GDT: Preseason Game 4 at Pittsburgh 3:00 PM

[Pavels Dog]

4-0 in the preseason. Since I am jumping on the wings bandwagon I get the sense there aren't many spots open. Which makes little sense given last year. Sounds like Holland is very old school but seems to lately like to the word 'rebuild'.

So what I see is a bunch of young guys who should make the team but might not because of politics/contracts. I have to believe that Sulak and Cholowski make the team right? That should really help the D.

Up front how many spots are there open? Ras appears to be a lock. Zadina AND Veleno going to join him? Hope so. Kinda wild to watch a changing of the guard.

There are a decent number of spots open, certainly more than in past years. 2 spots for sure up front, 2 on D until Green returns. So that’s Rasmussen + Zadina/Svechnikov (Veleno remains an outsider) and some combination of Sulak/Hronek/Cholowski/Hicketts.

During the course of the season we’ll likely see additional room being made. There will be a big youth movement this year.

 

[SCD]

When I watch Rasmussen, elite does not come to mind.

But, you can't deny he is productive. That is his karma.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Veleno definitely looks like he is ready for the big show, although there is probably no room for him. He has already played 4 seasons in the Q, I can't see a 5th year being very beneficial for someone who looks like hes already playing a pro game.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's cases like this that really make the CHL-AHL deal really harmful to the development to some players.

 

[cjm502]

Yeah, you're probably right. It's cases like this that really make the CHL-AHL deal really harmful to the development to some players.

I have said it a few times before but feel like teams should be allowed an exception each year. Even give them one exception to use every other year. It could help an unbelievable amount of players development, but I'm sure the CHL has absolutely zero interest in losing top talent. I definitely think there has to be a better way to go about this situation though.

 

[masta8]

Rasmussen keeps producing. What is it now, 6 goals in 8 preseason games? Hard to ask for much more.

I definitely like Cholo more than Sulak, and would rate him ahead of Hronek as well. Another solid showing.

Athanasiou looks hungry this preseason, and Larkin+Mantha started waking up here. Veleno keeps quietly impressing.

A lot to like.

Well said.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

If Tiger Woods can win again, the Red Wings will be great again!

Go Lions

 

[Claypool]

I have said it a few times before but feel like teams should be allowed an exception each year. Even give them one exception to use every other year. It could help an unbelievable amount of players development, but I'm sure the CHL has absolutely zero interest in losing top talent. I definitely think there has to be a better way to go about this situation though.

The CHL Is a gate-driven business that produces the most NHL draft picks every season. I'd argue having more 18/19 year olds going up against full grown men in the AHL every night could hurt their development long term than their own age group. Most aren't physically ready for it and I can't think of any specific player that would have benefited from going to the AHL early.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

The CHL Is a gate-driven business that produces the most NHL draft picks every season. I'd argue having more 18/19 year olds going up against full grown men in the AHL every night could hurt their development long term than their own age group. Most aren't physically ready for it and I can't think of any specific player that would have benefited from going to the AHL early.

Dan Cleary

 

[lilidk]

Only Sulak and Rasmussen NHL ready. Next year I guess we will have at least 4 Rockies, not bad at all. Be patient

 

[TheMule93]

Only Sulak and Rasmussen NHL ready. Next year I guess we will have at least 4 Rockies, not bad at all. Be patient

I think svech and veleno also have looked nhl ready

 

[Syckle78]

I think svech and veleno also have looked nhl ready

Svech should be a given its time to sink or swim for him. Glad to see him producing. Think people were writing him off a bit premature due to injuries early in his development but there's still a chance homeboy turns into someone really good.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

When I watch Rasmussen, elite does not come to mind.

But, you can't deny he is productive. That is his karma.

Ya, he was never really picked because of elite potential though.

He was picked because 6' 6" 220 pound hockey players with his skill set are damn near unicorns in the hockey world.

 

[lilidk]

I think svech and veleno also have looked nhl ready

I guess Svechnikov already NHL, and Veleno is but give him 1 more year at AHL and let him and Zadina play at the end of the season with main club

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I guess Svechnikov already NHL, and Veleno is but give him 1 more year at AHL and let him and Zadina play at the end of the season with main club

Veleno can't play in the AHL.

 

[lilidk]

Veleno can't play in the AHL.

if he is at juniors can wings bring him for couple of games?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

if he is at juniors can wings bring him for couple of games?

Happened with Pastranak, just unlikely that it'd happen until near the end of the season.

Realistically, if Veleno is in juniors at season start, he'll probably be there all year.

 

[newfy]

if he is at juniors can wings bring him for couple of games?

Only in extreme circumstances which wont happen to the wings this year. Players have been called from junior in the past in an emergency, and I think its usually goalies when the team cant get a third goalie to the game but they have a junior drafted goalie nearby. I want to say it happened with Steve Mason or someone like that back when they were in junior.

Once Veleno is sent down you wont see him in Detroit. Hes played well but so have a lot of other forwards. If Svech keeps playing like he is, he'll deserve a call up before Veleno. Expect to see Zadina called up first too

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I know I am very much in the minority here, but I see zero harm in another season of junior hockey for Veleno. He has been absolutely great this summer and camp and has consistently exceeded my expectations. That being said, he had a really, really hard time scoring in juniors for a first-round pick and has plenty of room to improve in that department (and not just his shot). He is already a super responsible player who plays a very mature game so he does not strike me as the sort of player who will develop poor habits. Just give him a ton of ice time to figure out how to better read the play in the offensive zone and put himself in a position to score more. In my opinion that is the highest and best use of his D+1 season.

Even if you send him back to juniors, he will still be in a position to compete for an NHL job out of camp next year.

 

[sully6one]

Someone explain how you guys think Sulak is better than Cholowski? When Sulak doesn’t have space he turns the puck over, his defense is very iffy, he looks good only because he has wheels, look closely at him next game. Cholowski makes the right play whether it be a D to D or stretch pass, he’s made some mistakes as well, but they’re less costly than Sulak. Sulak is out there trying to join the rush when we don’t even have the puck a couple occasions. Saarijarvi looks better than Sulak.

 

[Flowah]

Obviously can't read too much into preseason, but it's looking to me like this might be the year he breaks out

I still don't see much reason for excitement for his play in the defensive zone but you can't deny he knows where to be and what to do offensively.

His turnover to Malkin on the delayed call, his general lack of aggressiveness and getting the puck back on forechecks/defensively make me sad.

Maybe my expectations for him are too high. I want him to be a complete player. I feel like his skillset is there. Maybe it's a lack of hockey IQ/sense. Hopefully it's just inexperience.

But hey we need goalscorers too I guess.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I know I am very much in the minority here, but I see zero harm in another season of junior hockey for Veleno. He has been absolutely great this summer and camp and has consistently exceeded my expectations. That being said, he had a really, really hard time scoring in juniors for a first-round pick and has plenty of room to improve in that department (and not just his shot). He is already a super responsible player who plays a very mature game so he does not strike me as the sort of player who will develop poor habits. Just give him a ton of ice time to figure out how to better read the play in the offensive zone and put himself in a position to score more. In my opinion that is the highest and best use of his D+1 season.

Even if you send him back to juniors, he will still be in a position to compete for an NHL job out of camp next year.

So 1.23 ppg is now a really really hard time scoring? He doubled up Foudy in ppg who was picked 12 spots a head of him. Scored .35 more PPG than Dellandrea who was drafted 17 spots earlier. .28ppg ahead of Hayton who was drafted 25 spots higher than him.

 

[izlez]

Someone explain how you guys think Sulak is better than Cholowski? When Sulak doesn’t have space he turns the puck over, his defense is very iffy, he looks good only because he has wheels, look closely at him next game. Cholowski makes the right play whether it be a D to D or stretch pass, he’s made some mistakes as well, but they’re less costly than Sulak. Sulak is out there trying to join the rush when we don’t even have the puck a couple occasions. Saarijarvi looks better than Sulak.

I think you're probably don't like what Sulak has done in the preseason as much as most people do, but I think you're also misinterpreting the argument from most people.

Sulak gets NHL time before Cholowski because he's 24 years old and our window with him is small. We need to throw him in and see if he can handle the NHL pretty much right away. We can take our time with Cholowski and it could potentially be beneficial to get him some bigger minutes in a lower professional league.

 

[izlez]

That being said, he had a really, really hard time scoring in juniors for a first-round pick and has plenty of room to improve in that department (and not just his shot).

I have no issues with him going back to the Q next year... but his numbers are still right in line when compared to the other guys drafted from the CHL last year.

Barrett Hayton - 63GP 21G
Ty Dellandrea - 67GP 27G
Liam Foudy - 65 GP 24G
Joe Veleno - 64GP 22G


Then of course, you can easily see how Veleno was better in the 2nd half of the season and when on a better team, but you don't even need to do that, his season was good

 

[sully6one]

I think you're probably don't like what Sulak has done in the preseason as much as most people do, but I think you're also misinterpreting the argument from most people.

Sulak gets NHL time before Cholowski because he's 24 years old and our window with him is small. We need to throw him in and see if he can handle the NHL pretty much right away. We can take our time with Cholowski and it could potentially be beneficial to get him some bigger minutes in a lower professional league.

I’ve thought Cholowski has looked the best and he looks NHL ready for 2PP and 2PK time, that’s close to 20 minutes a night if not 20. I think Cholowski surprises a lot of people around the NHL like Parayko did a couple years back. Also Jensen was 26 if I remember correctly when he made the NHL even though I don’t think he’s a NHL caliber dman.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have no issues with him going back to the Q next year... but his numbers are still right in line when compared to the other guys drafted from the CHL last year.

Barrett Hayton - 63GP 21G
Ty Dellandrea - 67GP 27G
Liam Foudy - 65 GP 24G
Joe Veleno - 64GP 22G


Then of course, you can easily see how Veleno was better in the 2nd half of the season and when on a better team, but you don't even need to do that, his season was good

Let me re-phrase it this way: his draft-year goal scoring suggests that you should not expect him to score a lot of goals at the NHL level (which further suggests he will end up further down the lineup at the NHL level). Your comparison is telling me his goal production stacks up favorably with other first-round picks with limited offensive upside. None of those guys are touted as being gifted offensive players or sure-fire top-six forwards. Perhaps it is all just a matter of perception though.