Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Icelevel, Jul 2, 2013.
I agree, those look great. Maybe even switch Michalek and Zibby. Either way.
i am in favour of either of these line combos. imagine if we still had gonchar and alfie...
To people saying "We can't pay Spezza on a long term contract because he has back problems, etc.", well who else would replace him anyway? Turris and Zibanejad are both good players but are not close to the skill level that Spezza brings to the table, they could be serviceable but are not star players. Sometimes you need to take a risk (aquiring Bobby Ryan is one we took recently) to get a star, and if that means taking Spezza over letting him walk I am all for it. Hell, the money we end up spending on Spezza would otherwise be unused or spent on an even more inflated UFA salary. As a resigning veteran (and possible captain) of the Senators, he may likely take a small discount to keep his salary reasonable compared to those getting handed out today (perhaps in line with his current salary, or maybe only a bit more).
yeah that should be around the sweet spot for line combos. little swap here and there. looks pretty good though
Turris and/or Zibanejad could conceivably do the job in 2 years time. They're not as skilled but who knows where their game will be at in 2 years time. Plus if the team is on a budget, Turris and Zibanejad may provide for "more bang for the buck" in management's eyes.
There are plenty of reasons not to re-sign Spezza.
1) The organization may not be able to fit him into their "budget" and still have room for others
2) Spezza's production will decline at some point. It's only a matter of when and how much/fast will he decline.
3) Uncertainty over his back problems
4) He may be holding Zibanejad back from a top-6 centre position role the team seems to want him in.
5) He may not even want to stay. If the team will be constantly limited by the budget he may choose to go to a cap team for a better shot at the cup.
The fact that Murray wants him to play centre tells me they are at least preparing for the possibility.
Personally I'm not interested in having a 38,39,40 year old Spezza on my team. How many players are still effective at that age. Unless we get an extremely friendly cap hit for that long of a term I'm not biting. There is no reason to suggest we lose him for nothing either, they will be talking about dollars/extension long before the trade deadline in 2015. Maybe that money does go to another over-inflated UFA, but as long as that UFA is in his mid to late 20's, I'm ok with it. Spezza's production will inevitably drop off as he approaches his late 30's, so unless he brings something else to the table we can't find in a younger version of him then unfortunately we might have to let him go. But that's 2 years from now, lots can happen between now and then.
I'm of the opinion that both Turris & Zibanejad have top line potential & I thought Turris proved it this past yr at only 23 yrs of age carrying this team to the 2nd round. Both will continue to get better each yr & in two yrs time BM will have a decision to make. I doubt they re-sign Spezza for 8 yrs, that is way too long for a player with a bad back who could be on the down side of his career. I would sign him for no more than 3 yrs but if the right offer came along, I would move him to improve elsewhere.
Although I agree that Spezza is likely to drop off in his late 30's, he still has many productive years ahead of him. You don't just look so far down the road and make your decision purely based on what might happen when he is so important to the team here and now. Guys like Spezza don't just grow on trees.
Plus by a GM's logic, he would rather rock in his star player then let him walk since it gives him a better chance at keeping his job in the long term.
Just remember HFBoards, 30 is not over the hill...
As for Turris and Zibanejad, I would rather have Spezza and see Zibanejad transition to wing. Sure we might be grooming him as a center as a contingency plan, but if we extend Spezza he will be on the wing. It would also give us the ability to trade Turris or Zibanejad in the future for help at another position if we need it.
I'd definitely go with option 1, play Greening with Spezza and give Turris 2 good wingers. You could also have Pageau in O'Brien's spot and just flip Smith/Pageau based on when/where the faceoff is taken.
At the end of the day teams rarely get to ice their theoretical best lines because someone is always injured ... but I'd be going with your first option with Pageau on the 4th
People talking about Greening/Michalek and even Zibanejad on the top line but watch out for Conacher.
He strived in Tampa with 2 stars he could do just as well here.
Could be a hammer line, a skill line and a **** line to play against.
Now I never added Pageau(As much as you all know I love him and I think he should be our 3rd line C) But these line combos are what I see if management are serious about keeping Zibanejad at center.
Althought I don't think Pageau will leave management with much comfort in sending him down and he may alter their minds, who knows.
A 1,5m contract wouldnt be that bad ,i'd offer one more year though. 6'5 offensive defense men are super rare . Ottawa has been very good at helping their players bulk up . It should also be noted that it takes a bit longer for dmen to develop and looking at his first year it looks like hes off to a great start . This may be a risky opinion but i bet wier becomes a better d man then Cowen . I dont really see your point in giving Wier a 2 way contract . LOL He was projected to be the one of the best if not the best defense men in the AHL. After 3 years he's clearly learned everything he can at that level and imo his development is better served with the big club. One last thing . Has anyone ever heard of a 6'5 offensive dman not turning into a more complete player as they gain experience . I cant think of one but if someone knows of a big dman who can only play offense please point it out .
I expect a contract similar to Condra 2 years 2.5 milish.
I'd like to see conacher on the right wing before i put zbad there, it'd give our organization more depth at the right side and give conacher more of a chance to succeed . I did not think Turris and Michalek worked well together at all and i'd rather just keep him with spezza since we know that they can preform well together. Greening-zbad/pageau-condra lines have proven to be an effective two way lines that can win possession in our zone and move the puck up ice . As for the forth line kassain steps in for heavyweight teams and pageau sits there as a back up to be moved around the line up depending on our need . I dont think pageau has fully earned the right to move any of the top 9 incumbents out of there spots .He'll have to prove himself through a larger sample size .I've found real difficulty in placing zbad in the line up as he's been protected from defensive draws and tougher lines . I'd like to see him in the top 6 but theres no room .Ideally i'd have MacArther playing on the third line with conacher on the LW of the second line and zbad on the RW but MacArther was promised top 6 mins . Another idea was putting smith on the wing and playing pageau as center but atm smith has proven to be reliable at his spot and i see no need to move him . Smith has also looked weaker when playing the wing in the past.
Some members of this fanbase are ridiculous. 'I personally don't want Spezza on my team.' You're following the wrong team. Also Turris nor Zibanejad will ever replace what a healthy Spezza brings. Not even close.
agree. which begs the question, why are we/they so committed to keeping zibanejad at center? unless the plan is to trade spezza or turris, z will be stuck at 3rd line center. and pageau on bingo forever?
Because rolling 3 lines that could potentially burn the opposition is huge. (See the Pens cup winning team. Sid-Geno-Staal)
ARed is right.
The NHL is moving away from the traditional structure of:
Scoring Line 1
Scoring Line 2
Checking Line 1
Energy Line 1
to more of a:
Scoring Line 1 (Balanced)
Scoring Line 2 (Balanced)
Scoring Line 3 (Balanced)
Checking/Energy Line 1
That's what a lot of teams are going to, and I think Ottawa is in a really good spot to be able to ice an effective top 9 that can score.
Pretty much this. Having two good depth centres like Turris and Zibanejad as well as having someone like Pageau or Lazar who can play centre as well is conducive to having a dangerous line on the ice at all times as well as having depth to deal with injury.
But we don't know if Spezza is healthy do we? He missed almost the entire season because of his back & had back surgery, I would say that is pretty serious. Then he had issues with his knee which again could be worrisome, so we don't know how healthy he will be going into next season nor how long he will last. We hope for the best but he could be damaged goods, he may never return to form, who knows.
That being said, we are lucky to have two good centres behind him in Turris who led the team in scoring during the regular season & playoffs. And Zibanejad who BM thinks could also be a dynamic centre for this team long term. I would also argue that they may be closer than you think, no one knows how good they could get, including you, it's just your opinion that you don't think they will, we'll see.
Isn't the sens organization grooming turris to be a spezza replacement for whenever spezza does leave the team?
I think that the organization rewards Hoffman for his play the last few years and give him a shot out of training camp - Pageau gets sent back down to Bingo to get some big minutes.
Pageau is going to be very good IMO but he wasn't even a top line player in Bingo last year and sort of got called up by default with some of the injuries down on the farm. He has a 2 way and can benefit from being a go-to guy with Bingo and I fully expect that to be the case to start the season. So, here is how I envision the roster for game 1:
Ryan / Spezza / Michalek
MacArthur / Turris / Hoffman
Conacher / Zibby / Greening
Condra / Smith / Neil
Methot / Karlsson
Cowen / Gryba
Wier / Philips
The next generation will have another very good year in the AHL and will go deep in the play-offs setting the stage for another group of Bingo boys to mature and grow together.
Things are going to get real interesting over the next couple of years as Stone, Prince, Pageau, Ceci, etc...show they are capable of NHL minutes.
This is how the elite teams do it. Forget top 6 and bottom 6, now top 9 and an energy forth line. We have the forwards to do this !!
Yeah, the talent pool is growing where teams can support 3 scoring lines again. I think the older format was due to teams adjusting to rapid expansion and shallower talent pools.
Which probably means the NHL will expand again and we'll be back to 2 scoring lines and 2 non-scoring lines before long.
I like this, and I think the real fight in camp will be for that RW spot on the second line. I would keep Greening on the left side and move Conacher to the right side on that third line.
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