GDT: Preseason Game 5 WINGS at isle 7:00 pm et

[ShanahanMan]

I swear I’m trying really really hard to look on the bright side with Zadina but he just looks so out of of place. Loses the puck constantly, gives it away, can’t clear the zone, holds on too long and puts himself in a corner, gets beaten to the puck, pushed off the puck easily .......it’s just not clicking for him. I really hope he gets out of this rut but I’m starting to wondering if it’s event a rut at all...

 

[Claypool]

I swear I’m trying really really hard to look on the bright side with Zadina but he just looks so out of of place. Loses the puck constantly, gives it away, can’t clear the zone, holds on too long and puts himself in a corner, gets beaten to the puck, pushed off the puck easily .......it’s just not clicking for him. I really hope he gets out of this rut but I’m starting to wondering if it’s event a rut at all...

Yep. Doesn't look like he's even close to being NHL ready. Not a great skater, average speed, too weak with the puck. He needs to have a big year in Grand Rapids this season or the clock starts ticking on his future in Detroit, unfortunately.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

Brutal last 5 mins & OT from the entire team except Howard.. but disagree that Zadina is deserving of all the extra scorn. He holds on to the puck to allow Rasmussen to change, then overestimates his strength trying to use the net to his advantage and gets forced off the puck.. it's not the end of the world.. I'm glad that he has the confidence to try and make something happen.. isn't this what preseason is for?

Kaski and DLR (multiple times), made far worse plays in that 3v3.

here's the play in question for those that didn't have a chance to watch the game.


bonus clip Zadina almost sets up Veleno with his favorite move.

 

[RedWingzz]

I think there are 3 major issues with Zadina at the moment:

1) This one is obvious, he is holding onto the puck for too long, and trying things that worked for him in the Q. You have less time and space in the NHL, and players are all bigger and faster. There isn't enough time to dangle.

2) He is having trouble finding open space. He does have an insane release, but he's having a hard time getting open to be able to use this release.

3) Confidence. There is none right now. He needs to score a couple, and find his confidence. He needs to get 1st line minutes and top PP time in GR in order to regain his confidence.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He tried that fancy move today... the behind-the-back deke. And it literally bought him no space.

He 100% bought him space, he opened a passing lane. If you watch the play back, you can see the defense begin to close the gap, possibly expecting a drop pass to Givani Smith trailing Zadina. At the point where he finishes stick handling the puck through his legs, he has the positioning to make a centering pass to Veleno that was covered well by the second defenseman. Not a play at all that I would be critical of.

 

[izlez]

bonus clip Zadina almost sets up Veleno with his favorite move.

Alternative title: Zadina turns it over in style

 

[Henkka]

I wouldn't mind seeing Hronek or Bowey playing the left half board, set up like Ovechkin. Both have decent slappers. Green is accustomed to setting up righty shots.

Yeah, maybe they could open more PP slots for defencemen going like this.

 

[MBH]

That one-timer by Svech was wicked.
limited backswing. whipped it in before the goalie could get down.
If Zadina scored that, this thread would be non-stop about it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That one-timer by Svech was wicked.
limited backswing. whipped it in before the goalie could get down.
If Zadina scored that, this thread would be non-stop about it.

You mean if Zadina did something really good after he has looked very bad during the preseason people would be excited?

I mean, yeah. If you are trying to play this off as Zadina getting favorable treatment on here, you should probably check the last couple pages.

 

[Konnan511]

You mean if Zadina did something really good after he has looked very bad during the preseason people would be excited?

I mean, yeah. If you are trying to play this off as Zadina getting favorable treatment on here, you should probably check the last couple pages.

Heck, check after the first summer training camp day, that's when the Zadina hate started to really snowball. But I understand where his ditractors are coming from, he truly is the worst 19 year old DRW prospect we have.

 

[MBH]

You mean if Zadina did something really good after he has looked very bad during the preseason people would be excited?

I mean, yeah. If you are trying to play this off as Zadina getting favorable treatment on here, you should probably check the last couple pages.

Sorry if I'm misunderstood here.
I'm saying, where's the excitement for Svech? He's been largely written off. He's a first round pick himself.
I thought he had a solid game, outside of two shifts.
Was physical. Worked the boards. Took it to the net. Had a great goal.

I've never been a giant Svech fan and didn't like that pick. But I don't want him to be a zero. We're a rebuilding team. Zadina isn't ready. Ras looks like he's going to play C in GR. If we don't find room for Svech this year, it only gets tougher next year.

 

[MBH]

Heck, check after the first summer training camp day, that's when the Zadina hate started to really snowball. But I understand where his ditractors are coming from, he truly is the worst 19 year old DRW prospect we have.

Ah, sarcasm against attitudes that don't exist.

How many posters on this Red Wings board "hate Zadina" in your estimation?

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I think there are 3 major issues with Zadina at the moment:

1) This one is obvious, he is holding onto the puck for too long, and trying things that worked for him in the Q. You have less time and space in the NHL, and players are all bigger and faster. There isn't enough time to dangle.

2) He is having trouble finding open space. He does have an insane release, but he's having a hard time getting open to be able to use this release.

3) Confidence. There is none right now. He needs to score a couple, and find his confidence. He needs to get 1st line minutes and top PP time in GR in order to regain his confidence.

#3 has everything to do with the other two. Once he gets one and the pressure is off he’ll be fine. This panic station stuff is ridiculous.

 

[MBH]

i disagree . putting him out there against guys he cant physically match up with is the last thing he needs for both his health and his confidence . hes a soft pretty boy of huge talent that thrived on talent all along in europe but against the n american big boys cant function . ide never try forcing him when theres absolutely zero reason for it . if im yzerman i come out and say ive decided he needs time to harden his body up for the nhl so im putting him on a slow development speed and dont plan on bringing him up to the nhl this season as in the first place hes only a teenager

So he gets his confidence playing on a big rink against guys who don't hit and comes back, and has no room on the small rink against guys who hit.

The other thing is this.

We've got a lot of youth to install in the next 24 months.
Zadina. Veleno. Svechnikov. Rasmussen. Maybe Berggren. Maybe Smith. Maybe whoever we draft in round one this year. And that's just at forward.
Nobody's going to start a season with 4 rookie forwards. Or even 3 rookie forwards.

So having these guys in Grand Rapids and using mid-season callups to get these guys the time they need can help us manage the youth installation, so we aren't going into an October trying to install 4 rookies at once.

The same thing is true on defense.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Zadina needs to learn the game against men and in an NHL sized rink. Period. If he can't learn it in the AHL he won't ever learn it.

 

[Winger98]

Sorry if I'm misunderstood here.
I'm saying, where's the excitement for Svech? He's been largely written off. He's a first round pick himself.
I thought he had a solid game, outside of two shifts.
Was physical. Worked the boards. Took it to the net. Had a great goal.

I've never been a giant Svech fan and didn't like that pick. But I don't want him to be a zero. We're a rebuilding team. Zadina isn't ready. Ras looks like he's going to play C in GR. If we don't find room for Svech this year, it only gets tougher next year.

as you bring up later, it'll be mid-season call-up. Some guys will get hurt, some guys will (continue to) decline, and others are just replaceable guys who could be moved down or out of the lineup with a shrug. Then the same thing could be done next year as we start next season with whoever got the mid-season call-ups this season.

 

[Winger98]

Zadina needs to learn the game against men and in an NHL sized rink. Period. If he can't learn it in the AHL he won't ever learn it.

I'm not sure why folks are worried about him not learning it. The guy's 19, I don't think he's crazy far away from the NHL now, and I think it's clear he's out there working and trying, and he's not being outright stupid out there the way Brendan Smith could be from time to time.

 

[MBH]

I'm not sure why folks are worried about him not learning it. The guy's 19, I don't think he's crazy far away from the NHL now, and I think it's clear he's out there working and trying, and he's not being outright stupid out there the way Brendan Smith could be from time to time.

Well, his OT work last night was pretty stupid. But we've seen virtually all of our young guys do stuff like that.
But yeah, I think he's going to be an NHLer.
The question is, how good?

 

[MBH]

as you bring up later, it'll be mid-season call-up. Some guys will get hurt, some guys will (continue to) decline, and others are just replaceable guys who could be moved down or out of the lineup with a shrug. Then the same thing could be done next year as we start next season with whoever got the mid-season call-ups this season.

That's why the Erne signing bugged me.
I figured we would start this year with two of Hirose, Ras, Svech and Zadina on the wing.
Work them in, and over the next 12 months, work in the other two.
Adding Erne puts another obstacle out there.
Ras moving to C, if it works, might cancel that out.

 

[Winger98]

Well, his OT work last night was pretty stupid. But we've seen virtually all of our young guys do stuff like that.
But yeah, I think he's going to be an NHLer.
The question is, how good?

I can excuse young players doing stupid young player things, unless they never learn from it. Smith could elevate his level of stupid to crazy heights at times, though. And he never seemed to learn. \
Watching Zadina, he reminds me a bit of Ray Whitney. I don't know why, but that's who pops into my head the most when I watch Zadina right now.

That's why the Erne signing bugged me.
I figured we would start this year with two of Hirose, Ras, Svech and Zadina on the wing.
Work them in, and over the next 12 months, work in the other two.
Adding Erne puts another obstacle out there.
Ras moving to C, if it works, might cancel that out.

I didn't really get the Erne thing, either. Not sure why we wouldn't have wanted a pick in that situation instead. Nothing against Erne, but I just don't see a whole lot of special about him. Even if the guys expected to compete for the top6 aren't ready, the system has enough guys to cover that spot in the mean time. I guess Yzerman either really likes Erne or really doesn't like the other options in Detroit. Or he did TB a favor and is looking to have it returned down the line if they have to move someone. Which is possible, too.

 

[Konnan511]

I can excuse young players doing stupid young player things, unless they never learn from it. Smith could elevate his level of stupid to crazy heights at times, though. And he never seemed to learn. \
Watching Zadina, he reminds me a bit of Ray Whitney. I don't know why, but that's who pops into my head the most when I watch Zadina right now.



I didn't really get the Erne thing, either. Not sure why we wouldn't have wanted a pick in that situation instead. Nothing against Erne, but I just don't see a whole lot of special about him. Even if the guys expected to compete for the top6 aren't ready, the system has enough guys to cover that spot in the mean time. I guess Yzerman either really likes Erne or really doesn't like the other options in Detroit. Or he did TB a favor and is looking to have it returned down the line if they have to move someone. Which is possible, too.

If Zadina become Ray Whitney then we hit a homerun with that pick.

 

[Ricelund]

If Zadina become Ray Whitney then we hit a homerun with that pick.

 

[Gniwder]

I didn't really get the Erne thing, either. Not sure why we wouldn't have wanted a pick in that situation instead. Nothing against Erne, but I just don't see a whole lot of special about him. Even if the guys expected to compete for the top6 aren't ready, the system has enough guys to cover that spot in the mean time. I guess Yzerman either really likes Erne or really doesn't like the other options in Detroit. Or he did TB a favor and is looking to have it returned down the line if they have to move someone. Which is possible, too.

It was a 4th round pick. 4th rounders are complete hit or miss.

Erne is NHL ready, most of the prospects aren't. If they become better players than Erne, he'll get dropped down to 4th line or pressbox. I think Stevie signed him with the intention of sending Veleno, Raz, Zadina, and Svech down to GR. Even with the Erne playing on the third line, there's still an open roster spot for third line RW.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I can excuse young players doing stupid young player things, unless they never learn from it. Smith could elevate his level of stupid to crazy heights at times, though. And he never seemed to learn. \
Watching Zadina, he reminds me a bit of Ray Whitney. I don't know why, but that's who pops into my head the most when I watch Zadina right now.



I didn't really get the Erne thing, either. Not sure why we wouldn't have wanted a pick in that situation instead. Nothing against Erne, but I just don't see a whole lot of special about him. Even if the guys expected to compete for the top6 aren't ready, the system has enough guys to cover that spot in the mean time. I guess Yzerman either really likes Erne or really doesn't like the other options in Detroit. Or he did TB a favor and is looking to have it returned down the line if they have to move someone. Which is possible, too.

Erne brings another heavy F1 forechecker to the system so we don't have to rely on Helm and Abdelkader up the lineup. He should get opportunity in front of them mercifully, so for that reason alone I am excited by his presence on the roster.

 

[MBH]

Yep. Doesn't look like he's even close to being NHL ready. Not a great skater, average speed, too weak with the puck. He needs to have a big year in Grand Rapids this season or the clock starts ticking on his future in Detroit, unfortunately.

I want progress - the more the better, obviously.
But even if, God forbid, he pulls a Svechnikov and goes backwards, you still have to hope he finds a way to pull it together. If our first round picks can't be home runs, they can still be singles and doubles.