Line Combos: Present Future

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Icelevel, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Hammertyme

    Hammertyme Registered User

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    Surprise!!! I dont like weak ineffective defensemen in the d zone. He has enough offensive talent. Never this season will PW play a regular role as a right d man(except PP). If you think so you really have no concept of the game. I like Boro but he is a left shot. I say Wiercioch comes out of camp as a #7 d man and I bet his contract will reflect this.
     
  2. Day Man

    Day Man Fighter of the night man, champion of the sun

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    I guess people were covering their ears when Murray said Wiercioch is taking Gonchar's spot in the line up.
     
  3. ErikKarlsson

    ErikKarlsson The Best (per IOC)

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    Wiercioch was on the ice for 13 goals against in 42 games (659 TOI)

    Benoit was on the ice for 21 GA in 33 games (541 TOI)

    Gryba was on the ice for 25 GA in 33 games (669 TOI)

    Come again??

    I'd really love for you to come up with a real argument instead of me repeatedly telling you how the stats say the complete opposite of everything you say against Wiercioch.
     
  4. Hammertyme

    Hammertyme Registered User

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    Level of competition. Wiercioch NEVER saw a home game against the other teams top lines. Say what you want, mark my word it will not happen if Mclean is coaching.
     
  5. ATdaisuki

    ATdaisuki Registered User Sponsor

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    so, absolutely no chance he'll improve after 42 games of experience?

    i'm kinda with you on where he was last season. he was really weak along the boards. couldn't win a puck battle to save his life. his stick work wasn't bad though. not great, but not bad.

    having gonchar one more year would have really benefited wiercioch (and the team) in my opinion. having one of the greatest offensive defensemen to touch the ice the last 10 years to mentor wier would have been great for the present and the future.

    that being said, i'm sure he got some tips before gonch left, and there's always karlsson to help him (though karlsson plays a completely different brand of offensive hockey. i think plays a style closer to what wier does/will). if wier comes into camp as bad as he was defensively, i wouldn't be against pairing him with methot to shelter him and putting cowen with karlsson. i think he'll come back better defensively. no reason to think he won't. especially with how well he was doing in the ahl. two way dominant force.
     
  6. burgess1978

    burgess1978 Registered User

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    If any lefty is playing the right side it will be Phillips. Cowen, Karlsson, Methot and Phillips will play every game. Everyone else will rotate as needed and Phillips will play left or right depending on who else is scratched.
     
  7. Hammertyme

    Hammertyme Registered User

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    McLean will play the best players who are playing at the time. He only has one goal and that is to win. It doesn't matter who plays as long as it gives them the best chance of winning. Just watch the players TOI to see who he thinks is playing better. By saying that someone will play over someone else is barely even speculation. It will be game to game week to week. If Corvo comes in and nets 1.5 ppg, and is solid defensively, and Cowen struggles... you think that Corvo doesn't move up in the rotation. I hope Wiercioch comes in and plays excellent defence, plays two way physical hockey and earns the even strength icetime. I just don't think he has yet. His offensive game is not in question at all he has that ability.
    I just don't see anyone playing the offside as a d man in regular play. It is extremely difficult. Very few can do it effectively. Gonchar was OK but often missed plays that an actual right dman would have made. For one it is very hard to pick up a hard rimmed puck or poke check a player along the boards..both very important defensive skills.
    PW might play second line if they partner him with a right d man and to me it would have to be Methot and I don't see that happening.
     
  8. Tampacuseforever

    Tampacuseforever Registered User

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    Well I'm glad it's not your decision because the number one pick we just gave Anaheim, would be a lottery pick. But look at the bright side, instead of being the second biggest team in the league we could be the first be a LARGE margin !!!
     
  9. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    The concept of the game? lol, you think you REALLY understand it?

    You're the type of hockey fan that believes a team has to be built with only tall/huge physical players

    But in reality, a hockey team is like a food recipe, you need a good blend of everything with the right proportions. Of course, if the Sens had 3-4 players like Wiercioch on their defense, that would be disastrous but it's not the case. Cowen, Methot and Gryba are huge and physical, Phillips isn't scared of anyone too. Karlsson is too fast to be catched and Wiercioch is still learning how to play in the NHL. Not a big problem, he's 6'5 and over 200 lbs. He just has to continue to grow in his body, get stronger and learn how to use his body at the NHL level

    Erik Karlsson is not physical and not very strong, is that a big problem? Lidstrom wasn't physical as well.

    Physical play is just a part of the game, there's also a PUCK you know.

    Wiercioch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Borowiecki

    And it's not even remotely close. Please.

    :laugh:

    He said he doesn't like weak ineffective defensemen. He should remove "ineffective" at least, particularly if you consider the offense that Wiercioch manufactured.
     
  10. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    twss

    So Wiercioch had easier minutes than Gryba. Gryba got scored on twice as much. It cancels out.

    Wiercioch not facing many top lines in his rookie season is not indicative of the rest of his career. Players improve, and that includes Wiercioch. MacLean is aware of this. Wiercioch has top 4 potential easily.
     
  11. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    Conacher-Spezza-Ryan
    MacArthur-Turris-Michalek
    Greening-Pageau-Condra
    Smith-Zibanejad-Neil

    Think i want to see this for a game or 2. The last 2 lines would have to split time or play whichever is flying.
     
  12. Sensinitis

    Sensinitis Registered User

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    Nah, we gotta put Zibanejad in a position to succeed offensively, not Couturier him.
     
  13. Hale The Villain

    Hale The Villain Registered User

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    Placing Zibanejad alongside Smith and Neil is just asking for a disappointing season. The kid has a ton of talent and it should not be wasted playing with offensively challenged grinders. The 3rd line is the lowest line he should be on, and preferable on that 3rd line he would not be playing with Greening and Condra.
     
  14. McManked

    McManked Ooh to be a Gooner

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    You know what?

    I'm actually really intrigued by Xspyrit's idea of putting Zibanejad on the wing with Spezza and Ryan. I doubt it happens considering the organization is probably looking at playing Zibanejad at center, but if there's struggles at some point in the season I'd hope they'd try it out.

    Not only would it give Zibanejad a much better chance to contribute offensively, to me he's the perfect fit for what that third linemate should be on that line. I'd like Zibanejad there a lot more than Michalek.

    In fact, I'm kind of liking the thought of Zibanejad on the wing in the top 6. I'm guessing he'll be slotted as our 3rd line C though. Still, food for thought:

    FORWARDS
    Cory Conacher ($0.925m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
    Milan Michalek ($4.333m) / Kyle Turris ($3.500m) / Mika Zibanejad ($1.744m)
    Colin Greening ($0.817m) / Jean-Gabriel Pageau ($0.613m) / Clarke MacArthur ($3.250m)
    Erik Condra ($1.250m) / Zack Smith ($1.888m) / Chris Neil ($1.900m)
    Matt Kassian ($0.575m) / Jim O'Brien ($0.638m) /
    DEFENSEMEN
    Marc Methot ($3.000m) / Erik Karlsson ($6.500m)
    Jared Cowen ($3.500m) / Patrick Wiercioch ($1.350m)
    Chris Phillips ($3.083m) / Eric Gryba ($0.563m)
    Joe Corvo ($0.900m) /
    GOALTENDERS
    Craig Anderson ($3.188m)
    Robin Lehner ($0.870m)
    OTHER
    Buyout: Bobby Butler ($0.200m)
    ------
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
    SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,685,833; BONUSES: $850,000
    CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $8,464,167

    I'm also really torn on this Corvo signing. While I like it as a low risk potentially medium reward player, I feel like he really limits what we can do on defence in the sense that you can't put him with Phillips IMO.

    I really like that top 6.
     
  15. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    i agree with that. i'd like to see him in the top 6 by the end of the season. there are no spots with macarthur and conacher up there. one of them will drop to the fourth line? or pageau goes back to bingo and zib plays 3C?
     
  16. Day Man

    Day Man Fighter of the night man, champion of the sun

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    That top 6 is beautiful
     
  17. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    don't think that's how things will start
     
  18. Iggy77

    Iggy77 Registered User

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    They seem to want to develop Zibanejad as a centre not a winger.

    With Spezza hitting UFA status in 2 years they might want Zib as a potential replacement(or Turris with Zib taking over #2C).

    Spezza would demand a big 8-year contract and giving such a contract to a 32-year old with a history of back problems might not be the smartest thing to do despite his talent.

    I am sure they will be watching Spezza and Zibanejad closely over the next two years.
     
  19. McManked

    McManked Ooh to be a Gooner

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    I don't agree with you.

    I think he'd demand a 7 year on the open market, but I'd think he'd be open to the idea of something around a 5 year contract worth 37.5 million if things stay where they are.
     
  20. Iggy77

    Iggy77 Registered User

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    Perhaps. They still might be better off giving 8 years to spread the money/cap hit over that period with the expectation that he'll retire before age 40. Unlikely his back will hold up that long.

    But it's still $7M+ to a guy who may be on the IR a lot and for a player who will start declining at some point, not to mention he may be holding Zibanejad back(depending on how he progresses). A lot of things can happen in the next two years, you can't really say much right now.

    I am a big Spezza fan and hope he stays but they definitely have to weigh the pros and cons on this, especially if "budget" will still be a major obstacle two years from now.
     
  21. McManked

    McManked Ooh to be a Gooner

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    Don't think Melnyk would be too keen on the recapture stuff if Spezza had to retire at 35.
     
  22. Iggy77

    Iggy77 Registered User

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    Doesn't that recapture penalty only apply to contracts signed under the old CBA?

    You can still front load contracts just not to the ridiculous extent they were doing it before the lockout but it's still an advantage.
     
  23. McManked

    McManked Ooh to be a Gooner

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    I think you could see something like

    9 - 8 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 = 39 / 6 years
     
  24. Othello*

    Othello* Guest

    Conacher-Spezza-Ryan
    MacArthur-Turris-Michalek
    Greening-Zibanajad-Pageau
    Condra-Smith-neil

    We could run with three scoring lines. The third line you could mix up by switching Zibanajad to the wing and pageau to center.
     
  25. IranCondraAffair

    IranCondraAffair Registered User

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    From the looks of the team's assembly, they might be moving back to the 3 scoring line formation they had in the early 2000's. The team plays a puck possession style and that focuses on winning face-offs. Turris has gone from being mediocre to becoming a very good faceoff man. Spezza was already great, and Smith is excellent. The only weakness would be Zibanjead who was below average and Pageau who was average. Here's what we know thus far:

    1. Murray suggested MacArthur would be playing with a "Turris type" centre. (He said so in an interview)
    2. Michalek plays mostly right wing these days (Both Michalek and the team have said he prefers it.)
    3. Murray stated he acquired Ryan to be a top line player, which means he's likely going to be the top line RW.
    4. MacLean liked playing Greening with Spezza in the past, but has stayed away from that last year.
    5. MacLean didn't make any attempt to pair Conacher with Spezza during the playoffs and there's be no suggestions from management that Conacher is anywhere close to a full-time top-6 role.
    6. Smith - Neil is an almost inseparable combination.
    7. Murray has expressly stated they want Zibanejad as a centre.

    At the end of the day the roster actually comes down to Pageau. Sure, Pageau had a great playoffs, but he still has years of eligibility and might not be ready. If management sees him as a long term center, I think it forces Zibanejad to wing. There's really no question about it. The team has three "set" centers and Zibanejad sin't going back to Bingo so that means either Pageau plays in the AHL or Zibanejad plays on the Wing.

    My current guess for next season assuming Zibanejad stays at centre and Pageau goes back to Bingo:

    Greening - Spezza - Ryan (1st line)
    MacArthur - Turris - Michalek (2A)
    Conacher - Zibanejad - Condra (2B)
    O'Brien - Smith - Neil (Checking)

    My guess if they keep Pageau up and finally move Zibanejad to wing:

    Michalek - Spezza - Ryan (Our three best forwards on the same line)
    MacArthur Turris -Zibanjead (Mac with Turris and Ziba in a top-6 role)
    Greening - Pageau - Condra (Was pretty good in the playoffs.)
    Conacher - Smith - Neil (People are going to HATE playing Conacher Smith Neil. Underrated offense too)

    Personally, I like the idea of keep Pageau up in the NHL if they can. That second line set looks amazing.
     

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