't, we don't know if he stays in the NHL. It's hard to call him a success when his first AHL season looked a lot like his last.. and we didn't see a progression in his game UNTIL Gonchar mentored him. Looks like a development issue, to me, doesn't it to you?

Did Andrighetto make it? Because as far as I know, he never played a full season and was traded for one of the worst grinders the Habs have ever employed.

Hudon and DLR have to make the team out of camp, they aren't waiver free anymore. What will always be the SIGN of a developmental coach is what were they when they broke in and where are they now?

Look at Hudon's AHL production, is it really that much different since he broke in? Not really. And when the Habs were dying for offense, did they bring him in? No. So there had to be something in his entire AHL career that needed to be fixed and wasn't.

DLR? He looked great in the SHL.. but he's never developed into an every day player despite them playing him there in his rookie year at the NHL level. Doesn't really look like progress.

Let's look at a different story. Morgan Ellis. He looks great coming out of junior. Struggles in the AHL. He goes to the ECHL, he gets coached up and comes back on fire.

You can look at Lefebvre and his track record for 5 years. There isn't an every day player, there isn't an impact player and the AHL team has only made the play-offs once.. when they wouldnt have if the AHL didn't change play-off eligibility.

Under no metric is he good.

And if you believe he is and he was given turds to polish. Then be angry that the scouting staff hasn't changed.

You CAN'T believe in Lefebvre and support the scouting staff. You can't have it both ways here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Have you ever wondered how Finland, with a population roughly the size of Toronto and fewer registered minor hockey players than the GTA alone is even able to compete with Canada at any stage, nevermind the incredible performances they've been having recently?

Is it just because Finns are so vastly much more talented than Canadians that they only need a few tens of thousands of players to compete with the hundreds of thousands of Canadian players? Or is it possible that they're just getting way more out of the talent that they have?

Good development systems don't just allow players to succeed. In a very real sense, they manufacture talent.

How would rate our manufacturing process?

Your creating a whole new side debate here. There is a distinct difference between NHL drafting/developing vs developing as a Country. Countries don't draft their players.

- Habs have had lack of picks in the first 3 rounds of 2008-2011. They also had two bust in the 1st round (Tinordi and Leblanc). These 4 years have dictated our lack of successes and it takes a very long time to recover. 2012-2016 is a much better draft span for the Habs because we had more picks and more chances to hit potential NHL players. It's really that simple. The more picks you have in the top 100, the more chances you will have.

- NHL Players from Canada (about 50%). NHL players from Finland (about 3%). Population of Canada (35M). Population from Finland (5.5M). I'll let you do the math proportion comparisons

 

[yianik]

I agree Leblanc was a bad pick in the end. I don't agree how you blame development issues that he didn't make it. He couldn't even make it after he left the Habs organization.



I agree Tinordi was a bad pick in the end. I don't agree how you blame development issues that he didn't make it. He couldn't even make it after he left the Habs organization.



We will see what Beaulieu can do with the Sabres. Will you be wrong again or right this time? Time will tell but you can't make your conclusions yet.



Galchenyuk has had his fair chance at center. I get how you feel he should stick there based on his offensive stats but you can't overlook the defensive problems. A center needs to play a 200' game. If you don't see this, your not being reasonable and making attempts at finding reasons to support "development issues with the Habs"



MacCarron has been developed exactly how it was expected. He was drafted as a long term project. Just like Tinordi. Will he turn into a bust like Tinordi? We don't know yet. Once again, will you be wrong or right? Time will tell but you can't make your conclusions yet.



I can go on and on about your massive attempts at creating reasons to blame development. You can only support players and challenge them. Development falls on the players to listen to the advice and work hard at improving their game.

No disrespect but I strongly feel that our "organizational development issues" are a creation from a bad 4 year span of drafting from 2008-2011. This has ripple effects and I feel we are just now starting to get past the consequences of this 5 years later. The "development issue" story will change but that takes time. Too many are pointing fingers and not looking at the big picture of the circumstances. Show me players that failed with the Habs but had success after they left the Habs? This would be better evidence of supporting "development Problems" IMO

Problem with your last point is that if we messed up players development then it is unlikely they will do well with another team since they are now damaged goods.

I think you have to just see what has come out of the machine, which is not much and then say well we picked so many guys and how can so few have made it to the NHL and how are there not more guys that are top 6 forwards and top 4D.

If we had a good selection of players who bypassed the AHL because they came out of junior to the NHL ( like Galchenyuk ) or more likely, played in leagues overseas and landed NHL jobs ( like Lehkonen ), say 6 of 20 are regular NHLers, 3 of whom are top end, then maybe you can say it must be the AHL, but that is just not the case.

This has been really bad, maybe the only choice is to tear it all down and replace everyone. To me TT had credits given his previous great work, and so he had the benefit of the doubt, but those credits have run out.Sly has nothing to point to.

The only way TT and Sly may get rope from me is if I knew the answer to a question that will never be answered. That is, who figures out the criteria for BPA. Is it TT , or do others play a role ? I mean if MB says I want guys with CHaracter then maybe that goes from a 10% weighting to 20% importance. I want bigger guys, so size is from 5% to 10%. Which may require less importance on skating, skill etc.

TT has come out with the league changing since the Tinordi pick, focus on C's and offensive D men. Sounds like what BPA is has just changed. Who decided this. Though I do say about damn time.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I can't believe you don't.

I've monitored the AHL for a long time and Lefebvre is the absolute worst in terms of development, usage, putting players in a position to succeed and actually winning hockey games.

Here's a list of players Lefebvre has developed successfully.

Okay the list is done.

Guy Boucher made a god damn player out of Mathieu Darche.

A developmental coach who can't get one prospect to be a ****ing NHL plug in five seasons, is garbage.

 

[Habs]

Maybe we get lucky and MB announces his departure from the team?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Your creating a whole new side debate here. There is a distinct difference between NHL drafting/developing vs developing as a Country. Countries don't draft their players.

No, I'm presenting a counter argument.

Indeed, countries don't get to choose who's born there, or even who chooses to play hockey there. The input is essentially random, and certainly worse than inputs that you get to select yourself. In any case, here's what we have

(statistical input: talent) -------> [Development System] ------> Output

We get to observe only the output. What has that output been? The worst in the NHL, even when controlling for top 5 picks.

Now, unless you want to make the argument that Timmins et al are selecting worse than a random selection from an already self selecting system (the prospects at the top of the rankings are already biased towards being among the most talented in the entire world), talent is going into our development system.

Are you willing to make that argument?

- NHL Players from Canada (about 50%). NHL players from Finland (about 3%). Population of Canada (35M). Population from Finland (5.5M). I'll let you do the math proportion comparisons

The finns have been our equals at the last few U18s and U20s and they had the chance to be the first country ever (!) to win the triple gold. The times, they are a changing.