deca guard
Registered User
yzermans preparing razz and aa for future roles on this team . that developmental work is more important than slightly improving this seasons record
GDT: Preseason Game 9 : WINGS at leafs 7:00 pm et (NHLN)
- Thread starter lgrwmike
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Gniwder
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That works for Raz, but locking AA into a winger spot is actually a step backwards for him.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Because he cannot unless glendening is on his line playing actual defensive center. AA is a winger.
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I thought the AA center stuff was done after last season.
Let the kid be a transition winger, he's great at it.
Let the kid be a transition winger, he's great at it.
He can play center in emergencies, but he plays best at wing (or wide-out).
Gniwder
Registered User
Glendening, Nielsen both played 2nd line center significantly better than Athanasiou....because Athanasiou doesn’t play center. Put whatever letter you want next to his name, but nothing will change. Maximize his potential by letting him play winger and not pretend that he will adopt strong defensive tendencies.
I haven't seen Filppula play a regular season game in a Wing's uniform in quite a few years. but he was pretty good two way center.
Steve Yzerlland
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- Jul 18, 2018
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Yzerman and Blashill agree! Only the fans are pushing for this.....Jesus.
Gniwder
Registered User
You can combine Nielsen and LGD's point totals, and they still won't add up to an average 2C in the league. If you want to watch the team lose game 5-0 every time, that would be a great alternative.
Quite frankly, I'd like to see the team score even if they're going to lose. AA being out of the line-up makes this a one line team, and he looked just fine as 2C the last 10 games of last season
Blashill is back to killing offense by sticking a defensive player on every line, this team will be boring to watch again. Given the roster selections, I think the best 2nd line would be Erne-AA-Hirose.
He wasn’t playing center, that’s the point.
you can put whatever position you want next to him, but a center doesn’t blow the defensive zone with each and every single loose puck looking for a break. You can let AA be a “center” if you want, but it’s going to require a player like
Nielsen, Helm, or Glendening on his wing to do the actual work of a center while AA plays wing.
Gniwder
Registered User
Some of the most famous centers in history were cherry pickers, Gretzky was the worst of them all.
Also, defensive role depends on the system, it's not a requirement for it to be the center. You're talking about a team that made the left wing lock famous.
If the role depends on the system, how the hell does AA playing center or wing make a difference in his ceiling whatsoever? You made it seem like AA has more value at center, but if you are openly admitting that position doesn’t matter, does it matter where you line him up?
Gniwder
Registered User
Because it determines his linemates. AA-Flip-Hirose looks pretty soft, whereas Erne would add a little more physical presence. Svech would add more scoring. AA at center allows more flexibility, they can even put LGD on the wing in tight games. That line didn't look too bad last season, LGD was better than Helm.
At the end of last season, Blash said he wanted speed up the middle, now we're back to playing a defensive shell game. It's boring hockey to watch considering the team has issues scoring.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
MBH
Players Play
That's why they got Flip.
Larkin-Flip-Nielsen-Glendog
One day soon
Larkin-Veleno-Ras-whoever.
Steve Yzerlland
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vladdy16
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- Aug 2, 2005
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I dont think I ever implied that there have not been many moments that have shown Blashills inexperience or ineptitude over the years.
Funny that you mention players being banged up. The coach mentioned how it happened last year, and that it was just an anomaly and there was nothing that he could do about it. Strange how history repeated.
I honestly dont get it. It's clear that chemistry, timing, health, etc, etc is an issue heading into game 1. Thats a gigantic failure.
And pretending that we needed to get looks at lines of ECHL players and career griffins is disingenuous and dismissive. Honestly being so far off base here, should be making you question what exactly was going on instead.
vladdy16
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It feels like you are leading to a strawman, but... Turner Elson.
More to my point though,
Elson
Ford
Puempel
Kuffner
Turgeon
McIlrath
Pearson
MacLeod
Loggins
Lashoff
Even more to my point though,
Nielson- 2 GP, 0pts, 1 SOG
Helm- 3 GP, 0pts, -3
Dekeyser- 2 GP, 0 pts
Green and Hronek- 3 GP, -4
Glendenning- 3 GP, 2 SOG
Abdelkader- 2 GP
Filppula- 3 GP, -1
Daley- 3 GP, -2
AA- 1 GP
Larkin- 2 GP
None of those players were involved in a competition for playing time, or involved in building timing and chemistry, and they will all be contributing to our record in a week. I think that's concerning, and a sign of poor planning/leadership.
I've qualified my position multiple times, by admitting that the week off is an uncommon circumstance, and I'll gladly eat crow AND adjust my impressions of the coach, if a week of hard practice knocks the rust off Larkin, and we look like a hockey team and not a collection of over the hills, misfits and mercenaries.
Oh so the Griffins players that played. No ECHLers, I strawman tho? Turner Elson hasn't played in the ECHL in 5 years and he's not going to the Walleye right now.
Again I think this was a different type of training camp, you heard A LOT of players talking about it in interviews. They were saying it was a lot different than previous years and they were being pushed harder. They wanted to get a look at a lot of their wares and they did. You can say that it's a bad idea but I think it was evaluation of our system in a year our team is going to suck. You think it was dumb but maybe our GM thought evaluating our players was smart. I certainly won't say it exposed Blashill as a fraud, it was preseason hockey, this is what happens in preseason hockey.
Again I think this was a different type of training camp, you heard A LOT of players talking about it in interviews. They were saying it was a lot different than previous years and they were being pushed harder. They wanted to get a look at a lot of their wares and they did. You can say that it's a bad idea but I think it was evaluation of our system in a year our team is going to suck. You think it was dumb but maybe our GM thought evaluating our players was smart. I certainly won't say it exposed Blashill as a fraud, it was preseason hockey, this is what happens in preseason hockey.
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vladdy16
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Yes, Strawman. Using a hyperbole I used for clarity, to condense and misrepresent my argument instead.
You've yet to support your argument. You're saying that not playing roster players was a strategy to get a better look at our prospects. How is playing at a disadvantage, with non-roster players, preferable to evaluating our prospects in a more realistic scenario? How would playing Puempel less, hurt Veleno or Rasmussen?
I don't think evaluating our players is dumb. I'm not arguing against that in the least. I think we should've spent more time evaluating 43,8,83,61,70, etc etc.
There is a lot of value in the young guys holding down the fort going against the grain this preseason. I don't have many issues with how they were used for the majority of the preseason.
But explaining the philosophy behind how the over 23's and non-NHL ever players were deployed is more difficult. Haphazard and dismissive of the value of preseason games is how I see it.
I don't see how you could disagree that it makes this week of practice incredibly important. If Larkin comes out in Game 1, and plays tic tac toe with 39 and 21 all game long, then I will use the red flag that I'm currently throwing as an example of when I didn't trust the coach and he came through. If Larkin looks like his head is spinning, trying to predict/catch up to the play, I think it would be fair to say that our poor preseason cost us regular season success. I think it is clear that the coach is leveraging his week of practice, over exhibition games. We will see how it plays out soon enough.
There is no certainty in predicting the future, especially from an uninformed position like ours. That's why it's important to me to go out on a limb to check the weather. Right now, my limb is that the coach is and has been out of his league, and he's not progressing at a rate that makes me think he's not an overall detriment. It's not based only on the last few weeks, it's not based on limited criteria, and it's not a knee jerk reaction I have sometimes. I'm simply not a fan, in-game, birds eye, or on the mic. It's an impression I'm consistently open to changing, and I'm simply saying that relative to that, I'm more pessimistic about the near future than usual.
My position is go around the league and look how much hockey NHL regulars played and then talk about why you care so much that Blashill deployed his players the same. You're complaining that a bunch of our veterans played 3 preseason games, as well as an injured player only playing 1. I'm going team by team and am not seeing a single player that plays top 6 or top 4 playing more than 3-4 games.
Jon Cooper had Luke Witkowski out there for 6 games of preseason. Is he a fraud?
Jon Cooper had Luke Witkowski out there for 6 games of preseason. Is he a fraud?
vladdy16
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That's a reasonable position. So is following this preseason, day in and day out, and being suspicious as to the caliber of our coach and team at the end.
I don't follow the Lightning close enough to have an opinion on Cooper. I think in this day an age, a coaches job security comes down to how many variables he can prove he is controlling day to day, as opposed to how things are being maximized generally and tactically. A lot of coaches from this era are more replaceable than other eras imo.
As for Witkowski, I think it's fair to say that his presence can be an injury deterrent. Cholowski's carrying the team at end of the preseason would be an example of an injury risk imo.
The Red Wings and Lightning, should have drastically different priorities this preseason.
I've already talked at length about why I care so much.
A) competition- I'm not convinced that half of the 'NHL regulars' on our team, should be. The preseason is generally a good place for that to get sorted. If we start 1-4-1 and Helm gets scratched for the 7th game, wouldn't it stand to reason that had someone had the chance to win his job earlier, we might've started better than 1-4-1?
B) Timing- We are a bad, one line team. There is no carryover chemistry, no established special teams units, etc etc. For the sake of our record, imo, the 9 games needed to be used to build more momentum/chemistry then I believe we have currently.
C) I'm also complaining about the injuries themselves. A lot of talk about how much work the players do in the offseason, and after basically the first day, we have 3 of our most athletic players injured, when the coach admitted that the same thing happened last year, and he wasn't going to change anything and wasn't expecting it to happen again. Could be a coincidence. Could be haphazard and dismissive. You could frame it like I'm really biased and reaching, but I hope you don't, because I'm not saying it is what happened. But it is consistent with my premise.
My position is, that I was incredibly excited for this year of hockey, in DET and GR. After the pre-season, the NHL team is in a far worse position than I would've imagined a team that was trying to be competitive would be. I think it's easy to say, 'that's what rebuilding looks like'. I think there are a lot of examples of teams in sports history, that by "rebuilding", they mean "steering into a long term sustainable branding solution", where onfield success becomes relatively obscured and arbitrary.
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